New Expansion Looks Desperate...

[Larry]

I've been playing GW2 since it launched, thoroughly enjoyed Elementalist from the start of the game. The animations were, and still are, top of their game(Elementalist Meteor animations are so damn good) but in the last few years the game, it's narrative and the locations it explores have been going down hill.

The base game is great. It embodies everything GW2 was all about: Exploration, narrative, group content without forcing you to be in a group and it felt like a proper massively multiplayer online role playing game. The jumping puzzles, boss fights, story, characters(While some hit or miss); it was great. Each zone was interesting and had it's own story to tell. It was great!

Heart of Thorns came out and it was a bit of a stinker. This was mainly because it veered far away from traditional methods of play where you would play through an entire zone and move onto the next. In HoT it was designed so you would come back to each zone to finish it off a couple of days or even weeks later when you unlocked specific abilities. Usually beating the expansion would net you enough experience to unlock much needed abilities to traverse the HoT areas which made playing through on a second character much more enjoyable. They shot themselves in the foot here because it ticked a lot of people off based on first impressions. Still, it was a good expansion in my opinion with the caveat being it was good after your first time through and is still a very good expansion to come back to for events even now eight years later.

Path of Fire was excellent. The story, the progress, the mounts to unlock, revisiting old areas from GW1 and adding a bit more lore to it. All great! Plus the mounts really added a new layer onto the base game and each expansion. Too much good to say about this but, contrary to HoT, in my opinion it was only really enjoyable to play through once unlike the base game and HoT.

Then there was the latest expansion,End of Dragons... End of Dragons is a slog to play through. The characters are insufferable and ones that were entertaining have either taken a back seat(Canach, Taimi who they slowly made uninteresting and unlikable through living seasons) and some who they just flat out removed never to be heard from again(Logan for one). The setting is boring, the story is bad, the new characters are uninteresting and the main villain is annoying not to mention they basically turn the bad guys into "good" guys because they're "misunderstood." That in itself has basically killed off any interest in the plot.

Living seasons were interesting at first especially the living seasons after PAth of Fire as they added genuinely interesting large areas with a lot of cool things to do and reason to play through them(Skyscale for instance), however... Living Seasons were just an excuse to pad out the lengthy time between expansions.

So, what did they do? They announced they were removing living seasons and bringing us expansions more frequently by... calling living seasons expansions and charging us €25 for two zones and "more to come further down the line". They basically started charging for living seasons and slapped "expansion" mark on them.

Moreover this latest expansion looks pretty lazy. From the sounds of things it's only two zones and all the content sounds like it's going to be "fractals" which is basically a boss beat down. Likely: You have a tower that's the main hub for players(One map), maybe a few enemies to kill and one or two fetch quests then a fractal zone where you beat waves of enemies and tackle bosses. Some people like this kind of content. I call it for what it is: Lazy design. Afterall, there's not much talent required when you make a room and spawn waves of enemies in on top of players. I'm pretty sure most of this content is going to be Trial of the Crusader/Grand Crusader from WoW: Wrath of the Lich King.

This game has gone so downhill in especially with the last expansion. The exploration is gone, there's a lot of pandering going on, an inexcusable amount of pandering, there's a lot of strange story decisions that don't make sense, a lot of characters that are just in positions with no explanation or reason and then "secret" alcoves for these characters where their motivations are spoon fed to the player - because they had to include these areas to try make some sense of why certain characters are where they area.

This next "expansion" which is just a living season, don't pretend it's not, looks incredibly lazy. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the game was shuttered after this "expansion". The writing isn't going to be good, the characters not interesting and those who are willing to pay for stuff are going to leave because of how uninteresting the world and it's characters are.

The devs need to lean into the original game design and build upon it. Not place all their eggs in the "bite-size" boss arena basket that, yes, people like... but only in small amounts. Anyone can be down for a boss fight one or twice a day but not all day and not the essence of the game and it's core content.

[Joker]

Originally posted by mysaga:

Originally posted by Jake Dragon:

For the record, I paid for the base game. Bought the game in a box and installed. I was happy they were not requiring subscriptions. :( but the DLCs are worse

Why do you think so? I mean, worst case scenario including the living world seasons and without any discount it is basically 12.50$ per year of content. And you can get that down to less than 8.00$. And it is optional. How is that worse then ~15.00$ per month in subscription based game?
You may have valid reasons from your perspective, I just fail to see them.

I don't think he meant that DLC purchase is worse than sub, I think he meant that he liked there was no additional purchase in base game, but worse now after DLC's released.

But he still has the same base game he payed for though, same content.
DLC's are optional

[L]

Originally posted by Joker:

But he still has the same base game he payed for though, same content.
DLC's are optional

Skins in games like DOTA or LoL are optional. STuff that increase your power level like reselling elite proffesion weapons is p2w. Money given, advantage taken. What I dont like about thisi how lazy devs are. They are reselling old content that they sold with DLCs.

[Tuathaqin]

Originally posted by Luckylancer:

Originally posted by Joker:

But he still has the same base game he payed for though, same content.
DLC's are optional

Skins in games like DOTA or LoL are optional. STuff that increase your power level like reselling elite proffesion weapons is p2w. Money given, advantage taken. What I dont like about thisi how lazy devs are. They are reselling old content that they sold with DLCs.

Well, in order to play those elite specs, in the first place, you have to buy the corresponding expansions, otherwise you don't have access to them. So, by your logic, paying for HoT, PoF or EoD must also be Pay-to-Win, then.

[Joker]

Originally posted by Luckylancer:

Originally posted by Joker:

But he still has the same base game he payed for though, same content.
DLC's are optional

Skins in games like DOTA or LoL are optional. STuff that increase your power level like reselling elite proffesion weapons is p2w. Money given, advantage taken. What I dont like about thisi how lazy devs are. They are reselling old content that they sold with DLCs.

It's always optional xD
Would only rly matter in PvP
And even then there's options, you're just more limited
But hey yeah I would certianly reccommend buying the expansions

But $60 for 2-3 years of MMO before DLC with no sub is hard to complain about (with free content released in between)
And option to get gemstore items with in-game gold

It costs lots of money to keep an MMORPG going, they have to make money somehow

Game would most likely have been shut down by now if no DLC
Or they would have had to earn money in worse ways
Most people prefer expansions
People asked for expansions for a long time actually, when it was thought to not happen

[mysaga]

Originally posted by Luckylancer:

Originally posted by Joker:

But he still has the same base game he payed for though, same content.
DLC's are optional

Skins in games like DOTA or LoL are optional. STuff that increase your power level like reselling elite proffesion weapons is p2w. Money given, advantage taken. What I dont like about thisi how lazy devs are. They are reselling old content that they sold with DLCs.

It sounds like you think the weapons you already have unlocked get taken away from you once the new expansion drops. This is not the case. You just buy the option to use the weapons with your other elite spec. And - some theory crafting aside - we don't even really know yet if it would be worth using it. Technically it will not increase your power level, but maybe there will be a build that is stronger in certain situations that requires this weapon mastery - just like it has been the case with all the previous expansions and their elite specs.

Also it is not the only thing you buy.

[armyguy]

Originally posted by Luckylancer:

Originally posted by Joker:

But he still has the same base game he payed for though, same content.
DLC's are optional

Skins in games like DOTA or LoL are optional. STuff that increase your power level like reselling elite proffesion weapons is p2w. Money given, advantage taken. What I dont like about thisi how lazy devs are. They are reselling old content that they sold with DLCs.

This has been going on for years now and nobody is allowed to call them out on it. These sycophants are going twist themselves into pretzels to justify the rehashing of old content.
There was this;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Return
followed by;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Champion%27s_Regalia
I'm sure there are other examples, I'm just not going to look for them.

[Joker]

Originally posted by armyguy:

Originally posted by Luckylancer:

Skins in games like DOTA or LoL are optional. STuff that increase your power level like reselling elite proffesion weapons is p2w. Money given, advantage taken. What I dont like about thisi how lazy devs are. They are reselling old content that they sold with DLCs.

This has been going on for years now and nobody is allowed to call them out on it. These sycophants are going twist themselves into pretzels to justify the rehashing of old content.
There was this;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Return
followed by;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Champion%27s_Regalia
I'm sure there are other examples, I'm just not going to look for them.

Why would you be mad about that?
You don't have to do it
It's just a collection, the best one in the game :)

Free legendary, 32 slot bag, gen 3 precursor, mats for vision/skyscale + much more

I fail to see the problem here

[mysaga]

Originally posted by Joker:

Originally posted by armyguy:

This has been going on for years now and nobody is allowed to call them out on it. These sycophants are going twist themselves into pretzels to justify the rehashing of old content.
There was this;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Return
followed by;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Champion%27s_Regalia
I'm sure there are other examples, I'm just not going to look for them.

Why would you be mad about that?
You don't have to do it
It's just a collection, the best one in the game :)

Free legendary, 32 slot bag, gen 3 precursor, mats for vision/skyscale + much more

I fail to see the problem here

In addition to it, it is not "reselling". Both the Living World (Season 1) Return and the Prismatic Champion Collection were free updates.

Living World Season 1 was not available for 9 years, so even though it uses old assets and story (and nobody disputes that), it is new to those who haven't been around back then. The missing story part was a major pain point - especially for new players who got confused about the new characters in season 2 - and it was a popular community demand to bring it back. For years.
It was also updated to the living story format, some texts and dialos were changed, added or removed and a new strike mission was added. No need to twist into a pretzel about that to prove your perspective on it is flawed. You just didn't like it and would have preferred something completely new you could dislike for other reasons.

The collection was filler content and an incentive to replay the seasons we had so far. It was basically announced as that. Calling something out that is openly announced as just that simply looks silly, doesn't it?

[naapsuland]

Originally posted by amarrminer:

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Players loved it though, and that's why they are still playing the HoT metas almost ten years later.

I don't agree with some of your points but the final assessment is sound enough. Unfortunately GW2 is more than a decade old MMO and there just isn't going back to the past.

It's impossible to judge SOTO by its cover without playing it. There'll probably be various reactions but the game will go on anyway.

a very small minority loved it, the rest of us took a long a break, and waited for the inevitable nerfs. not that it helped much, you cant polish a turd.

i agree, it was hard these days

[Zorak]

Its been desperate since ice brood honestly.

[armyguy]

Originally posted by Joker:

Originally posted by armyguy:

This has been going on for years now and nobody is allowed to call them out on it. These sycophants are going twist themselves into pretzels to justify the rehashing of old content.
There was this;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Return
followed by;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Champion%27s_Regalia
I'm sure there are other examples, I'm just not going to look for them.

Why would you be mad about that?
You don't have to do it
It's just a collection, the best one in the game :)

Free legendary, 32 slot bag, gen 3 precursor, mats for vision/skyscale + much more

I fail to see the problem here

This is what I'm talking about. You either have no concept of the English language or just refuse to actually participate in a conversation. Luckylancer stated, What I dont like about thisi how lazy devs are. They are reselling old content that they sold with DLCs. To which I replied,
There was this;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Return
followed by;
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Prismatic_Champion%27s_Regalia

Stay in the conversation or start another thread. You can twist yourself into all the knots you want to justify ANet's lack of leadership, vision, incompetence and laziness all you want. DO NOT TRY TO TWIST MY WORDS!!

[armyguy]

Originally posted by mysaga:

Originally posted by Joker:

Why would you be mad about that?
You don't have to do it
It's just a collection, the best one in the game :)

Free legendary, 32 slot bag, gen 3 precursor, mats for vision/skyscale + much more

I fail to see the problem here

In addition to it, it is not "reselling". Both the Living World (Season 1) Return and the Prismatic Champion Collection were free updates.

Living World Season 1 was not available for 9 years, so even though it uses old assets and story (and nobody disputes that), it is new to those who haven't been around back then. The missing story part was a major pain point - especially for new players who got confused about the new characters in season 2 - and it was a popular community demand to bring it back. For years.
It was also updated to the living story format, some texts and dialos were changed, added or removed and a new strike mission was added. No need to twist into a pretzel about that to prove your perspective on it is flawed. You just didn't like it and would have preferred something completely new you could dislike for other reasons.

The collection was filler content and an incentive to replay the seasons we had so far. It was basically announced as that. Calling something out that is openly announced as just that simply looks silly, doesn't it?

Another sycophant that can't understand written English and loves justifying ANet's incompetence.

[Q]

Originally posted by armyguy:

Originally posted by mysaga:

...

Another sycophant that can't understand written English and loves justifying ANet's incompetence.

Another what?? ohh yes this is a perfect example of ad hominem fallacy.

Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant but often highly charged issue.

There's no need to double post btw, you can quote mutliple people in one post, if they are subscribed to the discussion then a notification will be send.

Anyways Guild Wars 2 is amazing there's so many people online, maybe this comment will trigger the "but but but steam numbers" too bad for them cuz that's just a fraction of the real playerbase which is much bigger and anyone can see it ingame

[Q]

lol where did i heard ad hominem? do you even know what it means? go read the description again then read your previous post, seems like we having issues with basic reading comprehension. I don't need to know the context, you used the ad homimen, period.

Here's another term, applicable to you at this moment:

- Straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making. Is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction

And

- The mind projection fallacy is an informal fallacy first described by physicist and Bayesian philosopher E. T. Jaynes. In a first, "positive" form, it occurs when someone thinks that the way they see the world reflects the way the world really is, going as far as assuming the real existence of imagined objects

plus onus probandi, show me this "low ability, expertise or experience" regarding gw2 or some specific topic about the game, without evidence, well sadly you can't say it applies to me but go ahead, read more about fallacies it's a fun topic you can learn a thing or two.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by Zorak:

Its been desperate since ice brood honestly.

Champions was the biggest disappointment. The saga started pretty great actually, but then anet decided to scrap everything for cantha.

And now... they scrap the whole cantha for a half-baked xpac