GW2 Problems for Starting/Returning Players

[Chronos]

Instead of just commenting about it elsewhere, i decided to see what other people think about one main issues i have with how the game deals with this aspect, it seems to bother a lot of players out there, and as a returning player from 10 years ago i can include myself in this situation.

Almost everyone knows by now that the game has horizontal progression and it is 10 years old, so most of it's current active player base is fully geared up, mutiple characters most likely, so here is what bothers me and as i've seen, a lot of people out in the community..

GEARING UP

Gear is separated by tier and stats distribuition, endgame tiers being Exotic < Ascended < Legendary, there's not much difference between those tiers when it comes to numbers, but they add a lot of flexibility/versatility with how easy you can switch stat combinations, builds, gear, spec, etc, and there is a lot of stat combinations that may work or not for different builds, setups and content.

Now keep in mind that your attacks, skills and rotations is directly related to the weapons you have equipped and also to your build setup.

So now we can talk about the first issue, based on all that, after doing some research, it is noticeable that when you get to level 80, depending on personal taste and gameplay style, different builds may grab your attention and when looking for gear you'll find out that some builds are fairly easy to obtain so you can start enjoying your build, while others simply punish you for wanting that playstyle, some gear sets will take you weeks or months to finish farming, while other fresh 80s can simply finish their builds in a few minutes and work on their next goal simply because of the price tag difference between some stat distributions compared to others, in the end you get punished for wanting to play the way you want, there's no clear advantage from one over the other, they just work for different builds..

Player - "i want to play with build X, it's so fun!!"

Game - "Nope, that's only for the rich kids or those that spent at least a few weeks in game, you have to start with build Y"

Player - "But, but the only reason for me to be playing this character is build X right now, and your game ad on steam said i can play the game the way i want!!"

Game - "I don't care, give me money so you can play with it or just wait and do content you don't enjoy for a few weeks to unlock it.."

Player - "But my friend is having fun with his build at fresh 80, he even managed to save some gold for his runes and some bags cause his gear is from the same tier as the one i want, but very cheap, why can't i do the same?"

Game - "*shrugs*, if you don't like it you either push through or quit it, i really don't care, i got your money already"

Now, how this issue aggravates is, while some people have their setup ready as soon as they hit 80, they can already work towards learning his build playstyle, rotations, muscle memory and feel like they're taking something out of their sessions, it's already helping them feel like they're achieving something and progressing towards their goals, while other people depending on which stat distribution they want, will have to settle for unoptimized builds and weapon setups that may not even be efficient or synergizes well enough, and may not have any purpose for them later on since they'll have to change everything up and start learning everything from scratch. Oh, and if at the end you don't get used to your expensive or time consuming build you just need to start it all over again. It is a bad design for a game with horizontal progression and extremely frustrating and confusing for a lot of people.

But there is a way around it, which is ascended gear, it allows you to switch playstyle and adapt easily ( i think), and pretty much all the active player base already have full ascended and legendary gear in multiple characters, but for some reason farming ascended gear takes time EVEN IF YOU PLAY THIS GAME 24/7, why? Because it is either locked behind a lot of gold, or time gated, you can't put time and effort into catching up to other players, you need to wait just for the sake of waiting, why are new players or returning players locked behind time gates while everyone else already have their stuff available to them for years?

Some will say that gear doesn't matter that much, you can do a lot with an unoptimized build, most of it comes from skill, but a lot of people just want to feel good about their character and their progression towards getting good at the game, so yeah, having stuff that doesn't make you better than anyone, matters when you're 10 years behind everyone else in every single aspect of the game, it's fine, people played to get good at it, to have knowledge about mechanics, builds, exploration, farm methods, PvE, PvP, they earned that through playtime, and the game again, has horizontal progression, so why stop new players from playing the way they want, at the end skill and the flexibility of ascended and legendary gear is what will separate one from the other, you're punishing people for wanting to play a specific way while others can benefit from it in a 10 years old game, some new players can have fun from the get go while others have to feel frustrated just because they want a specific build?

[Turin]

I understand why you might think that this is how gearing up works but it is not how it actually works. The problem with gearing a build you want is not that it is tough to make but that it is all over the place and tough to get it around your head at first. But it is nothing you cannot solve with looking things up.

First of all - the game has no gear treadmill thus any effort you do has value for ever. So even if Ascended gear did need as much effort as you think they do, it is something that you do only once and you enjoy the rewards for as long as you play the game. Gearing up is an in-game goal that is never invalidated when you are done.

Secondly the vast majority of the content is completely open to you while you gear up so you are not really missing much. The only content that you actually do need gear has ways of gearing up tied to it as rewards so it is not an issue. If you play raids, for example, gearing up after a while for multiple builds become inconsequential. In other word you gear up to optimize and learn the game better but you will not feel locked out before you do.

Finally there are a lot of ways to obtain selectable (meaning you can chose whatever stats for any build you want) stats both for exotics and ascended that does not require either a lot of gold or at lot of time. You have to invest a bit of time of course (it is still a game) but it is not too much of a grind (nowhere near what you think it takes). Especially compared to other MMOs and their gear grind. It is mostly just playing the game, which if you like the game, it will be what you are doing anyway.

Check out these guides for more details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdmJXIUgbGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7GzKAzRZsI

[Chronos]

Originally posted by Turin:

I understand why you might think that this is how gearing up works but it is not how it actually works. The problem with gearing a build you want is not that it is tough to make but that it is all over the place and tough to get it around your head at first. But it is nothing you cannot solve with looking things up.

First of all - the game has no gear treadmill thus any effort you do has value for ever. So even if Ascended gear did that as much as you think it does it is something that you do only once and you enjoy the rewards for as long as you play the game. Gearing up is an in-game goal that is never invalidated wen you are done.

Secondly the vast majority of the content is completely open to you while you gear up so you are not really missing much. The only content that you actually do need gear has ways of gearing up tied to it as rewards so there is is not an issue. If you play raids for example gearing up after a while for multiple builds become inconsequential.

Finally there are a lot of ways to obtain selectable stats both for exotics and ascended that does not require either a lot of gold or at lot of time. You have to invest a bit of time of course (it is still a game) but it is not too much of grind. Especially compared to other MMOs and their gear grind. It is mostly just playing the game, which if you like the game it will be what you are doing anyway.

Check out these guides for more details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdmJXIUgbGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7GzKAzRZsI

I do know about all that, yet the issue still remains, as long as i can have fun in 10 minutes with build X and have to wait weeks to have fun with build Y, the problem persists..

Another thing, most of the content is available, yes, but i've seen that some of the stuff is quite dead, like dungeons, fractals, whatever else there is, and why is that? Why isn't simple 5 man dungeons dropping exotic equipment with all different stat combinations so all builds can be finished the same way and fairly easy? Why is berserker pieces a few silver pieces while others are 15 gold or even more? Cause the system is broken, you can try to guide players throught the best path towards their desired set and build, but it won't be the same as the guy who just got to 80 and can enjoy their new build with just a few gold pieces, now while comparing these two players, put them in a situation where both didn't enjoy their new builds they worked on, what now? One of them didn't lose much time setting it up, but the other spent a lot of time to get there...

[SeaDog]

New and "better" builds are more a case of "I want" than "I need". Just play the game. Learn how to make gold. Learn how not to spend/waste gold. Learn how to use the build that you have. The "better" builds will come.

[Sychon]

You are demonizing the game and its playerbase.

Half the players don't have a single Legendary item on their account, let alone a full set.

If you are a long time player, you have done a lot of content and sure enough, the game rewards you with ascended items here and there as guaranteed rewards for certain achievements, as random drops from events, by doing end game group content or buying it from NPCs (trinkets, specifically). Still, it doesn't mean that everyone is geared in full ascended. Not by a long shot. Some even choose not to concern themselves with it, whatsoever.

You said it yourself, there is not much difference between the three tiers you mentioned.
Aim for Exotic at first after hitting level 80. Whatever stat combination you choose, exotic is the cheapest and you won't be behind anyone as the difference in numbers is not what makes you a better player.

Even the more expensive sets are rather easy to get a hold of. Unless you rush to level up, by the time you hit 80, you should have enough to buy a complete set. Do your daily achievements (2 gold a day) as that alone gives you enough to buy a single piece of even the more expensive crafted armour sets every week.

Alternatively, you can craft it yourself, since what you buy on the TP is crafted by other players and they tend to sell them for profit.

Another alternative is to settle for some other stat combination that, while not exactly what you want, is much cheaper, lets you play the build you want to play and then you can save up on currency and materials to craft or buy the exact stats that you ultimately aim for.

Concerning the ascended and legendary tiers, my advice is that, especially as a new player, those are not what you should strive for right out of the gate. They are by design long term goals, especially legendary. Get your exotic and then you can work for either of those.

[Chronos]

Originally posted by SeaDog:

New and "better" builds are more a case of "I want" than "I need". Just play the game. Learn how to make gold. Learn how not to spend/waste gold. Learn how to use the build that you have. The "better" builds will come.

Definitely not spending 100 dollars to feel frustrated, especially since no one is saying that what i wrote is wrong and why...

[ChiasaChan]

You are overthinking. Consider that you can play the game without making your character a carbon copy of what some websites says is the absolute optimum - you will still be fine. Chances are you will never even notice that your equipment does not have "the best" stats.

And obviously that does not mean you will do as good with completely random stats, it means there are cheaper alternatives to "the best" which will also be good. Sometimes "good enough" is good enough. If you choose to be a perfectionist, then the work that causes is on you ;)

[Turin]

Originally posted by Chronos:

Originally posted by Turin:

I understand why you might think that this is how gearing up works but it is not how it actually works. The problem with gearing a build you want is not that it is tough to make but that it is all over the place and tough to get it around your head at first. But it is nothing you cannot solve with looking things up.

First of all - the game has no gear treadmill thus any effort you do has value for ever. So even if Ascended gear did that as much as you think it does it is something that you do only once and you enjoy the rewards for as long as you play the game. Gearing up is an in-game goal that is never invalidated wen you are done.

Secondly the vast majority of the content is completely open to you while you gear up so you are not really missing much. The only content that you actually do need gear has ways of gearing up tied to it as rewards so there is is not an issue. If you play raids for example gearing up after a while for multiple builds become inconsequential.

Finally there are a lot of ways to obtain selectable stats both for exotics and ascended that does not require either a lot of gold or at lot of time. You have to invest a bit of time of course (it is still a game) but it is not too much of grind. Especially compared to other MMOs and their gear grind. It is mostly just playing the game, which if you like the game it will be what you are doing anyway.

Check out these guides for more details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdmJXIUgbGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7GzKAzRZsI

I do know about all that, yet the issue still remains, as long as i can have fun in 10 minutes with build X and have to wait weeks to have fun with build Y, the problem persists..

Another thing, most of the content is available, yes, but i've seen that some of the stuff is quite dead, like dungeons, fractals, whatever else there is, and why is that? Why isn't simple 5 man dungeons dropping exotic equipment with all different stat combinations so all builds can be finished the same way and fairly easy? Why is berserker pieces a few silver pieces while others are 15 gold or even more? Cause the system is broken, you can try to guide players throught the best path towards their desired set and build, but it won't be the same as the guy who just got to 80 and can enjoy their new build with just a few gold pieces, now while comparing these two players, put them in a situation where both didn't enjoy their new builds they worked on, what now? One of them didn't lose much time setting it up, but the other spent a lot of time to get there...

Fractals are not dead. They are the prime 5-man instance PvE content. And Dungeon are less played but you can still find people to do them and Dungeons actually do exactly that. they drop tokens that you can exchange for exotics of different stats.

Also prices to buy things depend on demand. More sought after stuff, or stuff that are added more recently will be more expensive. It is simple supply and demand.

I cannot really tell anything more than that if you already know the info. I can only tell you that even the less easy things to gear do not take as much as you think and it will not hamper your enjoyment while doing it and not have the full gear. The vast majority of the playerbase are not even fully geared and many have been playing for years without issue. In the end gearing up is just playing the game. If you do not enjoy playing the game to gear up, then gearing up is not your issue. You just do not like the game. What do you think you will be doing after you gear up? More or less playing the same game that you were playing while gearing up.

[Chronos]

Originally posted by Sychon:

You are demonizing the game and its playerbase.

Half the players don't have a single Legendary item on their account, let alone a full set.

If you are a long time player, you have done a lot of content and sure enough, the game rewards you with ascended items here and there as guaranteed rewards for certain achievements, as random drops from events, by doing end game group content or buying it from NPCs (trinkets, specifically). Still, it doesn't mean that everyone is geared in full ascended. Not by a long shot. Some even choose not to concern themselves with it, whatsoever.

You said it yourself, there is not much difference between the three tiers you mentioned.
Aim for Exotic at first after hitting level 80. Whatever stat combination you choose, exotic is the cheapest and you won't be behind anyone as the difference in numbers is not what makes you a better player.

Even the more expensive sets are rather easy to get a hold of. Unless you rush to level up, by the time you hit 80, you should have enough to buy a complete set. Do your daily achievements (2 gold a day) as that alone gives you enough to buy a single piece of even the more expensive crafted armour sets every week.

Alternatively, you can craft it yourself, since what you buy on the TP is crafted by other players and they tend to sell them for profit.

Another alternative is to settle for some other stat combination that, while not exactly what you want, is much cheaper, lets you play the build you want to play and then you can save up on currency and materials to craft or buy the exact stats that you ultimately aim for.

Concerning the ascended and legendary tiers, my advice is that, especially as a new player, those are not what you should strive for right out of the gate. They are by design long term goals, especially legendary. Get your exotic and then you can work for either of those.

Yet the problem persists, some people will have pretty much what they're looking for almost instant, while others will have to work harder for it, they did the same thing and yet are rewarded differently, and this does impact gameplay and the feeling of personal progression for some people.

As a returning player i really don't feel like starting over and taking my time with it, i want to get to the content i enjoy doing and want to focus on also the content that i haven't played yet, and it would be very much appreciated if i could gear up as easy as anyone else with any other build, not work harder cause i want something different, ppl still figuring what they want may not even see a problem in this, by the time they figure out they'll have enough to work on it...

[Chronos]

I know Anet is filtering threads with youtube links that tackles issues with the game so, if you want a deeper understanding of the problem based on current active players and veterans, check the video with the name "A HUGE Problem" by Kroof, if you don't really want to go through the video, read all the comments and you'll understand how active players feel a lot of the times..

[Drake]

Originally posted by Chronos:

Originally posted by Sychon:

You are demonizing the game and its playerbase.

Half the players don't have a single Legendary item on their account, let alone a full set.

If you are a long time player, you have done a lot of content and sure enough, the game rewards you with ascended items here and there as guaranteed rewards for certain achievements, as random drops from events, by doing end game group content or buying it from NPCs (trinkets, specifically). Still, it doesn't mean that everyone is geared in full ascended. Not by a long shot. Some even choose not to concern themselves with it, whatsoever.

You said it yourself, there is not much difference between the three tiers you mentioned.
Aim for Exotic at first after hitting level 80. Whatever stat combination you choose, exotic is the cheapest and you won't be behind anyone as the difference in numbers is not what makes you a better player.

Even the more expensive sets are rather easy to get a hold of. Unless you rush to level up, by the time you hit 80, you should have enough to buy a complete set. Do your daily achievements (2 gold a day) as that alone gives you enough to buy a single piece of even the more expensive crafted armour sets every week.

Alternatively, you can craft it yourself, since what you buy on the TP is crafted by other players and they tend to sell them for profit.

Another alternative is to settle for some other stat combination that, while not exactly what you want, is much cheaper, lets you play the build you want to play and then you can save up on currency and materials to craft or buy the exact stats that you ultimately aim for.

Concerning the ascended and legendary tiers, my advice is that, especially as a new player, those are not what you should strive for right out of the gate. They are by design long term goals, especially legendary. Get your exotic and then you can work for either of those.

Yet the problem persists, some people will have pretty much what they're looking for almost instant, while others will have to work harder for it, they did the same thing and yet are rewarded differently, and this does impact gameplay and the feeling of personal progression for some people.

As a returning player i really don't feel like starting over and taking my time with it, i want to get to the content i enjoy doing and want to focus on also the content that i haven't played yet, and it would be very much appreciated if i could gear up as easy as anyone else with any other build, not work harder cause i want something different, ppl still figuring what they want may not even see a problem in this, by the time they figure out they'll have enough to work on it...

What is exactly the gear you need ? Becasue you're talking about like farming for weeks to get specific gear where some people need just days. That's not true at all.

The game a certain type of gear that are statless. You give them the stats you need when you get them.
Those items are very, very easy to get. I geared a friend of mine that was starting the game in less that 3 days by doing 3 maps (verdant brink, bitterfrost frontier and dragonfall). And you can do that, whatever the stat you need.
It's not going to be ascended gear sure, but it doesn't matter, as ascended gear is not a serious gap in power.
Using your head you could also mix match other types of gear to get the values you need.

Because ultimately, when you gear you don't want your char to have let's say grieving gear or trailblazer gear or whatever, you want you char to have a certain value for different stats. And there are enough combinations to mixmatch other types of gear to get what you need.

Nothing is going to prevent you to play your build how you want to play it, your skill is what defines your build.

Gear is not an issue. I would say if issue there is, it's most definitely entering raid pugs when they ask for killproofs you don't have because no one wants you in the group becasue they don't trust your skills (and for kind of good reason, people are bad a positioning and don't train it unless their forced too).

[Sychon]

Originally posted by Chronos:

Yet the problem persists, some people will have pretty much what they're looking for almost instant, while others will have to work harder for it, they did the same thing and yet are rewarded differently, and this does impact gameplay and the feeling of personal progression for some people.

As a returning player i really don't feel like starting over and taking my time with it, i want to get to the content i enjoy doing and want to focus on also the content that i haven't played yet, and it would be very much appreciated if i could gear up as easy as anyone else with any other build, not work harder cause i want something different, ppl still figuring what they want may not even see a problem in this, by the time they figure out they'll have enough to work on it...

The difference in costs is the result of the game's economy. Some stat combinations need rarer crafting materials, some are more popular than others, these all drive the prices up. Core stats are usually the cheapest as the materials needed have been in the game since launch. Stat combos introduced in the expansions more often than not require some exotic material also introduced in the expansions which means you can only farm it by doing expansion content.

I understand that coming into the game 10 years on has you wondering why these things are the way they are and maybe the explanation doesn't help you either but the this is the state of things and it's unlikely to change, definitely not rapidly and definitely not drastically.

I would say aim lower. Instead of Viper's (expansion combo) go for, say, a mix of Berserker's and Rabid (both core) for a sixth of the price tag. There's probably a better alternative but I'm not a build expert, anyway. You get the idea, hopefully.

[Turin]

Originally posted by Chronos:

I know Anet is filtering threads with youtube links that tackles issues with the game so, if you want a deeper understanding of the problem based on current active players and veterans, check the video with the name "A HUGE Problem" by Kroof, if you don't really want to go through the video, read all the comments and you'll understand how active players feel a lot of the times..

I love KROOF to death but they are not correct in this case. The problem is not that gear are tough to get. It is pretty easy. The problem is that it is not communicated well in-game for a new player, which is what Bloom's videos and other like that solve.

Like what are you missing by gear up for a few weeks? What do you want to play that you are locked out of?

Also please lay off the conspiracy theories. We are replying to you assuming good faith and to help.

[SeaDog]

Originally posted by Chronos:

Originally posted by SeaDog:

New and "better" builds are more a case of "I want" than "I need". Just play the game. Learn how to make gold. Learn how not to spend/waste gold. Learn how to use the build that you have. The "better" builds will come.

Definitely not spending 100 dollars to feel frustrated, especially since no one is saying that what i wrote is wrong and why...

You haven't even played the game yet? And you are complaining about it? I'm sorry that my previous post wasn't clear enough but YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! It is simple to get exotic gear. There so many ways to get it without spending a single copper. If, upon playing the game, you can't figure that out then you are playing the wrong kind of game. Exotic gear can be used in ALL content and on every build. You can expect to increase your damage by only around 5% when "upgrading" to ascended or legendary gear IF you play your class "correctly". Exotic gear has all the same stat combinations available as ascended and legendary gear so you can do every build with exotic that you can with ascended or legendary. That's right: EVERY BUILD.

Before you get yourself into a fit about spending $100, there have been numerous threads here, already, advising people not to buy any DLCs before you try the game. On a F2P account you can level a character to lvl 80 and experience 100s of hours of content. If you buy all the DLCs before you play, you STILL have to level a character to lvl 80 in the same zones and content all the F2P folks are playing, before you can even touch any of the DLCs. Don't use a lvl 80 token before you learn to play the game and your selected class.
You will most certainly be frustrated if you buy the $100 total package, pop a token, and try to play EOD without ever doing the core zones and leveling on your own. You learn to play the game by leveling and playing in the core zones.

This game has something for everyone. Some folks love the build game. But the build game is just one aspect of a game that has so much more. Don't talk yourself out of trying it. There are robust communities in GW2 that are more than willing to help you with anything you need.

[Drake]

Originally posted by Sychon:

Originally posted by Chronos:

Yet the problem persists, some people will have pretty much what they're looking for almost instant, while others will have to work harder for it, they did the same thing and yet are rewarded differently, and this does impact gameplay and the feeling of personal progression for some people.

As a returning player i really don't feel like starting over and taking my time with it, i want to get to the content i enjoy doing and want to focus on also the content that i haven't played yet, and it would be very much appreciated if i could gear up as easy as anyone else with any other build, not work harder cause i want something different, ppl still figuring what they want may not even see a problem in this, by the time they figure out they'll have enough to work on it...

The difference in costs is the result of the game's economy. Some stat combinations need rarer crafting materials, some are more popular than others, these all drive the prices up. Core stats are usually the cheapest as the materials needed have been in the game since launch. Stat combos introduced in the expansions more often than not require some exotic material also introduced in the expansions which means you can only farm it by doing expansion content.

I understand that coming into the game 10 years on has you wondering why these things are the way they are and maybe the explanation doesn't help you either but the this is the state of things and it's unlikely to change, definitely not rapidly and definitely not drastically.

I would say aim lower. Instead of Viper's (expansion combo) go for, say, a mix of Berserker's and Rabid (both core) for a sixth of the price tag. There's probably a better alternative but I'm not a build expert, anyway. You get the idea, hopefully.

Guys, just farm a bladed armor in verdant brink, that already covers the armor. Why are you trying to craft stuff that expensive when there is already a free alternative. You might get some trouble with the torso (because that's the max reward for the meta) but that already covers a big chuck of the gear. Then for trinkets, the living story maps can give you easy access to ascended trinkets (you do bitterfrost frontier, dragonfall and maybe a third one if you want to go faster).

You're going to be ugly yes, but you'll function.

[Sychon]

Originally posted by Drake:

Originally posted by Sychon:

The difference in costs is the result of the game's economy. Some stat combinations need rarer crafting materials, some are more popular than others, these all drive the prices up. Core stats are usually the cheapest as the materials needed have been in the game since launch. Stat combos introduced in the expansions more often than not require some exotic material also introduced in the expansions which means you can only farm it by doing expansion content.

I understand that coming into the game 10 years on has you wondering why these things are the way they are and maybe the explanation doesn't help you either but the this is the state of things and it's unlikely to change, definitely not rapidly and definitely not drastically.

I would say aim lower. Instead of Viper's (expansion combo) go for, say, a mix of Berserker's and Rabid (both core) for a sixth of the price tag. There's probably a better alternative but I'm not a build expert, anyway. You get the idea, hopefully.

Guys, just farm a bladed armor in verdant brink, that already covers the armor. Why are you trying to craft stuff that expensive when there is already a free alternative. You might get some trouble with the torso (because that's the max reward for the meta) but that already covers a big chuck of the gear. Then for trinkets, the living story maps can give you easy access to ascended trinkets (you do bitterfrost frontier, dragonfall and maybe a third one if you want to go faster).

You're going to be ugly yes, but you'll function.

It's level 80 content. They would already want to be fully geared to enjoy that content.