Progression question - how do you actually get stronger?

[noka]

I'll start with the questions to make it easier, people can just ignore my whining bellow :)

1) Does it make sense to level up all Archetypes?
2) If yes, how does this account for DLCs?
3) After upgrading weapons to max and gathering all items the only thing that can "buff" you towards Apocalypse are the fragments, right?
4) Corrupted weapons - do they actually matter?
5) I've seen random players which pretty much one shot bosses or never die, how do you become that? (I know the question is stupid :)) )

Now more details:
I've just completed my second campaign roll. Played as Handler and Medic so I got it easy first time. Got 4 Archetypes at level 10, currently leveling up two others. I'm doing it pretty brain dead, just picked two 0s, now it's Engineer and Explorer :) I've upgraded weapons close to their max (using Alpha&Omega and Enigma). My power level is 18. I can probably push the weapons to their max upgrade but I am not sure these are the weapons I should be using my last level upgrade mats on.
I've tried my hand in the Veteran difficulty and got kinda killed a lot. I can't really imagine how can I get closer to Apocalypse as I don't feel the character getting stronger what so ever. I've tried playing with mostly defensive items and Leto II but it feels I have very low DPS so things are not really fun that way, not to mention how the roll is with that armor.

As far as I can imagine the problem is that I'm leveling some crap archetype just for the sake of leveling it. But I need them leveled up if I want the best quality fragments, right?
It seems to me the power up comes from specific builds with synergies. I haven't tried any online builds yet. My plan was to unlock/level up all Archetypes and then focus on builds. I've mixed and matched some items to buff the weapons mostly, and have a separate "defensive" build for when a specific boss is looking more like a nightmare then a boss.

To sum it up: I guess I don't really understand what the "endgame" progression is.

How do I actually increase my character power so I can approach higher difficulties?

[Woudo]

More archetype levels means better quality fragments, so yes you want all archetypes to be maxed.

Some corrupted weapons are good, some aren't. If you want to catch em all, that's up to you.

Some builds can do big bursts of damage, but none are capable of entirely one-hitting a boss. There are some builds currently that are basically impervious to damage.
The multiplayer has a bit of a hacker problem though, so that's more likely.

Having low-level archetypes and a non-existent build are definitely whats causing you problems. For a long time I couldn't be bothered updating my ramshackle crit 'build', but I eventually got tired of being downed or having to run basic elites around in circles while I chipped them, so I just took a knee for 10 minutes, looked up a current meta build, and now Apocalypse looks no different to speedrunning through on veteran.

[sk1xs]

1. Ye, it does make sense to lvl up archetypes. LV10 unlocks the trait, so you can use it even when you don't have that archetype equipped. Archetypes also gain abilities and higher % for certain stats.
But it's also not really neccesasry if you don't plan on using a archetype or don't need their trait.
It's fun messing around with different archetypes tho.
(2 specific archetypes on lv10 are needed to unlock some secrets iirc)

2. dunno what you mean, but dlc archetypes are p strong and fun.

3. Fragments, amulets, rings, mutators, mods and traits can buff your damage like crazy.
Obviously also some weapons are strong in general and just get A TON better with certain setups.

4. Some corrupted weapons are just good (e.g. corrupted rune pistol. mod gives a 10% debuff on enemies) others are just fun and others again are just trash.

5. If you actually mean 1 shotting bosses, then it's probably cheats. But you can melt bosses on apoc, you just need a good built. And when it comes to not dying, it's just a matter of getting good.

and lastly you can also do fresh apoc. it's def more difficult than doing it with a fully geared character but I also think it's a lot more fun.

EDIT: oh yea and what the guy above me said about fragments.. can't remember the exact number but I think it was 6 or 8 archetypes at max level are required to get mythic fragments

[Skizzzzz]

1 shoting bosses= bolt jamison builds on yt
but i suggest u play whatever u like
enjoying the game is the most important part of any build

[Evil-Striker]

As you progress in the game, you will unlock more options for your character. These in turn, allow you to create builds that range from being a damage dealing monster, to an absolute unit of a tank, or anything in between. The more options you have, the further you can push your character in any given direction.

You can even make your character weaker in some ways, in order to make it stronger in others. The trick when crafting your build then, is finding ways to either compensate for that weakness or to lean in on that strength.

Examples of these would be using any of the "Burden" rings, or rings like Restriction Cord and Atonement Fold. On their own, the benefits they provide are dubious at best when compared to the drawbacks; but when you combine them with other elements that either negate their drawbacks or double-down on their strengths, they can become quite powerful.

I think you can apply a similar mindset to all aspects of crafting your build. On that note, there are really no such thing as "crap archetypes", its just that different archetypes require different builds and playing styles in order to be effective. Only the Medic and Alchemist damage perks provide a flat increase (25% at level 10) to all your damage; all the other archetype's damage perks are conditional.

For example, the Hunter can boost your damage by up to 40%, but it only applies to firearms, so a build that focuses on dealing damage with mods, skills, status effects or melee weapons, is less than ideal for this archetype.

Likewise, the Ritualist's damage boost only works against enemies suffering from a status effect, so having a build that doesn't use any is kind of pointless. The Explorer's damage perk works by picking up ammo, scrap and other items, so using the Zero Divide amulet, which gives you infinite ammo reserves, can actually be a hindrance. The Invader's damage boost works by constantly being on he move, so equipping the Inert Overcharger amulet, which provides its benefits while standing still, can be counter-productive.

If there is a point I want to make with all this, its that you don't get "naturally stronger" as you progress. As you continue playing, you will unlock more options to explore, but that freedom also means that you can end up hampering yourself with a build that runs counter to your archetype's strengths, or by playing those archetypes in a way that ignores their perks.

These details matter, so making a build is not something you should leave off until you have leveled all archetypes, especially on Veteran or higher difficulties. Just make do with what you have, and then you can further refine it as time goes on.

[Xaelon]

The game is made in such a way that the level of new areas will always keep pace with whatever your power level is. You cannot really grind to win in this game.

On the other hand, it also means areas will never be too high level either. No need to worry about visiting areas in the 'right' order because they will always be near your level.

If you would like the level of areas to stay low then don't upgrade your equipment. It's counter-intuitive I know, but upgrading equipment (actually equipped or not) will boost your power level.

In general how strong you are is based on your build. Finding new equipment or classes in this game won't really make you stronger unless it improves your build or you adjust your build to take advantage of it.

The strongest build is the one that best suits your playstyle.

[Yal]

I've tried playing with mostly defensive items and Leto II but it feels I have very low DPS so things are not really fun that way, not to mention how the roll is with that armor.

I messed around a bit with minmaxing armor the other day (for Apocalypse boss fights) and realized the difference between full Leto II and something that let me medium roll was like 10% damage reduction, it feels completely pointless going for that armor set...
(though there's a burden ring that boosts your attack proportionally to your damage reduction, a ring that grants you shield when you spend stamina, and probably some others that could synergize with it if you wanna go full defense)

Generally it feels like the only difference in higher difficulties is that enemies have more health and deal more damage, so defense is less important than not being hit (and relatedly weapons which stun enemies on hit are preferable, since you want to avoid having them attack to begin with if you can)

For my build I'm focusing 100% on stacking ailments, since indirect damage means being able to focus entirely on dodging. But it's not the FASTEST method by any means.