Is it pay to win?

[Auri]

I keep seeing posts saying that it isnt put I see that you can buy gold form gems that you buy with irl money. Can you buy in game items that make your character stronger or is it only for cosmetics? Thanks for the help in advance.

[Yvan]

Цитата допису DarkSlayer197:

Цитата допису Gronmor:

I see a lot of people pointing out that the gemstore is basically just cosmetics and there's no op-items in there, that you don't need to buy those to be strong. That is true. HOWEVER, I feel like it's worth noting that there are stuff in the Gem Store that are useful, and not just cosmetic. You can buy character slots, so you can make more characters. You can buy more storage for your bank or for your characters. You can buy more build templates. Those are all things that can be useful to have.

Just wanted to give an honest answer! But none of those will make your characters stronger! Most of the advantages you get from the gem store, it's so that you can store more stuff, create more characters, save more build templates, stuff like that. You can survive without it though!

The items you listed are QoL (Quality of Life) stuff which were already mentioned above.

More characters are not QoL, in my opinion. Not really p2w, either, just removing an annoying limitation.

Aren't there unlimited gathering tools in the gemstore? Those provide an advantage (a minimal one) over the regular ones. It's not just removing the inconvinience of having to visit one of the multiple vendors per city selling them.
And recyclers? the best one for certain items (at least according to some youtube streamers) is a gemstore exclusive. Not just QoL.

The diference that those things make is small if not minimal, but there IS a difference, And even if they were truly only QoL, they allow people to save time, be more efficient and gain more gold per hour, and that seems to be the goal of many people within the game.

[AFC_HIGHBURY]

Цитата допису Yvan:

Цитата допису DarkSlayer197:

The items you listed are QoL (Quality of Life) stuff which were already mentioned above.

More characters are not QoL, in my opinion. Not really p2w, either, just removing an annoying limitation.

Aren't there unlimited gathering tools in the gemstore? Those provide an advantage (a minimal one) over the regular ones. It's not just removing the inconvinience of having to visit one of the multiple vendors per city selling them.
And recyclers? the best one for certain items (at least according to some youtube streamers) is a gemstore exclusive. Not just QoL.

The diference that those things make is small if not minimal, but there IS a difference, And even if they were truly only QoL, they allow people to save time, be more efficient and gain more gold per hour, and that seems to be the goal of many people within the game.

paying 30 for a unbreakable tools is just rediculas imo and isnt even that much of a convenience (have all mats i need for gear and trading without needing to harvest)
you can also get the tools from black lion trader as far as im aware they aint locked behind cash shop and even then could just turn gold to gems.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Цитата допису Yvan:

And even if they were truly only QoL, they allow people to save time, be more efficient and gain more gold per hour, and that seems to be the goal of many people within the game.

That's... what "QoL" means... "Quality of Life", as in, eliminates some degree of micromanagement to save time or be more efficient...

[Yvan]

Цитата допису Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Цитата допису Yvan:

And even if they were truly only QoL, they allow people to save time, be more efficient and gain more gold per hour, and that seems to be the goal of many people within the game.

That's... what "QoL" means... "Quality of Life", as in, eliminates some degree of micromanagement to save time or be more efficient...

They allow you to save some coin and thus not just QoL, in my opinion. Either way, thats not what I'm trying to argue. I'm well aware what QoL means. What I mean is that "just cosmetics" and "just QoL" are very different things, the first does not impact gameplay, the second does, specially for new players who don't have tons of mats stored (as others have suggested and, btw, mat storage is also a gemstore item), can't really use the black lion thing that much, and can't farm gold in a meaningful and fast way ("you can just farm for gold" is so often arguued that is tiring really).

[TheTool]

Цитата допису Yvan:

Цитата допису Totally Innocent Chatbot:

That's... what "QoL" means... "Quality of Life", as in, eliminates some degree of micromanagement to save time or be more efficient...

They allow you to save some coin and thus not just QoL, in my opinion. Either way, thats not what I'm trying to argue. I'm well aware what QoL means. What I mean is that "just cosmetics" and "just QoL" are very different things, the first does not impact gameplay, the second does, specially for new players who don't have tons of mats stored (as others have suggested and, btw, mat storage is also a gemstore item), can't really use the black lion thing that much, and can't farm gold in a meaningful and fast way ("you can just farm for gold" is so often arguued that is tiring really).

How about play th game for awhile before wanting everything.
That usually helps.

[Unsociable]

Цитата допису Yvan:

Цитата допису Totally Innocent Chatbot:

That's... what "QoL" means... "Quality of Life", as in, eliminates some degree of micromanagement to save time or be more efficient...

They allow you to save some coin and thus not just QoL, in my opinion. Either way, thats not what I'm trying to argue. I'm well aware what QoL means. What I mean is that "just cosmetics" and "just QoL" are very different things, the first does not impact gameplay, the second does, specially for new players who don't have tons of mats stored (as others have suggested and, btw, mat storage is also a gemstore item), can't really use the black lion thing that much, and can't farm gold in a meaningful and fast way ("you can just farm for gold" is so often arguued that is tiring really).

See the bad thing is everyone has their own definition of pay2win

Do the infinite mining tools give any advantage over other players ? no
you get the same materials as every other player

What you could Technically call pay2win at the very least in guild wars 2 is the Runes that are slotted into the mining tools that give you extra materials on mine Over a regular player who has the merchant tools But even then those extra materials are like a couple copper now

My definition of pay2win is I get extra stats from Cosmetics from the store so say equipping a costume gives me +100 Power

Like a game i use to play dragon nest you could buy stats from the store
or Archeage where you could buy your gear score levels up where a regular payer had to grind a ♥♥♥♥ ton

Quality of lify stuff i dont consider p2w
Gold i dont consider pay2win because They cant surpass Ascended/Legendary stat gear
they can catch up but cant go any further, everyone will be the same in the end

[Kevisnotin]

No, the game is not pay to win. There's nothing in the gem store that will make stronger than other players. Stuff in the Gem store is more to make yourself or your mounts look pretty. I will say this! It IS worth buying the expansions. Unlike other MMos, you have no premium subscription, so once u buy an expansion, you're officially a premium player and will be it forever!

[Brix | Friendly old Scrub]

While the gem store only have convenience and cosmetic items I think it's important to mention that you can buy Gems for real money and then convert those gems into Gold with the click if a button. This means that you can buy anything you want from the trading post as well ("end game" weapons and armor for example) I wouldn't worry about "p2w" tho as it's more of a way of catching up if you're desperate and have money to burn.
The most important is that you can't buy your way to victory, you'll still get rolled in PvP or die over and over in PvE even with the best gear in the game if you don't know what you're doing. Jump in and give it a go, this game has something for everyone to enjoy and don't worry about "p2w" :)

[Neitsuke]

While it is true you are saving coins with unlimited gathering tools, keep in mind that 100 uses for the axe is 4 silvers, while the unlimited tool at normal gem price and average gold to gem exchange being 140 for 400, means that you would need to log 875 000 times or chop +- 290 000 trees to break even. Let say on average, and I'm being generous here, you chop 100 trees per day ; It would take you around 8 years to break about even. The same holds true for the salvage kits. While infinite, they have a cost to use mirroring what it would cost if you would instead buy and use the kit from the general merchant, though just a little less expensive. There is nothing better about them and every kit available in the gem store are available from the general merchant

The only items I can think of where I can say is clearly pay2win, are the attack/armor boosters (They only work for PvE though, but still). I'm not even sure if they still sell those. I still have some of them in my inventory but they've been there forever

Edit : You couldn't directly buy them, but were possible loot from the Black Lion Chest, which made it a lot worse. They've been removed a long time ago though

[The Wager]

You'll only spend when you want those shiny wings, thrones, crown, birds, cows, horse, wolf, bucket, christmas lights.. the list goes on

[Angoril]

Цитата допису Neitsuke:

While it is true you are saving coins with unlimited gathering tools, keep in mind that 100 uses for the axe is 4 silvers, while the unlimited tool at normal gem price and average gold to gem exchange being 140 for 400, means that you would need to log 875 000 times or chop +- 290 000 trees to break even. Let say on average, and I'm being generous here, you chop 100 trees per day ; It would take you around 8 years to break about even.

This is very true. As much as I love my unlimited gathering tools, I never recommend to anyone to grab a set unless, like me, they enjoy gathering a lot. Tools available for karma have less uses than the ones you get from the regular merchants but they come with a glyph already in the item (cannot be removed or replaced).

Running out of regular tools is not a big deal either as one can just press G, get in the guild hall, buy a new batch of tools and be back to whatever they were doing in less than a minute.

That said, unlimited tools are available for statuettes as well (45 statuettes each). While I consider buying loot box keys a terrible idea, guaranteed keys are available by doing the story once a week (level 10, 60 and 70 if my memory doesn't fail me). So even by running a throwaway character over the level 10 story chapter, over time one could get a set of tools without spending any cash or gold, given they have the patience to do it.

[C4RNIVOR3]

Цитата допису Neitsuke:

There is nothing better about them and every kit available in the gem store are available from the general merchant

Consider: they look cooler

I'm only partly joking, but ultimately at the end of the day cosmetic options exist because players like to look different and stand out, and frankly the unlimited tools aren't any different in that regard. I've seen plenty of people mention buying specific ones to "fit" their character. A good chunk of people absolutely are not buying them solely for the unlimited use, they're buying them as a cosmetic, just like any other cosmetic in the shop.

[gyaru enjoyer]

it's very pay2win all the "QoL" stuff should have just been ingame unlockables
you will be spending most of your money unlocking bank and bag slots just to have room for anything
the only people who say it's not are boomers with 20 alts that afk farm

[Canucklehead79]

Probably the least p2w MMO I've played, generally so far the paid features are expansions or QoL to avoid grind.

But you seem to be able to buy everything with in game currency (inlcuding gems for the store) so I think you can have a good game experience totally f2p,

Reminds me a lot of D&D MMO, where the only thing you really pay for is the expansions (if you want them).

You don't need to but paying for one of the expansions seems like a pretty good deal if you play it much, as the extra contents is pretty substantial. And no subscription fees or anything so seems fair.

[C4RNIVOR3]

Цитата допису p a p i:

it's very pay2win all the "QoL" stuff should have just been ingame unlockables
you will be spending most of your money unlocking bank and bag slots just to have room for anything
the only people who say it's not are boomers with 20 alts that afk farm

QoL stuff is typically not considered p2w. P2w often includes elements such as cosmetics with stat buffs, cash shop exclusive gear that is far stronger than most gear you can obtain through free gameplay, things like that. If you think quality of life things count as Actual p2w then you have enjoyed some very generous games in your career. Things that put a paying player over an obvious and significant advantage over someone who cannot pay, or can only do like a few dollars a month or something is what is actually p2w, you are paying to win. Like, yknow, Diablo Immortal's entire monetization scheme, one of the worst p2w systems seen in a game in a long while.

I think it's kind of a separate, but related, discussion as to whether some of the QoL options should be more widely available, but gw2 does also let you buy gems through gold and not a lot of online games do premium currency exchange like that. But p2w is more like.... can I put in my credit card information and instantly be better than most of the playerbase and players who do not do so will always be inferior and cannot compete with those who pay? If yes, that is p2w. The only advantage you have with more storage over someone with less storage is, uh. You have more storage I guess. It's not going to make you better in any content.