Is the game DEAD?

[TTVTheShadySaiyan]

just wanted yalls thought since i dont really see many players

[ah_puch]

Nguyên văn bởi Tyrian Mollusk:

Because they're not great at their job

Everyone knows that lol

Nguyên văn bởi Tyrian Mollusk:

and it was fixed eventually.

No it wasn't. They increased the map capacity a little bit but players expressed maps were still empty.

Nguyên văn bởi Tyrian Mollusk:

I always see people around when I'm there. Sure, EoD was obviously the worst and least valuable of the three expansions, but don't grind that axe down to a stick.

It was a disaster for the company in so many ways. I mean the results speak for themselves. 2,356 playing on Steam, veteran players with linked accounts included. It's likely much lower than even 2k. Though, not bad for a small indie mmo in maintenance mode.

EoD has decimated the company, so many layoffs, content droughts and throwing the towel after lying about 2022 being the best year ever and finally admitting their studio is so small now, they won't be able to even produce full living world stories or full expansions ever again. No new elite specs either but granted, EoD elite specs were really lazy and bad compared to older ones. I wouldn't want whoever designed EoD elites to design any more specs. Gyala delves like low effort maps for $20 in the future, big yikes.

The game would be in a much better state if they didn't lie and come clean about where they stood. Instead, they are still digging their heads in the sand and talk about "many things are coming" when nothing is coming and they don't even have a lead system designer to make anything happen. No community manager, no ceo. Just an empty building with low level devs performing basic maintenance and importing outsourced gem shop items which they can't even make themselves. So sad how far this game has fallen from grace.

[AuldWolf]

I always felt like it was an excuse. "We changed how instancing works, oops!" The thing is? It's still not a lot better, and like I've said recently, their new player retention is terrible.

They just aren't listening to players, that's the problem.

There are so many telling them that they keep ignoring average players to appease those who only want difficult, grindy content. They brought back Colin Johanson, the man who almost sank ArenaNet with Heart of Thorns by making it too grindy! It was so bad they had to rush to fix it and write a public letter of apology about it. And they brought him back!

The kind of content they're creating just isn't what most want, and how they're implementing things (locking them behind grindwalls and punishing content, like they initially did with the turtle) is only alienating players even more. They don't bloody listen and it's very frustrating.

A lot of us have been telling them that they either need to accelerate new players into End of Dragons automatically or fix the new player experience! The old world isn't a good look. It's way too grindy, it just isn't as fun as the newer stuff (by a country mile), and it's buggy and poorly maintained!

I feel like Path of Fire was the height of GW2 for most. The open world events were all really silly and fun, the mounts were great fun to explore with and find all kinds of secrets, and the story was actually really interesting. If they could recapture that magic, Guild Wars 2 would really be something.

Instead, they keep chasing after the Heart of Thorns crowd, one that wants grindy and punishing content. The problem is? That's a vanishingly small crowd because there was a certain... masochism to Heart of Thorns. It was no-lifer territory. The grind for the weapon skins for most elite specs was... ridiculous.

The thing is? After Path of Fire, it was right back to the crazy grind with LWS4 and the Skyscale. One thing they could do right now is greatly reduce the Skyscale grind to make it more accessible to new players and improve the new player experience.

Will they?

Of course they won't.

And that's why new player retention is almost zero, and MAUs keep dropping. ArenaNet really needs to consider their fetish for grind and rushing out the latest new content without fixing the old stuff, or I'm not sure this game has much of a future.

Which is very frustrating as a GW2 fan.

[ah_puch]

Exactly, their previous formula of living world + expac + living world was perfect for this game. Seeing open world as this game's biggest strength and attraction, introducing mounts with PoF was a perfect addition to open world. Even the raptor trial for new players was a great decision.

They just did not know what to make of their own game and got confused, old devs left, new devs didn't know what game they were even working on and the end result is this mess the game is in since IBS.

They couldn't even put together a simple strategy of launching EoD related dlc right after EoD. Focusing on living world 1 and steam launch has wiped out the entire studio as they lost old players because of long content droughts, couldn't attract new ones because of paywalls. Nobody cared about living world 1 and the steam launch was a colossal failure with only 8k peak and couldn't even hold on to that.

Now the studio is traumatized by their bad decisions and timing. Grass isn't always greener on the other side. Perhaps they thought they would get tons more new players from steam who would all fall in love with the living world 1 or something? Reality hit hard, there weren't tons of people and they didn't fall in love with living world 1. It's a free game on Steam that has only 3k players.

They would be lucky to figure out how to even get out of this mess since they've already wasted half of this year and got nothing but a very mediocre unfinished map. Tyria needs a revolution.

[Plüschtiger]

Nguyên văn bởi ah_puch:

Exactly, their previous formula of living world + expac + living world was perfect for this game. Seeing open world as this game's biggest strength and attraction, introducing mounts with PoF was a perfect addition for open world.

They just did not know what to make of their own game and got confused, old devs left, new devs didn't know what game they were even working on and the end result is this mess the game is in since IBS.

They couldn't even put together a simple strategy of launching EoD related dlc right after EoD. Focusing on living world 1 and steam launch has wiped out the entire studio as they lost old players because of long content droughts, couldn't attract new ones because of paywalls. Nobody cared about living world 1 and the steam launch was a colossal failure with only 8k peak and couldn't even hold on to that.

Now the studio is traumatized by their bad decisions and timing. Grass isn't always greener on the other side. Perhaps they thought they would get tons more new players from steam who would all fall in love with the living world 1 or something? Reality hit hard, there weren't tons of people and they didn't fall in love with living world 1. It's a free game on Steam that has only 3k players.

They would be lucky to figure out how to even get out of this mess since they've already wasted half of this year and got nothing but a very mediocre unfinished map?

Anet thought there would be a lot of new players coming to steam, I would even believe so. If there were new ones at Anet, then it's not too surprising what happened there. Check out other MMOs as publishers join. Thanks to the publisher, the standard procedure is then introduced "Squeeze everything out of the game that is possible and then drop it before it costs money". Even if Anet doesn't allow all that, new and depending on the area in which the work is being done, they now know nothing more than the F2P rip-off mechanics. I played Knight Shift again days ago, the game is a good 20 years old, you can see the difference to today's games immediately.

Yes, maybe you can really say that GW2 is dead, but not in relation to the number of players, but in relation to what it used to be or actually wanted to be. For me GW2 is not for nothing too standard MMO in many things. Since Anet relies on grind, it's clear what it's about, harvesting the whales that have money and making them happy and if Anet has to sell the soul of the game for it. But if GW2 is too standard, then it's no better than the competition and doesn't stand out either. (translated)

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Nguyên văn bởi AuldWolf:

I always felt like it was an excuse. "We changed how instancing works, oops!" The thing is? It's still not a lot better, and like I've said recently, their new player retention is terrible.

They just aren't listening to players, that's the problem.

There are so many telling them that they keep ignoring average players to appease those who only want difficult, grindy content. They brought back Colin Johanson, the man who almost sank ArenaNet with Heart of Thorns by making it too grindy! It was so bad they had to rush to fix it and write a public letter of apology about it. And they brought him back!

The kind of content they're creating just isn't what most want, and how they're implementing things (locking them behind grindwalls and punishing content, like they initially did with the turtle) is only alienating players even more. They don't bloody listen and it's very frustrating.

A lot of us have been telling them that they either need to accelerate new players into End of Dragons automatically or fix the new player experience! The old world isn't a good look. It's way too grindy, it just isn't as fun as the newer stuff (by a country mile), and it's buggy and poorly maintained!

I feel like Path of Fire was the height of GW2 for most. The open world events were all really silly and fun, the mounts were great fun to explore with and find all kinds of secrets, and the story was actually really interesting. If they could recapture that magic, Guild Wars 2 would really be something.

Instead, they keep chasing after the Heart of Thorns crowd, one that wants grindy and punishing content. The problem is? That's a vanishingly small crowd because there was a certain... masochism to Heart of Thorns. It was no-lifer territory. The grind for the weapon skins for most elite specs was... ridiculous.

The thing is? After Path of Fire, it was right back to the crazy grind with LWS4 and the Skyscale. One thing they could do right now is greatly reduce the Skyscale grind to make it more accessible to new players and improve the new player experience.

Will they?

Of course they won't.

And that's why new player retention is almost zero, and MAUs keep dropping. ArenaNet really needs to consider their fetish for grind and rushing out the latest new content without fixing the old stuff, or I'm not sure this game has much of a future.

Which is very frustrating as a GW2 fan.

Your comments about "grindy, punishing content" are delusional and false. Moreover, they already DID greatly reduce the grind for Skyscale; the only reason it takes a few days currently is due to the remaining timegates. They've been updating and improving the new player experience. Apart from a few admittedly annoying bugs with some events in the "core" world, which are very slow to fix due to the degree of spaghetti code a game this old has, just about everything you've said here is just completely wrong.

[Tahl]

Nguyên văn bởi Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Nguyên văn bởi AuldWolf:

I always felt like it was an excuse. "We changed how instancing works, oops!" The thing is? It's still not a lot better, and like I've said recently, their new player retention is terrible.

They just aren't listening to players, that's the problem.

There are so many telling them that they keep ignoring average players to appease those who only want difficult, grindy content. They brought back Colin Johanson, the man who almost sank ArenaNet with Heart of Thorns by making it too grindy! It was so bad they had to rush to fix it and write a public letter of apology about it. And they brought him back!

The kind of content they're creating just isn't what most want, and how they're implementing things (locking them behind grindwalls and punishing content, like they initially did with the turtle) is only alienating players even more. They don't bloody listen and it's very frustrating.

A lot of us have been telling them that they either need to accelerate new players into End of Dragons automatically or fix the new player experience! The old world isn't a good look. It's way too grindy, it just isn't as fun as the newer stuff (by a country mile), and it's buggy and poorly maintained!

I feel like Path of Fire was the height of GW2 for most. The open world events were all really silly and fun, the mounts were great fun to explore with and find all kinds of secrets, and the story was actually really interesting. If they could recapture that magic, Guild Wars 2 would really be something.

Instead, they keep chasing after the Heart of Thorns crowd, one that wants grindy and punishing content. The problem is? That's a vanishingly small crowd because there was a certain... masochism to Heart of Thorns. It was no-lifer territory. The grind for the weapon skins for most elite specs was... ridiculous.

The thing is? After Path of Fire, it was right back to the crazy grind with LWS4 and the Skyscale. One thing they could do right now is greatly reduce the Skyscale grind to make it more accessible to new players and improve the new player experience.

Will they?

Of course they won't.

And that's why new player retention is almost zero, and MAUs keep dropping. ArenaNet really needs to consider their fetish for grind and rushing out the latest new content without fixing the old stuff, or I'm not sure this game has much of a future.

Which is very frustrating as a GW2 fan.

Your comments about "grindy, punishing content" are delusional and false. Moreover, they already DID greatly reduce the grind for Skyscale; the only reason it takes a few days currently is due to the remaining timegates. They've been updating and improving the new player experience. Apart from a few admittedly annoying bugs with some events in the "core" world, which are very slow to fix due to the degree of spaghetti code a game this old has, just about everything you've said here is just completely wrong.

I mean that person kept saying/suggesting that less grind = more player retention.
I feel like that is something someone would only say if they were joking or had never played anything but CoD before... an older CoD, cause even the newer ones have grind afaik... Lol.

Stretching out content with grind is the exact thing very successful games in these genres do to increase player retention. BDO, warframe, Warcraft, FFfurteen, Warframe, etc.
GW2 has some long term goals but as far as gatekeeping actual content goes, it is the single least grindy MMO Iv ever seen let alone played.
Someone could make a valid criticism that it doesnt actually have enough grind to incentivise those daily logins. Id personally argue that is the point but, at least that framing would be accurate.

[ah_puch]

Then you haven't seen or played many mmos. Everyone knows WvW is the only real content since the devs have abandoned pve a long time ago. Ironically, WvW the only real content in this game is also in maintenance mode.

But since you mentioned it's it is the single least grindy MMO you've ever seen let alone played, it's a bit strange you have to grind for warclaw in order to not fall behind in WvW. Both of these cannot be right at the same time, either you don't need to grind for warclaw and you won't fall behind without it OR it's in fact NOT the least grindy mmo you've ever seen let alone played. Unless you've only ever played GW2 that is, which is sadly true for the majority of GW2 players.

They only play GW2 and nothing else. With such limited scope, anything they say about "the other mmos" should be taken with a grain of salt. Someone even claimed GW2's leveling and story was "best in the business" when they didn't even know anything about other games to make such comparisons. Even the floaty tab target combat with skill cooldowns and weapon swapping and pve tactics like stacking in melee range with buff spamming are inferior to many, many other mmos. It's not a coincidence currently another mmo with "combat bad" has 80% more players playing.

[yivya]

Nguyên văn bởi ah_puch:

[...] when they didn't even know anything about other games to make such comparisons.

That's called having a life outside of games and forums, unlike some people. Can't know 'em all. But having grown up with MMOs offers a well enough picture.

[DarkSlayer197]

Nguyên văn bởi yivya:

Nguyên văn bởi ah_puch:

[...] when they didn't even know anything about other games to make such comparisons.

That's called having a life outside of games and forums, unlike some people. Can't know 'em all. But having grown up with MMOs offers a well enough picture.

Reading his claims, an hour or two to unlock the Warclaw is somehow very grindy...

I really feel like he is projecting hard.

[ah_puch]

Nguyên văn bởi yivya:

That's called having a life outside of games and forums, unlike some people. Can't know 'em all. But having grown up with MMOs offers a well enough picture.

So mmo gamers have no life? It's correlated to total hours played, has nothing to do with knowing more than one game. A GW2 fan with 10000 hours will still have an embarrasinly low scope of vision compared to someone who has 2000 in GW2, 2000 in another, 2000 in another. Actually it makes the GW2 fan the no lifer, on top of that no experience or perspective. Such one dimensional perspectives give birth to hilarious posts like "Why doesn't GW2 make the lists of 100 greatest games of all time?" ;)

Nguyên văn bởi DarkSlayer197:

Reading his claims, an hour or two to unlock the Warclaw is somehow very grindy...

Apperantly it is, there have been no new interest for the game even with the steam launch. People just aren't interested. I'm sure they will change their minds once you show them the ways of unlocking a warclaw though.

[yivya]

Nguyên văn bởi ah_puch:

So mmo gamers have no life? It's correlated to total hours played, has nothing to do with knowing more than one game. A GW2 fan with 10000 hours will still have an embarrasinly low scope of vision compared to someone who has 2000 in GW2, 2000 in another, 2000 in another. Actually it makes the GW2 fan the no lifer, on top of that no experience or perspective. Such one dimensional perspectives give birth to hilarious posts like "Why doesn't GW2 make the lists of 100 greatest games of all time?" ;)

Whatever you say bucko.

[Tyrian Mollusk]

Nguyên văn bởi ah_puch:

Everyone knows WvW is the only real content since the devs have abandoned pve a long time ago.

Said no honest player ever in the history of GW2.

PvE abandoned and WvW the "real content"? Go on, pull the other leg, it's got bells on.

[DarkSlayer197]

Nguyên văn bởi ah_puch:

Apperantly it is, there have been no new interest for the game even with the steam launch. People just aren't interested. I'm sure they will change their minds once you show them the ways of unlocking a warclaw though.

Considering getting the Warclaw is straight forward and easy with the achievement literally telling you what to do? The longest part is the reward track. Which at that point all you do is play WvW.

[Plüschtiger]

Nguyên văn bởi DarkSlayer197:

Nguyên văn bởi ah_puch:

Apperantly it is, there have been no new interest for the game even with the steam launch. People just aren't interested. I'm sure they will change their minds once you show them the ways of unlocking a warclaw though.

Considering getting the Warclaw is straight forward and easy with the achievement literally telling you what to do? The longest part is the reward track. Which at that point all you do is play WvW.

Unfortunately, none of this is of any use to anyone if they don't have PoF. Without PoF, you only get a new book with each page. How many times do you die just to find the pieces of the book? How long does it take just to find the parts, WITHOUT a wiki? Don't forget the gold. How much does the warclaw cost? 1 gold? 8 gold? The guild skin only 200 gold + 1 reward track.

When does it start to grind for you? From 20, 50, 100, 1000 hours? Trade ratios 25:1 charged quartz, 250:1 clockwork, 1000:1 event currency and so on, nothing special in GW2. Not to forget the quaggan, who always begs us at events. He just wants our hard-earned Zeikarize, luck, or whatever event currency is. You can't even get past the Gind when it comes to professions, it takes forever. You don't get the slightest thing without collecting achievements, only to then get something soulbound or a part for the wrong class, but luckily yes soulbound. Let's call the game by its name, Grind Soulbound Wars 2.
It might be something else if Anet didn't demand to buy some crap from countless NPCs for the achievements. Crap that you'll never need and often can't disassemble either, the main thing is that you spend karma, gold, or something else. (translated)

PS: We are now on page 12.

[Tuathaqin]

Some people here play a very different game from what I play... Very different, indeed.