Strinova

Strinova

60 Dec 17, 2024 @ 1:52pm
Attackers vs. Defenders
Can anyone explain why the team that starts out as defenders seems to lose most of their rounds in most games?
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Malamasala Dec 17, 2024 @ 2:13pm 
I think that is by game design.

The most obvious thing that tend to happen is that defenders spread out to cover multiple possible attack paths. And if the attacking team run as a group, they will always be the winners in a firefight.

Defenders could make sure to walk as a group to ensure an even fight, but demolition for example has two bomb points so you might not be at the right spot to defend.

In the case of escort it is also an advantage to be able to flatten yourself on the truck to escort it as an attacker. Not to mention the game is not heavy on healer classes so prolonged defense is hard and most of the time the attackers will kill most of you and be able to escort the truck further.

Something I've reacted to is also that seemingly a lot of the escort maps seem to have ledges that much more favor attackers than defenders. It is hard to get a good view towards the attackers which have many paths, but defenders always come the same paths.
60 Dec 17, 2024 @ 3:22pm 
Originally posted by Malamasala:
I think that is by game design.

The most obvious thing that tend to happen is that defenders spread out to cover multiple possible attack paths. And if the attacking team run as a group, they will always be the winners in a firefight.

Defenders could make sure to walk as a group to ensure an even fight, but demolition for example has two bomb points so you might not be at the right spot to defend.

In the case of escort it is also an advantage to be able to flatten yourself on the truck to escort it as an attacker. Not to mention the game is not heavy on healer classes so prolonged defense is hard and most of the time the attackers will kill most of you and be able to escort the truck further.

Something I've reacted to is also that seemingly a lot of the escort maps seem to have ledges that much more favor attackers than defenders. It is hard to get a good view towards the attackers which have many paths, but defenders always come the same paths.
That sounds more like a balancing issue than game design
Airlick Dec 17, 2024 @ 3:24pm 
The maps are attacker favored by design. Every single site in the game has at least 3 entry points (usually more), so they are literally impossible to hold with a numbers disadvantage, assuming relatively equal skill. You also can't trade as defender since the TTK is very long and the attackers will most likely be able to rescue whoever gets knocked down.

The only thing you can do as defender is try to stall as much as possible while expending as little utility as possible and losing as little HP as possible, but past that, you should always just back off and wait for you team to rotate/flank and go for the retake - because then you are the attackers and you are favored, while the disadvantage is that you're on a timer.

There are also always stupid people who don't understand any of that and WILL just rush into 5 attackers, get a knock down (or usually not even) and get killed in return - but at least they die with a feeling of a job well done, I guess. But that makes it even more skewed towards the attackers.
Yukito For Ever Dec 17, 2024 @ 4:55pm 
Because idiots don't understand this is a TEAM game and not Call of Duty where they pretend to get kill after kill after kill, don't use any skills, don't use throwables, and others besides have a serious problem with frustration tolerance.
Waryth Dec 17, 2024 @ 5:01pm 
Originally posted by 60:
Originally posted by 60:
Can anyone explain why the team that starts out as defenders seems to lose most of their rounds in most games?
That sounds more like a balancing issue than game design
I'll explain the reasoning behind this.

The game is balanced it's just that majority of the people here don't know what they're doing and how to play the game right.

Majority of this complaints as an example would be Escort's mode where players just stick to the payload. What they don't know is that YOU can stick to the payload too and counter it the same way. There's body collision if you turn paper, you can prevent the person in the payload from circling around and have a teammate finish it off or you turn back 3D together and resume the gunfight in case you don't have grenades to flush someone out.

Also in demolition mode, it varies on points but as defenders, everyone should be knowing how to regroup fast with the map knowledge but people have no idea where to roam around and regroup or flank. Premades or high level solo players (like me) are able to know what they should do at times like this. I always use pings every single time marking enemies on the map winning as defenders majority of the time. It's always the casual players who thinks about unbalance when its just them who's having this issue.

There's mechanics where you can glide faster at higher heights faster than sprinting and even double jumping to throw off aim or bait. The ones under level 30s have no idea how any of this works which contributes to losing as defenders. I usually take Sentinel (Michelle, Nobunaga or Audrey) and actually defend a point right.

In Escort mode, you can PUSH back the cart as DEFENDER if most of your team is stopping the payload nearby just as how the attackers can push it. It's balanced as it is. Nobody just knows how to defend properly.
Aimee Dec 17, 2024 @ 6:18pm 
Honnestly i think this is more a difference between the skill level and understanding of the game between the two teams.
A good attacking team will push in together quickly and turn an attack into a defense situation, to take control of part of the map and the bomb area.
A good defensive team will respond quickly, set up defences to give an advantage, and find ways to delay or outplay the attacking team.

For the defending team, its very easy to set up an advantage. Since not only can you be pre-aimed towards where the attackers have to come from, but you can set up abilities and defenses like throwables and abilities well before the battle fully starts.
However this ofcourse comes with the tradeoff that you need to rotate and defend another part of the map quickly in order to actualy delay the attacking team enough to win.

As for attackers, they are always at a disadvantage having to push into a bunkered down enemy, through a set amount of pathways. The only benefit you have is numbers and the fact that the enemy is most likely split up while you attack. However only teams that understand this and can make that situation their advantage realy benefit from it. So many times have i seen attacking teams just trade shots and bunker down, giving the defenders time to regroup and take new angles.

Its honnestly tactics, understanding of the game and how to exploit the benefits you do have, and finaly working together as a team to make it happen.
I win most of my games regardless of attack or defense, but when i lose either side, its always for the same reasons.
76561199380896380 Dec 18, 2024 @ 10:25pm 
Originally posted by Malamasala:
I think that is by game design.

The most obvious thing that tend to happen is that defenders spread out to cover multiple possible attack paths. And if the attacking team run as a group, they will always be the winners in a firefight.

Defenders could make sure to walk as a group to ensure an even fight, but demolition for example has two bomb points so you might not be at the right spot to defend.

In the case of escort it is also an advantage to be able to flatten yourself on the truck to escort it as an attacker. Not to mention the game is not heavy on healer classes so prolonged defense is hard and most of the time the attackers will kill most of you and be able to escort the truck further.

Something I've reacted to is also that seemingly a lot of the escort maps seem to have ledges that much more favor attackers than defenders. It is hard to get a good view towards the attackers which have many paths, but defenders always come the same paths.
I think the demolition is just something like that: defenders get info advantage(at low enough cost), and attackers get strategy flexibility.

With the game going on, they may lose utilities ,attackers may lose one who carry the bomb (for example,head shot by Madelena from site C bottom, killed by 3 grenades or blown up by windnade when planting, failed rush in site B due to Fei's icy area, and interceptor intercepts interceptors :).

After these trade, the game balance has been changed. even in that 3 site map, it is still possible for defender to keep info advantages. What they need to do when meeting rush is wait for retake and opportunities to use utilities, make sure X vs X-r and right strategy to get a point.

Also, it is important to learn how to take in pressure to wait for aid or push. It is obvious to use paper mode correctly to do it. Long TTK so the game is, after all. Then relevantly, aid teammate in time. These are really important to make out for a better team play.

Emm, something interesting is that due to the perspective, there's a theory of shooting: {LINK REMOVED}

So the movement is more important than any other things (except accuracy, they're equally important):
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Last edited by s15156637417; Dec 18, 2024 @ 10:26pm
Nepnep Dec 18, 2024 @ 10:44pm 
People are stupid. Everyone only knows how to press W.

By design, the W button favors attacking.
1. Their mini-maps are not zoomed-out. Did not notice when or where their teammates die, can't get trade kill.

2. Poor execution of "2-1-2" CSGO defence formation. Did not retreat when overwhelmed and die before teammates can rotate to even out numerical advantage. Teammates did not rotate.
Luxaeterna Dec 19, 2024 @ 4:45am 
No one picked Michele
Afangun Dec 19, 2024 @ 4:49am 
most of the people here don't take the right characters for the team and their grenades are just crap they also choose the wrong upgrades
and some people play worse than bots
Afangun Dec 19, 2024 @ 4:52am 
there’s simply no point in talking to some people because they tell you straight out that they don’t care about the game
I give up playing with people like this
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Date Posted: Dec 17, 2024 @ 1:52pm
Posts: 12