GW2 Problems for Starting/Returning Players

[Chronos]

Instead of just commenting about it elsewhere, i decided to see what other people think about one main issues i have with how the game deals with this aspect, it seems to bother a lot of players out there, and as a returning player from 10 years ago i can include myself in this situation.

Almost everyone knows by now that the game has horizontal progression and it is 10 years old, so most of it's current active player base is fully geared up, mutiple characters most likely, so here is what bothers me and as i've seen, a lot of people out in the community..

GEARING UP

Gear is separated by tier and stats distribuition, endgame tiers being Exotic < Ascended < Legendary, there's not much difference between those tiers when it comes to numbers, but they add a lot of flexibility/versatility with how easy you can switch stat combinations, builds, gear, spec, etc, and there is a lot of stat combinations that may work or not for different builds, setups and content.

Now keep in mind that your attacks, skills and rotations is directly related to the weapons you have equipped and also to your build setup.

So now we can talk about the first issue, based on all that, after doing some research, it is noticeable that when you get to level 80, depending on personal taste and gameplay style, different builds may grab your attention and when looking for gear you'll find out that some builds are fairly easy to obtain so you can start enjoying your build, while others simply punish you for wanting that playstyle, some gear sets will take you weeks or months to finish farming, while other fresh 80s can simply finish their builds in a few minutes and work on their next goal simply because of the price tag difference between some stat distributions compared to others, in the end you get punished for wanting to play the way you want, there's no clear advantage from one over the other, they just work for different builds..

Player - "i want to play with build X, it's so fun!!"

Game - "Nope, that's only for the rich kids or those that spent at least a few weeks in game, you have to start with build Y"

Player - "But, but the only reason for me to be playing this character is build X right now, and your game ad on steam said i can play the game the way i want!!"

Game - "I don't care, give me money so you can play with it or just wait and do content you don't enjoy for a few weeks to unlock it.."

Player - "But my friend is having fun with his build at fresh 80, he even managed to save some gold for his runes and some bags cause his gear is from the same tier as the one i want, but very cheap, why can't i do the same?"

Game - "*shrugs*, if you don't like it you either push through or quit it, i really don't care, i got your money already"

Now, how this issue aggravates is, while some people have their setup ready as soon as they hit 80, they can already work towards learning his build playstyle, rotations, muscle memory and feel like they're taking something out of their sessions, it's already helping them feel like they're achieving something and progressing towards their goals, while other people depending on which stat distribution they want, will have to settle for unoptimized builds and weapon setups that may not even be efficient or synergizes well enough, and may not have any purpose for them later on since they'll have to change everything up and start learning everything from scratch. Oh, and if at the end you don't get used to your expensive or time consuming build you just need to start it all over again. It is a bad design for a game with horizontal progression and extremely frustrating and confusing for a lot of people.

But there is a way around it, which is ascended gear, it allows you to switch playstyle and adapt easily ( i think), and pretty much all the active player base already have full ascended and legendary gear in multiple characters, but for some reason farming ascended gear takes time EVEN IF YOU PLAY THIS GAME 24/7, why? Because it is either locked behind a lot of gold, or time gated, you can't put time and effort into catching up to other players, you need to wait just for the sake of waiting, why are new players or returning players locked behind time gates while everyone else already have their stuff available to them for years?

Some will say that gear doesn't matter that much, you can do a lot with an unoptimized build, most of it comes from skill, but a lot of people just want to feel good about their character and their progression towards getting good at the game, so yeah, having stuff that doesn't make you better than anyone, matters when you're 10 years behind everyone else in every single aspect of the game, it's fine, people played to get good at it, to have knowledge about mechanics, builds, exploration, farm methods, PvE, PvP, they earned that through playtime, and the game again, has horizontal progression, so why stop new players from playing the way they want, at the end skill and the flexibility of ascended and legendary gear is what will separate one from the other, you're punishing people for wanting to play a specific way while others can benefit from it in a 10 years old game, some new players can have fun from the get go while others have to feel frustrated just because they want a specific build?

[Chronos]

引用自 Sychon：

Are you sure you want to play this game at this point?
Don't mean to be coy. It's a sincere question?

I definitely do, but researching and talking about it helps me understand why they decided to launch this game on steam and why the MMO isn't as popular, also helps me make a better decision about spending money in this game or not, it still is a good MMO, and looks fun for those that just want casual gameplay..

[Tomkatt]

Game's progression is horizontal and it's not hard to come back as a returning player. I recently came back after an 8-9 year hiatus and most of my characters were still fully viable and gear was fine. Core builds are still fine and elite specs aren't too hard to build up. All the gear you had 8 years ago is still good for power builds, and decent for condition builds, though some new better gear (Viper) has come out for condition builds since Heart of Thorns.

[smallfoxx]

引用自 Chronos：

I definitely do, but researching and talking about it helps me understand why they decided to launch this game on steam and why the MMO isn't as popular, also helps me make a better decision about spending money in this game or not, it still is a good MMO, and looks fun for those that just want casual gameplay..

I would be careful about viewing something that is a 'problem' as a 'barrier'. Yes the game doesn't communicate well the specific gear for specific roles or why one set costs more than another, but that doesn't mean its not playable. As you go from 1-80, you learn *how* to play your character. Once you hit 80, you shouldn't just start jumping into a Raid and expect to be the healer or support the other members are expecting.

You can do okay with some mix match gear as you go through the story. It may be harder for you to do things, you might have to team up with some others to get the Legendary Champion killed, but there's a community there in that spot too or at least been there and often happy to help, but there are very FEW that could truly solo it; that's not what the game intended.

Most of the gear that is 'cheap' is the classic DPS builds (power/condi/etc). But in a party, that role is 60%-80% of the population its where everyone needs to start because you're still learning and is honestly interchangeable. The 20%-40% doing heals fdssdfadssupport everyone else in the party is relying on. Those roles need to know how the others are generally going to work and when they fail, its really rough on everyone else. These roles are also newer and some of the sets are harder to find, but unachievable.

More over, while you're running around the map going through story and often doing solo stuff, you don't want pure dps or support, and usually want some sort of balanced build. A lot of those are cheap & easy to get, too. So you don't need to really fret about it.

A video if you really want to focus on getting top level gear ASAP is Mukluk's "Getting Ascended: Gearing up after 80"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox0IEavS9oA&t=349s&ab_channel=MuklukYoutube
This will give you top level stats and you can even change most of it afterwords in the Mystic Forge.

Most expansions also came with lvl 80 boosts; if you do that, they now give you Celestial Gear (even stats). You won't be great at anything, but won't be bad at anything either. It will let you learn what play you like and support you as you get the 'meta' gear for it.

Also, all of this is moot for PvP because everyone (even lvl 2), is bumped to lvl 80 and has the same gear stats to set.

tl;dr: Could the game do better about how and what gear to get? yes. Is it going to destroy your experience or block you from having fun? no

[Autumn]

I'm really sorry that you feel this way, and to be honest I really don't know how to read you. I can't tell if you only played a little back when Legendaries barely existed, nor did ascended, or if you've been playing for that long but to be perfectly honest. A lot of this is tripe.

I have 4K hours, I have 2 Legendaries. I got them within the last 3 months, they were Aurora and Regalia. I also have 2 sets of ascended, one light, one heavy. I often use anthologies to change their stats if needed. To be perfectly honest, your post reads as someone who has been told what to do to get gear, but is convinced that what you've been told isn't possible. You can get a set of Power gear that is BiS for fractals 1-75 for like 10 gold, max. That's 5 days of daily reward.

Now if you're a returning player who just got back and it feels like this, buddy, you're quite misinformed. Gearing may have been harder 9 years ago but you can get 6 pieces of PvE dropped Berserkers armor for like 1.5 Gold. Off the TP. Like right now. Go on, I'll wait. No better yet, I'LL BUY IT FOR YOU.

[Pinkspring]

This reads like an endgame problem, tbh. You can set up any build you want and gun with it through 95% of the content. The remaining 5% is raids, high tier fractals and other endgame content, maybe there your argument has merit.

..But then once you're at that stage, you're not really a "freshly returned player", are you?

Either way, yes, guild Wars 2 has a lot of goodies hidden behind gold and grinding. That blows a bit, not gonna lie, but it isnt like you HAVE to do it for your build or anything.

Source: Recently picked up after a 7 year break, still dont have ascended gear, and I'm doing fine in anything except raids.

As an ELEMENTALIST, even.

[Chronos]

引用自 Autumn：

I'm really sorry that you feel this way, and to be honest I really don't know how to read you. I can't tell if you only played a little back when Legendaries barely existed, nor did ascended, or if you've been playing for that long but to be perfectly honest. A lot of this is tripe.

I have 4K hours, I have 2 Legendaries. I got them within the last 3 months, they were Aurora and Regalia. I also have 2 sets of ascended, one light, one heavy. I often use anthologies to change their stats if needed. To be perfectly honest, your post reads as someone who has been told what to do to get gear, but is convinced that what you've been told isn't possible. You can get a set of Power gear that is BiS for fractals 1-75 for like 10 gold, max. That's 5 days of daily reward.

Now if you're a returning player who just got back and it feels like this, buddy, you're quite misinformed. Gearing may have been harder 9 years ago but you can get 6 pieces of PvE dropped Berserkers armor for like 1.5 Gold. Off the TP. Like right now. Go on, I'll wait. No better yet, I'LL BUY IT FOR YOU.

I do have berserkers set from back then, I'm not getting back to the game for the "new player" experience, where everything is new or interesting and you're taking your time with everything, i'm trying to get back to endgame content asap, pve, pvp, wvw, and in order to do that i need to be able to test different builds and figure out what works for me, by doing that fast i can build my setup and start mastering combat, rotations, muscle memory and all that, would only be fair if all stat combination equipment from the same tier could be obtained with the same effort and through whatever content you feel like doing, not hidden behind specific content, time gated farm or single time reward systems..

[Drake]

引用自 Chronos：

引用自 Autumn：

I'm really sorry that you feel this way, and to be honest I really don't know how to read you. I can't tell if you only played a little back when Legendaries barely existed, nor did ascended, or if you've been playing for that long but to be perfectly honest. A lot of this is tripe.

I have 4K hours, I have 2 Legendaries. I got them within the last 3 months, they were Aurora and Regalia. I also have 2 sets of ascended, one light, one heavy. I often use anthologies to change their stats if needed. To be perfectly honest, your post reads as someone who has been told what to do to get gear, but is convinced that what you've been told isn't possible. You can get a set of Power gear that is BiS for fractals 1-75 for like 10 gold, max. That's 5 days of daily reward.

Now if you're a returning player who just got back and it feels like this, buddy, you're quite misinformed. Gearing may have been harder 9 years ago but you can get 6 pieces of PvE dropped Berserkers armor for like 1.5 Gold. Off the TP. Like right now. Go on, I'll wait. No better yet, I'LL BUY IT FOR YOU.

I do have berserkers set from back then, I'm not getting back to the game for the "new player" experience, where everything is new or interesting and you're taking your time with everything, i'm trying to get back to endgame content asap, pve, pvp, wvw, and in order to do that i need to be able to test different builds and figure out what works for me, by doing that fast i can build my setup and start mastering combat, rotations, muscle memory and all that, would only be fair if all stat combination equipment from the same tier could be obtained with the same effort and through whatever content you feel like doing, not hidden behind specific content, time gated farm or single time reward systems..

If it's just testing, in the pvp lobby there is a testing area, and since it's in pvp all of the stuff is unlocked. You can make the char you want and just test it on golems. You'll see what playstyle you like or not and then just rebuild it in pve.

And again, no stat combo is hard gated. The only thing that are gated are specific skins. You can get some exotic stuff easily with the stats you need, or at least close enough.

Yo'll see when you get back into the game, it's not like you describe it.

[Chronos]

引用自 Drake：

引用自 Chronos：

I do have berserkers set from back then, I'm not getting back to the game for the "new player" experience, where everything is new or interesting and you're taking your time with everything, i'm trying to get back to endgame content asap, pve, pvp, wvw, and in order to do that i need to be able to test different builds and figure out what works for me, by doing that fast i can build my setup and start mastering combat, rotations, muscle memory and all that, would only be fair if all stat combination equipment from the same tier could be obtained with the same effort and through whatever content you feel like doing, not hidden behind specific content, time gated farm or single time reward systems..

If it's just testing, in the pvp lobby there is a testing area, and since it's in pvp all of the stuff is unlocked. You can make the char you want and just test it on golems. You'll see what playstyle you like or not and then just rebuild it in pve.

And again, no stat combo is hard gated. The only thing that are gated are specific skins. You can get some exotic stuff easily with the stats you need, or at least close enough.

Yo'll see when you get back into the game, it's not like you describe it.

I'll try to find that pvp lobby for testing purposes, ty, won't solve the whole problem, but having it as an option is better than nothing...

[Saber]

引用自 Chronos：

引用自 Chronos：

I took some time to check the first video in the first comment here, and it was cancerous how many steps you need to do just to get a single weapon the way you want, not even gonna talk about the part where he talks about trinkets, oh god, you can't really be serious if that is the fastest way to get a simple exotic set, even the guy mentions how weird or hard it becomes depending on the piece of gear you're looking for, while someone else that needs a cheap set probably just bought everything for a couple silver in the trading post, why not reward whichever piece of equipment one may want, from all kinds of content, and then make it a bit harder for the ascended versions ( harder does not mean time gated , that is completely nonsense for a 10 years old game with horizontal progression, you're just gating people trying to enjoy the game).

Oh, and at some point he said getting the weapon that way is a one time thing, even with all the crap you have to do to get it, so if you did all that crap and didn't enjoy your build, the "easiest" method won't work anymore for you, imagine if you're not following website builds and testing all this stuff by yourself, having to farm different stuff just to see what you want, lmao.. you're better off skipping to time gated ascended gear so if you mess up or don't enjoy you can try changing stats, but in order to unlock all of that, there is probably a lot more nonsense involved..

Ascended gear you can stat swap armor and weapons . Some of the trinkets you can do the same (pvp, wvw, fracal ones and blood stone fen set) With all of that you have a full stat swappable ascended set . Without spending all the mats and putting in the effort for a legendary .

As for testing what you want pvp hub is more then fine since you can use most of the stat combination runes and sigils to see if you might like a specific build . And you dont have to invest a single copper .

For any other deeper theory crafting about min maxing stuff sure you would be lacking gear but that's far from the biggest problem . As a new player your game mechanics knowledge is far behind people that make the build benchmarks, make build guides , or just share a build they made after hundreds of hours of game time in a specific game mode . Your rotation will be off , your position will be off , and you will definitely make way more mistakes then people who have played it for a long time .

So again dont waste time thinking about all of the things you might be missing .

The game is bountiful with loot . So while at start you might be lacking in things you want. It probably wont be long before you are able to get them from one of many game modes and events .

As for the specific example you saw in the video . Its just one of the ways you can get a ascended weapon . You can craft it , get a drop from a few open world bosses that have a chance for ascended drops , drops form pvp/wvw /fractals/raids/strikes , Some of the festival weapons are also ascended , Collections for class professions, Pvp/wvw/Raid/fractal/strike currency ....

Trinkets are not hard to get . You can get some (ascended )as drops from pvp/wvw/fractals/raids , trade in some map currency from living world , collections or trade in the fractal/raid/pvp/wvw currency .
Also you can craft some exotic ones or get few from the trade post .
Theres even a legendary amulet you get for completing all of the story bits .

All of your fear is based on 2. hand info of you watching other people list some of the ways they got the gear . While the same videos helped other people it seams it scared you from even trying and playing the game . And all that before you even played the current version of it and saw if you like it or not in the first place .

Also here's more info that can "scare " you
So You Want To Gear a Character[wiki.guildwars2.com]

[ChiasaChan]

引用自 Chronos：

引用自 ChiasaChan Allkeyshop：

Your Tl;dr = It's how I say and anyone disagreeing is wrong and just cannot see it. Good that you are willing to spare people the details of your issues that are there because you say so and make the game bad for everyone except the old players who are just too blind to understand your pain.

You could've at least have read the intro before jumping to the tl;dr, never said the game was bad, and the fact that the only thing you took out of all that was something that wasn't even said makes it impossible to argue with.. LOL

A) Your Tl,dr literally starts with "It is not simple, fun, rewarding or engaging to get into this game or return to it". While "simple" may be neutral, calling a game "NOT FUN, NOT REWARDING" and "NOT ENGAGING" clearly makes the game look bad and you don't have to use the word "bad" to make a game look bad.

B) I did read all of your posts, even the one that got deleted where you first tried to make people go watch that horrible video about a guy complaining about non-issues, then claiming all the comments support him. Reality is that when you scroll down a little you find plenty of comments disagreeing. Also if you would have the browser extension installed that reverts the change that youtube made to hide downvotes, you would see that the video had almost half of as many downvotes as upvotes.

C) I did not look at your Tl,dr only, but my post was clearly referencing your Tl,dr only, without hiding this fact. It is you who is assuming that what I wrote is an answer/judgment to ALL you wrote instead of realizing that it clearly is about the Tl,dr you ended with.

Laugh all you want. Fools like to laugh at others.

[Chronos]

引用自 ChiasaChan Allkeyshop：

引用自 Chronos：

You could've at least have read the intro before jumping to the tl;dr, never said the game was bad, and the fact that the only thing you took out of all that was something that wasn't even said makes it impossible to argue with.. LOL

A) Your Tl,dr literally starts with "It is not simple, fun, rewarding or engaging to get into this game or return to it". While "simple" may be neutral, calling a game "NOT FUN, NOT REWARDING" and "NOT ENGAGING" clearly makes the game look bad and you don't have to use the word "bad" to make a game look bad.

B) I did read all of your posts, even the one that got deleted where you first tried to make people go watch that horrible video about a guy complaining about non-issues, then claiming all the comments support him. Reality is that when you scroll down a little you find plenty of comments disagreeing. Also if you would have the browser extension installed that reverts the change that youtube made to hide downvotes, you would see that the video had almost half of as many downvotes as upvotes.

C) I did not look at your Tl,dr only, but my post was clearly referencing your Tl,dr only, without hiding this fact. It is you who is assuming that what I wrote is an answer/judgment to ALL you wrote instead of realizing that it clearly is about the Tl,dr you ended with.

Laugh all you want. Fools like to laugh at others.

A - all of that was meant towards a lot of people starting out or trying to return to it, you're taking it out of context while clearly being incapable of recognizing game flaws, you gotta be a real fan boy to think any game is perfect.

B - I didn't delete it, Anet did, also, just because the video has people disagreeing doesn't mean other people can't feel that way about the game, if other people's frustrations and perceptions bothers you so much, you should stay away from game communities and game related social interactions.

C - You sound like you're butthurt about people noticing flaws in your favorite game, that's all, if you could make a point by providing info on why there isn't any issue with how the mentioned systems work instead of providing a workaround solution, a lot more could be taken from this discussion, all you're trying to do is tell people they're wrong for feeling overwhelmed, frustrated or showing discontent in general ...

I'm not laughing at you personally, i'm laughing at what/how you said, i have no grudge against anyone..

[Pigeon Cat]

Personally, I don't think it's that much of an issue. I first played GW2 a few years ago, and I never got to legendary or even 100% ascended gear, but I still had a ton of fun clearing the first two expansions, and even playing WvW. Having gear that's better than other people's is a nice feeling, but it's absolutely unnecessary to make a build work - the only exception is extremely competitive WvW settings, if you're trying to do a 1vX montage or something, where only having exotic gear can make a difference.

I'd also argue that the horizontal progression system is more of a reason to not make acquiring legendary gear easier. Part of what makes it feel so good is the work and the journey to get it. Buying out a legendary isn't as rewarding, and for crafting it's always a long journey, even if you've already got some of the materials needed from playing the game for a long time. While a new player is grinding towards this legendary item they want, there's absolutely nothing preventing them from playing the build they want.

If anything, maybe ascended gear should be a bit easier to farm, as it's not really all that cool to be that difficult to get, and it'd be nice to have it as a mid-way point for a stronger build between Exotic and Legendary. From personal experience I can say that you can totally do all of the expansion content and have fun with WvW with Exotic and Ascended gear, but if a player really likes a certain build, they should have a slightly easier time getting the Ascended gear for it, as the Legendary will be so hard.

[GhiMe]

Yeah, you're wrong. I played a year at 80 in green gear and randomly chosen traits. There is absolutely no gear checks or DPS barriers in core Tyria.

The expansions are another matter. They're harder and you have to know what you're doing. Spending the gold you get from doing the daily achievements will get you nearly best in slot gear, though, so there's no reason to be fussed. Gearing up seems confusing at first, but it's actually not that hard once you start.

[Quaiv]

Gearing up has never been an issue in GW2, for 95% of the game/community all you need is exotic stuff with sensible stats that you can easily get within a few weeks of active playing, starting from zero. If this is too much for you, MMORPGs are just not your thing.

[Chronos]

引用自 Quaiv：

Gearing up has never been an issue in GW2, for 95% of the game/community all you need is exotic stuff with sensible stats that you can easily get within a few weeks of active playing, starting from zero. If this is too much for you, MMORPGs are just not your thing.

This discussion has extended for so long that everyone had their turn to say their opinion about it in multiple discussions and right now feels like everyone's putting stuff on repeat, if you disagree, go and have fun and if you agree just deal with it ...