Attack Speed? DPS?

[Blitz4]

What is the base attack speed of the warrior, rogue and necro? Any info you have will help.

[untotenspieler]

they all got the same atk speed,but for Necro atk speed = speed of summon skeletons,

[Newbie Moontee Mk.I]

...well like it's name
the more of Attack Speed the faster you hit the enemy

careful though
hero will getting tired if he out of the stamina
so there's point that you should not add anymore Attack Speed

[Yggdrasil Burnes]

Originally posted by Newbie Moontee Mk.I:

...well like it's name
the more of Attack Speed the faster you hit the enemy

careful though
hero will getting tired if he out of the stamina
so there's point that you should not add anymore Attack Speed

Except on Necromancer.
Necromancer becomes more powerful indefinitely with Attack Speed, because he never needs to attack himself, and his Stamina is a non-issue if he evades.

[Doombringer]

warrior 0.6 attacks/second
necro is much slower, but starts with 1st 'attack' 85% charged

[MyNameMeansBentNose]

You can get around the stamina problem with enough vamp. Every time your hero gets hit they regain stamina. With enough vamp, enemy archers in the third row end up replenishing the stamina of the hero through the fight.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Yggdrasil Burnes:

Originally posted by Newbie Moontee Mk.I:

...well like it's name
the more of Attack Speed the faster you hit the enemy

careful though
hero will getting tired if he out of the stamina
so there's point that you should not add anymore Attack Speed

Except on Necromancer.
Necromancer becomes more powerful indefinitely with Attack Speed, because he never needs to attack himself, and his Stamina is a non-issue if he evades.

Stop spreading misinformation.

Necromancer makes attacks whenever he doesn't have a summon to summon. If your attack speed is too fast, all he will do after he finishes summoning is attack for pitiful amounts of damage and wear himself out.

[Yggdrasil Burnes]

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Originally posted by Yggdrasil Burnes:

Except on Necromancer.
Necromancer becomes more powerful indefinitely with Attack Speed, because he never needs to attack himself, and his Stamina is a non-issue if he evades.

Stop spreading misinformation.

Necromancer makes attacks whenever he doesn't have a summon to summon. If your attack speed is too fast, all he will do after he finishes summoning is attack for pitiful amounts of damage and wear himself out.

Implying he never has to summon a skeleton in the middle of battle, especially when built even remotely competently for more than 2 skeletons.

The main two builds for long runs are More Skeletons + Lay Down Life + Residual Heat, which emphasizes tons of weak skeletons at a maching-gun summon speed to out-heal and out-defend by proxy, and More Skeletons + Higher Quality Skeletons, which makes Skeletons guards that get dogpiled instead of you.

Both builds rely on ludicrously high attack speed. If you are ever in the Orange as Necromancer, you are seriously missing something.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Yggdrasil Burnes:

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Stop spreading misinformation.

Necromancer makes attacks whenever he doesn't have a summon to summon. If your attack speed is too fast, all he will do after he finishes summoning is attack for pitiful amounts of damage and wear himself out.

Implying he never has to summon a skeleton in the middle of battle, especially when built even remotely competently for more than 2 skeletons.

The main two builds for long runs are More Skeletons + Lay Down Life + Residual Heat, which emphasizes tons of weak skeletons at a maching-gun summon speed to out-heal and out-defend by proxy, and More Skeletons + Higher Quality Skeletons, which makes Skeletons guards that get dogpiled instead of you.

Both builds rely on ludicrously high attack speed. If you are ever in the Orange as Necromancer, you are seriously missing something.

And you are never guaranteed to get any of those traits. What do you do when you aren't offered them? Reset repeatedly until you do?

Why not build a more stable necromancer build? One that can win every time rather than only when you roll favorably?

[Yggdrasil Burnes]

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Why not build a more stable necromancer build? One that can win every time rather than only when you roll favorably?

Like?

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Yggdrasil Burnes:

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Why not build a more stable necromancer build? One that can win every time rather than only when you roll favorably?

Like?

Slow everything else down so that you don't need blazing attack speed with Oasis. It also gets you around the 2 second death animation problem for your skeletons, which people just choose to ignore. You'll continue to swing during the time they are dying and easily go into stamina fatigue if they all die at once.

Oasis has been far more stable a build and I have no issues beating the game every single time no matter what traits come up. Add in thickets to help keep your stamina up , and you don't need to bring your attack speed to stupid levels. Just to reasonable levels to stay ahead of the monsters. Plus on the final boss, he can't counter the Oasis debuff, only your own stats.

[Yggdrasil Burnes]

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Originally posted by Yggdrasil Burnes:

Like?

Slow everything else down so that you don't need blazing attack speed with Oasis. It also gets you around the 2 second death animation problem for your skeletons, which people just choose to ignore. You'll continue to swing during the time they are dying and easily go into stamina fatigue if they all die at once.

Oasis has been far more stable a build and I have no issues beating the game every single time no matter what traits come up. Add in thickets to help keep your stamina up , and you don't need to bring your attack speed to stupid levels. Just to reasonable levels to stay ahead of the monsters. Plus on the final boss, he can't counter the Oasis debuff, only your own stats.

You are literally agreeing with me in reverse. There isn't a soul who unlocked Thickets and Dunes that doesn't use them religiously. Rocks and Meadows are useless compared to them. Oases and Burnt Forests are amazing interactions too, but by that same logic, you're never guaranteed to get those cards. I got to loop 10 in Chapter 3 before a single River was in my hand once. To be blunt, I've played almost 60 hours by now and, even at 100 Attack Speed, have yet to have my necromancer even break half of his stamina.

When you say he can be exhausted, I simply don't believe you.

Deck-Build aside, I was under the impression we were talking about Hero builds from Perks and Equipment, things that you control more dynamically during the expedition. You can't get more skeletons from Thickets and Dunes. You can't get de-facto Defense or Healing from your skeletons dying with Rivers. As for Perks, this also implies you aren't using at least 5x6 suburbs. If you aren't Level 4 by Loop 6 anyways, you're bottlenecking somewhere. Getting at least one or two good perks has never been an issue for me, especially since most of Necros Perks are run-saving anyways.

If you never unlock any other perks, you actually ARE guaranteed to get these perks every game. If you do unlock any other perks, or every other perk, you're guaranteed to get few more situational perks occasionally, or just entire hands of useless perks. I'd actually vouch for a Perk Deck Builder in the future, but that's just me, so for the time being, I've unlocked two perks from Chapter II, and I don't intend to unlock any more for the time being.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Yggdrasil Burnes:

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Slow everything else down so that you don't need blazing attack speed with Oasis. It also gets you around the 2 second death animation problem for your skeletons, which people just choose to ignore. You'll continue to swing during the time they are dying and easily go into stamina fatigue if they all die at once.

Oasis has been far more stable a build and I have no issues beating the game every single time no matter what traits come up. Add in thickets to help keep your stamina up , and you don't need to bring your attack speed to stupid levels. Just to reasonable levels to stay ahead of the monsters. Plus on the final boss, he can't counter the Oasis debuff, only your own stats.

You are literally agreeing with me in reverse. There isn't a soul who unlocked Thickets and Dunes that doesn't use them religiously. Rocks and Meadows are useless compared to them. Oases and Burnt Forests are amazing interactions too, but by that same logic, you're never guaranteed to get those cards. I got to loop 10 in Chapter 3 before a single River was in my hand once. To be blunt, I've played almost 60 hours by now and, even at 100 Attack Speed, have yet to have my necromancer even break half of his stamina.

When you say he can be exhausted, I simply don't believe you.

Deck-Build aside, I was under the impression we were talking about Hero builds from Perks and Equipment, things that you control more dynamically during the expedition. You can't get more skeletons from Thickets and Dunes. You can't get de-facto Defense or Healing from your skeletons dying with Rivers. As for Perks, this also implies you aren't using at least 5x6 suburbs. If you aren't Level 4 by Loop 6 anyways, you're bottlenecking somewhere. Getting at least one or two good perks has never been an issue for me, especially since most of Necros Perks are run-saving anyways.

If you never unlock any other perks, you actually ARE guaranteed to get these perks every game. If you do unlock any other perks, or every other perk, you're guaranteed to get few more situational perks occasionally, or just entire hands of useless perks. I'd actually vouch for a Perk Deck Builder in the future, but that's just me, so for the time being, I've unlocked two perks from Chapter II, and I don't intend to unlock any more for the time being.

To be fair, you never once said you were using oasis. When people talk about just thickets, usually they talk about builds that top out about ~550% attack speed, which can drain stamina in about a second which is half the time of the death animation of the skeletons. I've been trying to counter this build for a long time because as I said, it's very unreliable and requires very specific traits. There's even a necromancer guide which is little more than a meme on here now for that.

As for boss traits, many people would be upset at having to reset their entire run because they took boss traits, plus I feel there are more than a few that are useful. The 20% chance to do 3 quick strikes at 50% damage is great for necromancer because it works for all of your skeletons too, even on a counterattack. This means if you get hit, there's a 15% chance all of your skeletons, even archers/mages, counterattack, and 20% of them will triple attack, turning into a huge nuke.

There's a few others, but they escape me. Still, with the bug fix to the 3rd boss, necromancer has gotten even more consistent anyways. That was the biggest hurdle, requiring the damage splitting before. Now not so much. I've beaten it without it.

[Lorska]

I tend to get comfy on necro around 150-200% AS
You can get more but it's too annoying to balance attack speed and skeleton death rate so your necro doesn't start tickling people with his bone fingers... around loop 100 you'll see what too much attack speed is, when rings drop that give you 300-500% of it.
No you don't have to go to such an absurd loop count every game but it does show how bad too much attack speed can be.

Though tbh necro items are just screwed up. +1 summon doesn't scale at all, quality doesn't go above 30% so any non-common item you find later on is just trash...

[Norðtann]

what does quality actually do over 100%?

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by erik22:

what does quality actually do over 100%?

Make you wish it did something over 100%