Not a souls-like

[Winston]

Yes, it has similarities to souls games, but they don't define the souls genre. The souls genre is difficult, mostly melee and has far less comfortable attacks.


Souls games lock you into a single difficulty, and all the wiggle room you have is achieved through your equipment. Remnant has difficulty settings where the easiest difficulty has the HP*DMG of bosses be less than 1/16 of that on the highest difficulty.


Melee means you have to get in close and commit to your attack because you can't just dodge mid-swing. In souls games, this applies even to ranged attacks. It's something you have to keep in mind at all times and is the central part of combat.

This does not apply to Remnant. In Remnant, you play by keeping your distance from the enemy and shoot with your very comfortable weapon.

In a souls game, if you're caught mid swing and the boss attacks, you take damage. In Remnant, if you're caught aiming and the boss attacks, you fire less shots than you would normally and roll away.

And yes, melee exists in Remnant. The most notable thing about it is that it's garbage. Sure, you can make a build you can beat the game with, but you can make a ranged build that's much better at it. Half the enemies fly, some enemies one-shot you regardless of how tanky you are, and you don't have the comfort of distance. It's why whenever you see a "melee only" run, it's always a lie because they use ranged attacks from their melees.

And many of the bosses are designed around this ranged combat. I don't see how bosses like Gwendil, Bloat king, Sha Hala, Custodian's eye, Corruptor, Mother mind, Legion, Shrewd, Sentinel, Annihilation, and Venom could work well in a souls game.


It takes much more than just checkpoints, respawning enemies and non-instant healing to have a soulslike.

[PortalShifter]

That's nice honey. Thank you for sharing your opinion with us.

[LT2483]

Originally posted by Winston:

Souls games lock you into a single difficulty, and all the wiggle room you have is achieved through your equipment. Remnant has difficulty settings where the easiest difficulty has the HP*DMG of bosses be less than 1/16 of that on the highest difficulty.

Woops, looks like you forgot Dark Souls games have NG+, increasing the difficulty as you continue to power up. Almost sounds like... Oh, maybe Remnant 2, where you put the difficulty up as you become more powerful.

Originally posted by Winston:

In a souls game, if you're caught mid swing and the boss attacks, you take damage. In Remnant, if you're caught aiming and the boss attacks, you fire less shots than you would normally and roll away.

Attack committing is an interesting point. While yes, the Dark Souls games are committing, most souls-likes I've played are actually non-committing (Including the Remnant games). The former rewards timing, while the latter rewards reacting.

It's also a funny thing to bring up, since it seems to be a major problem some people had with Elden Ring. Since many of the bosses had very long combos, people took issue with waiting for them to finish so they could fight back. Non-committing games don't have that problem, which is probably why they are in the majority (I think, that's not a statement that can be easily confirmed as fact).

Originally posted by Winston:

And many of the bosses are designed around this ranged combat.

Shocker. The game commonly described as "Souls with guns" is designed around ranged combat. Admittedly, people do wish a "True Melee" run of the game was possible, but that would limit the design space of bosses.

Originally posted by Winston:

It takes much more than just checkpoints, respawning enemies and non-instant healing to have a soulslike.

What else do you think a souls-like needs? Remnant 2 also has dodge rolls, stamina, a loot-first progression system, the same upgrade system for said loot, secret walls, a trash-strong-boss enemy design philosophy... And that's just stuff I can name off the top of my head. I would argue it's far more souls-like than many other games that also justifiably claim the genre.

[Noop]

The post is BS but I disagree that making melee good limits boss design. There just are too few melees that are good at dealing ranged damage and that could have easily been fixed with rings, amulets, legendary prism perk or a new archetype.

Same goes for explosive builds. A lot of them have medium range at best and can not reach certain bosses. But here you do have some ranged options too you can rely on for these bosses but it could have been much cleaner too.

The fact melee is trash is either cuz the devs simply didnt want it to be good or cuz they lack the creativity to implement it in a balanced way.

[Kappa]

I consider it a soulslike where, in addition to anything one already does in DS, the player has also to aim and, if they are good enough, to specifically aim for weakspots ( in order to increase their damage ).

Melee is, like in RftA, an extra ( worth mentioning that if the melee weapon the player is using also conjures projectiles, one may consider doing ranged bosses with "that specific melee weapon" ).

[Grizzly]

i bought it because i heared its souls like, i got what i came here for.

[Velmoria]

Mod Dark Souls game with shooting game mechanic, reduce player's side & backward move speed and increase overall enemy movement speed.
The game will become lot closer to Remnant 1 where majority of bosses are melee-able.

[Winston]

Originally posted by PortalShifter:

That's nice honey. Thank you for sharing your opinion with us.

ok

[Winston]

Originally posted by LT2483:

Originally posted by Winston:

Souls games lock you into a single difficulty, and all the wiggle room you have is achieved through your equipment. Remnant has difficulty settings where the easiest difficulty has the HP*DMG of bosses be less than 1/16 of that on the highest difficulty.

Woops, looks like you forgot Dark Souls games have NG+, increasing the difficulty as you continue to power up. Almost sounds like... Oh, maybe Remnant 2, where you put the difficulty up as you become more powerful.

Originally posted by Winston:

In a souls game, if you're caught mid swing and the boss attacks, you take damage. In Remnant, if you're caught aiming and the boss attacks, you fire less shots than you would normally and roll away.

Attack committing is an interesting point. While yes, the Dark Souls games are committing, most souls-likes I've played are actually non-committing (Including the Remnant games). The former rewards timing, while the latter rewards reacting.

It's also a funny thing to bring up, since it seems to be a major problem some people had with Elden Ring. Since many of the bosses had very long combos, people took issue with waiting for them to finish so they could fight back. Non-committing games don't have that problem, which is probably why they are in the majority (I think, that's not a statement that can be easily confirmed as fact).

Originally posted by Winston:

And many of the bosses are designed around this ranged combat.

Shocker. The game commonly described as "Souls with guns" is designed around ranged combat. Admittedly, people do wish a "True Melee" run of the game was possible, but that would limit the design space of bosses.

Originally posted by Winston:

It takes much more than just checkpoints, respawning enemies and non-instant healing to have a soulslike.

What else do you think a souls-like needs? Remnant 2 also has dodge rolls, stamina, a loot-first progression system, the same upgrade system for said loot, secret walls, a trash-strong-boss enemy design philosophy... And that's just stuff I can name off the top of my head. I would argue it's far more souls-like than many other games that also justifiably claim the genre.

And that difficulty you raise entirely by choice. It's not even that the game is forcing you into difficulty before you beat it. Veteran is mostly a walk in a park, and survivor is a joke.

And what would those soulslikes be? I'm basing my comment around Elden Ring and my limited experience with DS1 and Lies of P. And yeah, committing and long attacks is what made me hate Elden Ring.

If they're not designed around traditional souls combat, then they're not souls bosses. Souls with guns and no melee is like a train with wings and no wheels.

You don't play souls games for the stamina bar or invisible walls. You play it for the type of combat Remnant 2 distinctly lacks and it's what differentiates people who like souls games from those that don't. If I for one moment believed that either game is a souls-like, I wouldn't have played them.

[Winston]

Originally posted by Noop:

The post is BS but I disagree that making melee good limits boss design. There just are too few melees that are good at dealing ranged damage and that could have easily been fixed with rings, amulets, legendary prism perk or a new archetype.

Same goes for explosive builds. A lot of them have medium range at best and can not reach certain bosses. But here you do have some ranged options too you can rely on for these bosses but it could have been much cleaner too.

The fact melee is trash is either cuz the devs simply didnt want it to be good or cuz they lack the creativity to implement it in a balanced way.

You opened your comment with an unsubstantiated claim, used "but" for no reason and then attacked a point I didn't make.

[Winston]

Originally posted by Kappa:

I consider it a soulslike where, in addition to anything one already does in DS, the player has also to aim and, if they are good enough, to specifically aim for weakspots ( in order to increase their damage ).

Melee is, like in RftA, an extra ( worth mentioning that if the melee weapon the player is using also conjures projectiles, one may consider doing ranged bosses with "that specific melee weapon" ).

Did you read the thread by any chance? I don't like these comments where the response would just be an excerpt from the description.

[Winston]

Originally posted by Grizzly:

i bought it because i heared its souls like, i got what i came here for.

Impeccable argumentation, sire, I applaud thee!

[Winston]

Originally posted by Velmoria:

Mod Dark Souls game with shooting game mechanic, reduce player's side & backward move speed and increase overall enemy movement speed.
The game will become lot closer to Remnant 1 where majority of bosses are melee-able.

Wow, so something becomes different if you change it? You have a remarkable eye for detail and nuance! I believe you should be royal advisor to sire Grizzly.

[Velmoria]

Originally posted by Winston:

Originally posted by Velmoria:

Mod Dark Souls game with shooting game mechanic, reduce player's side & backward move speed and increase overall enemy movement speed.
The game will become lot closer to Remnant 1 where majority of bosses are melee-able.

Wow, so something becomes different if you change it? You have a remarkable eye for detail and nuance! I believe you should be royal advisor to sire Grizzly.

The game inspired from Dark Souls then developed to Chronos:Before the Ashes, an actual Souls-like.
Then from Chronos developed to Remnant 1, then from Remnant 1 to Remnant 2.

Basically comparing between a bird and a chicken.

[Winston]

Originally posted by Velmoria:

Originally posted by Winston:

Wow, so something becomes different if you change it? You have a remarkable eye for detail and nuance! I believe you should be royal advisor to sire Grizzly.

The game inspired from Dark Souls then developed to Chronos:Before the Ashes, an actual Souls-like.
Then from Chronos developed to Remnant 1, then from Remnant 1 to Remnant 2.

Basically comparing between a bird and a chicken.

https://www.deviantart.com/sharpsider/art/Digimon-Adventure-Evolution-Chart-852393250

[Auri Crystal]

What a waste of time reading all this. Got anything positive to say or did you only come here to 💩 on a great game?