Guildwars 2 is how to NEVER design PvP/WvW in an MMO

[hjjr78]

Guildwars 2 is the worst PvP game ever made! World vs World is not even pvp because the concepts behind it are all wrong. Players run around scared to face off because ranged DPS is too high and there's too much "CC" (root, daze, stun, knockdown, etc). Excessive Boons allow for groups to run around in super Blobs, running over everything in sight.

Class are unbalanced like hell but to be honest, the classes don't really work in terms of their abilities, which leave some classes 'OP' and others pathetic. Necromancer is completely dead! The class has no Boons worth anything and the ones it has don't last long, your shroud does not last long, and all your traits are slotted poorly and most of them are useless for WvW. If I run my 'Necro', I can only die in WvW. If I run my Willbender, I can raise hell, get inside Zergs and get out alive. That's how bad the 'Necro' class is compared to other classes and this is not fair for those who invested in 'Necro' as their main. The same thing happend to the Warrior class in World of Warcraft. 'Necro' attacks are also slow on purpose. This allows anybody to easily dodge your heavy hits. Base damage on all Necro attacks are also way too low. I can drop everything on my Necro and do no damage to another player but on my Willbender, one cut takes a huge chunk out of them. Get this... Players are still telling the "Devs" to 'Nerf' Necro class. What's left to take away!? The class is literally the laughing test dummy class of WvW.

World of Warcraft has/had better PvP than 'GW2.' Warcraft had a class balance and gear obtain issue(s) but the battlegrounds were fun. There's nothing fun about GW2's WvW because it's all die, res, die, res, die, res super fast with no good one on one encounters. You can't even go down swinging in GW2's WVW because that's how badly it's developed.

The game is horribly made and the creatores behind it are not creative and dumb as "chit!" It's a total chaotic mess!

I'm getting pretty close to uninstalling the game now. It's just a bore because it's a total "gank" fest and the hackers... OMFG, the hackers! I've never seen so many hackers in an MMO's pvp in my life!

Guildwars 2 is not number one! It's not even number negative 1! If garbage like that is considered good, then that's great news for any game development company that's thinking about creating an MMO that features pvp. Just play GW2's WvW and you'll know how to NOT make an MMO's pvp. Hell, the entire game is a guide to how to develop poorly.

WvW has nothing to do with skill because a push/click action game, based on gear stats is hardly a design for true skill. I've played an MMO that featured gear with no stats and the game play was more action-game oriented and required play skills, not click this click that and let your 'OP' class keep winning.

Most players who run around in WvW ganking other players would not be doing so if one, they couldn't get away with hacking, two, if they didn't have long range DPS to hide behind, three, if super speed and teleports were removed and lastly...invulnerability. Players are somehow running around immune to everything for like three minutes. Of course it's hacks because "invul" doesn't last that long. I have it on my Willbender and it's only 3 seconds but I see other Willbenders dancing around with it active forever.

The "Devs" are doing nothing to fix the game and it's not that hard. The following Post talks about three changes that would totally reshape all of WvW...........

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So there I was in WvW on my Willbender because "Necro" is officially dead; that class can not compete with all the 'Boon Party' classes. Just playing around on my Willbender proves that because I was able to get into the middle of a large Zerg and fight out and escape multiple times. That's not possible on any Necro Meta Build and what backs up that claim is the fact, you don't see too many players running a Neco anymore in WvW. Just pay attention to the classes people are on... It's all the classes that generate crazy Boons, Invulnerability, Teleports, Shadow-Steps, Ranged and disappearing. The Necro class is now the World of Warcraft Warrior of GW2 and folks.... Just be honest for once in your lives. You don't see 10+ Boons on a Necro that were generated by a Necro and that alone puts that class, which is already slow and easy to 'CC', at a total disadvantage against all 'Boon Party' Classes.

Anyway, that's not what I wanted to mention here....

Players were complaining about how WvW was. Die, 'res', Die, 'res', Die, 'res', over and over again and those are not my words. It's like that for a reason and it's not hard to see why.

Even with the game having bad concepts throughout, WvW could be pretty amazing if just THREE changes were made.

One....

Boons shared effect needs to be greatly reduced. I'm not talking about self Boons, I'm referring to when Boons get onto teammates. That shared effect needs to be tiny. Why? Because when you have 30+ players all giving shared Boons, that tiny share will turn into a decent size share that will empower a 'Zerg' without making it overpowered but as it stands, Zergs are overpowered because you have so many FULL shared effect Boons going off at once.

Two....

Reduce ranged damage to smaller damage, much like "Condi" 'DOT." I know ranged players are going to blow a fuse over this one but you're blowing that fuse for nothing. There is no reason why Rangers, 'Eng', Mesmers, etc need to do so much damage in the far distance, when these classes are capable of 'throwing down' up close and personal. I know this for a fact! My Ranger in PvE shocked me when I finally stop using range so much and got close and personal. They are one of the more powerful up close DPS classes in the game. The same thing can be said for the 'Eng' so why give these classes an easy win in the distance? This is one of the reasons Zergs are also so overpowered because all their ranged players are doing so much damage as you try to approach a Zerg or as the Zerg comes to you, the 'lawnmower' effect happens, which is when one Zerg gets cut down like a lawnmower going over grass and this happens over and over and over and it's just a bore. There is no real PvP to be had with that kind of design. This is why ranged DPS needs to be dropped down in WvW only, making those players engage another player up close. When you add in the fact players seem to have super speed all the time... If they can high DPS in the distance all day with super speed, you can forget it. You'll be dead after your first three steps towards them. That is BAD design for PvP. Ranged damage should be doing like, 100, 250, 97 and sometimes 1k+, which is pretty much how "Condi" damage is reduced. It's easy to run in the distance all day but truly takes strategy to engage; I won't say skills because it's a push/click action MMO that's based on stats on gear. There was only one MMO made that was truly based on skills and gear did NOT have stats at all.

Three....

"CC"......

When you have a 30, 40+ man Zerg and each player has two or three "CC" abilities.... That's WAY too much "CC!" I really only see two options.... 'A', make "CC" only work against NPCs (tower/keep guards, etc) and not against other Human players. 'B', allow everybody to only equip one "CC" ability or if it's a "CC" by trait, then equip none. Why do this? Because Zergs will burn through "CC" faster, which will allow players who didn't get "CC'ed" to charge forward and stand tall, granted change One and Two are implemented as well.

These three changes would just allow players to go at it longer without dying in a heart beat and resurrecting all the time, just to run back and get cut down again in the blink of an eye. For those of you who ran Alterac Valley in World of Warcraft....be honest... That was FUUUNNNN wasn't it, Baby! :D

What's the difference? Well, you didn't have a 'Boon Party' going on. You didn't have a planet load of "CC" going on. You didn't have Zergs going on. You went down swinging in "WOW", none of this several players "CC'ing" you so hard you can't move or get up from the ground stuff. You didn't really get 'ganked' in "WOW" battlegrounds, not to the extent of what you see in GW2.

If the "Devs" would just make the three changes and run it for a week in a beta, I bet my "zonkey" players would NOT want to go back! You'll be having too much what I like to call, Royal Rumble "throw down" fun!

Those suggested changes are fair, because no class isn't going to lose anything because if you think Ranged classes can't deal close up DPS, think again. They just don't because they don't want to risk it and why should they when they can blow you up in the distance.

Personally, in all my years of developing... I could have never come up with the current concepts that exist in GW2 (my creativity won‘t let me, it‘s too high), especially in WvW because they (concepts) just have too many issues but hey...not going to press that, but something really needs to be done about the current WvW. It’s absolutely too chaotic and more about quick deaths than PvP and by pvp, I mean player vs player and not the other PvP mode.

Players are complaining, they just don't go to the forums with it and the "Devs" are probably never going to consider the feedback anyway. If I'm being honest, all the WvW I did today, I was not having fun at all. I was just there to get the claim tickets and memories of battles. You can’t have much fun with the current structure and if players think they were having fun...let those three suggestions happen and you’ll probably be so addicted to WvW, you’ll need MMO rehab to get off it.
Done with that...


Seriously though... The Necro class needs Boons too man...it's only right and I'm talking about Reaper and Core mostly but all build types need more Boons to complete and the traits need to be re-slotted in order to be more effective and all marks need to be unblockable because they can easily be dodged, Necros shouldn't have to trait for that. More stun break needs to be added to tray abilities too. My Willbender can trigger protection with other Boons and the same abilities also allow for stun breaks. That's insane when it comes to class treatment. It's like the Necro was purposely reduced to failure and given how many players keep pushing for more "Nerfing" although I don't know what's left to "Nerf" on a class that doesn't generate any real meaningful Boons, yeah.... Necromancer is truly the "WOW" Warrior and other classes know it, which is why the first thing they do is pull the Necro to them because they know the class has no "Boon Party" and they know the class can't escape from battle. Easy win every time. I would say the Reaper can put up the best fight up close but the lack in Boons will ultimately lead to defeat. You can’t “Condi” with Necro even though Curses and Scepter are for that because conditions are reduced to nothing in WvW so you’ll do no real damage. Scourge, the Shroud shielding don’t help because DPS is too fast and furious and the cool-down on Desert Shroud is way too long, plus again, any conditions spread from it won’t do much in WvW. It’s not hard to see why it’s a dead class if you’re being honest and if you’re not being honest, you probably just want to see it even “deader.”
.

Final contemplation....

The “Devs” really need to do something about players who run around with Invulnerability lasting more than 10 seconds. That’s God Mode. They are so bold with it, they like to dance around in front of you for 10 seconds while you do zero everything to them and then run off with super speed and still have Invulnerability up. Makes no sense what so ever in what’s supposed to be PvP, not player vs ghost player. A three man team of Invulnerability players can wipe out a 10 man Zerg that don’t have it. That's how ridiculous it is.



Forgive "typos", (I really gotta stop typing with the lights off, bad for the eyes)



Peace

[Gon Freecss]

longest post i have ever seen and never read

[Hefutoxin]

引用自 armyguy：

That nerf was ANet reducing what we already had and no, thief mains were not happy about the change. It reduced our ability to heal and cleanse at the expense of initiative. One second of super speed is useless when we had 50% increase speed while in stealth. A thief can still sit in stealth forever if he so chooses. It mainly killed off deadeye, not so much daredevil as a pistol/pistol, bounding, interrupt build with shadow arts and superior rune of the aristocracy.

Sure thing. Trying to discuss things with you is pigeon chess.

[Valinov]

tl;dr
clown title and more than likely clown content
bad b8

[Slain The Ulti-Maid]

aint readin allat!

[A Corpse Queef Scented Candle]

Open the window shades. Take a shower. Shave your neck beard. Put on some clean clothes. Put the fedora on the rack. Put on sun screen. Let some sun hit your translucent body. Leave that rock you been living under. Say hello to a fellow human being. It’s not this serious.

[DarkSlayer197]

引用自 armyguy：

Being rather generous. Yes I remember the cannons, siege repairs, golem rush weeks. As for the alliance betas, really? Seven years and all they got to show for it is 3 or 4 beta test fails.

This is a late reply only because I finally noticed it. Here we go.

*sips coffee*

betas weren't fails, but test runs. However, first one failed due to an error in their system completely breaking WvW and had to revert it to the old until they were able to fix it.

I could also point out class balances made for WvW as well. As well as the changing of many Masteries within WvW. So again, not completely neglected, but low priority I would agree with.

Aww yes the pip changes. Making it easier for the new people in wvw to get legendary armour after I and others, grinded our asses off for ours. FYI, 10 years ago, for map completion, you needed to get all pois, vistas and wp in wvw and pvp but the new players cried the boohoos and ANet pandered to them, once again.

Just not gonna touch that one. You have your opinion.

Found the achievement although I never even thought to look in general for a competitive achievement. Been in T1 and 2 and except for last week killing an ANet trying to resupply and throwing 10g worth od siege onto them, I haven't seen any ANet.

Well, the problem is, there is already a PvP and a WvW tab. The Conquer the Creator can be done in both. So, placing it under Community makes the most amount of sense.

Agree to disagree. I don't think a thief, warrior, ranger should have extended condition duration or, in the case of warriors and rangers, out heal damage they take.

You have your opinion. So do I. Although, I will point out a few things. While I don't know much about Warrior (I don't play one), Rangers (for healing) makes sense because Druid and SoulBeast. Druid because it is mainly a healer spec. SoulBeast because there are pets you can use that come with powerful healing attributes and bonuses.

For Condi duration, again, it makes sense for Ranger because nature. You use pets and the nature around you to inflict conditions. Thief makes sense too. Thieves have specs and skills that go into poisoning foes and weakening them when poisoned.

It goes to show how "me, me, me, I want it now" the new players are and how far ANet goes to coddle that behaviour.

You have your opinion. Not going to touch it.

If stealth across the board was hit as hard as it was on thief, then I and other thieves wouldn't have a leg to stand on but ANet, in all their wisdom, chose to hit the thief over and over and over again. If it wasn't power being reduce or cool downs extended, they were completely removing a skill branch. (I'm talking about when trapper runes came out. Instead of removing the new runes, they removed traps ONLY from thief and replaced them with that abortion, preparations.) Now deadeye's elite can no longer remove revealed, all cool down reductions on trick and deception skills have been removed. Did ANet do that to any other class? Nope. ANet is pandering to the whiner base by gutting thief, not any other one shot builds/classes out there.

Personally, I main thief myself, but am fine with the change. Because perma stealth seems kinda broken especially considering how easy it is for a thief to stealth constantly. As for the Traps, they were replaced due to its non use, I believe. They weren't very useful. Preparations is still viable for traps but acts more like c4 allowing you to trigger the trap.

Other classes were nerfed yes. Engineer, Catalyst, Rev, etc. However changes made could be reverted later on since balancing is still occurring. So, the many issues you have could be addressed in the near future.

Complaints? These are tangible things I fervently dislike about ANet's management of gw2. I really despise when they call themselves leaders. They have no idea what it's like to be a leader of men and keep them healthy and alive. They want to be a leader of the wvw balance and improvement team, get on for 2 or 3 hours on a Saturday and live the experience from roaming to zerging and not just on a safe server like Blackgate or Maguuma (NA servers that reside in T1 and 2) and not just during prime time. Their "new" weekly achievements in wvw are fine but they could only come up with 7 things? Repeated every week? Really? That in itself doesn't show much commitment, knowledge nor pride of product. Does it?

Well, you expressing the things you dislike is a complaint. Just what a complaint is. My point was your complaint wasn't the issue. It was how you did it. The insults throwing. I like it to be kept clean.

As for the dev remark, again. You stated your opinion. Not gonna touch it.

As for the weekly challenges. it being a bandage for some issues can be argued. And perhaps further reworks are coming down the line. I won't go deeper into it because that's not a argument I want to go into. I'll just keep it at that.

[Greyfire]

There something about a player who thinks they know more and know better than the developers - yet, the player has absolutely zero to do with development...in any game...

[Rhythm]

Skill Issue

[Michael]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.