How to cook Deathwish?

[Tao314zdin]

Tried to make some drain build with Nightmare Spiral and Deathwish, but the latter seem to be a meme working just as the name suggests:
-Kind of fine if enemy is right there and does not do anything crazy
-However the skill just kills the player character if enemy:
--dies
--hides
--becomes immune to damage
--uses zoning attack that require running away
--uses combo that is few seconds long

So it's like a niche skill that is meant to be used only when enemy sure to not do anything from the above, or do I miss something?

[Vexillarius]

I love this game but it's abilities are certainly it's weak point. Some are so weak just there cast time makes them not worth using others have negatives so severe they are not viable. But most of them are so boring you forget they are even there. But as you said it's just a super niche skill that's never really ever viable.

[Malidictus]

For a moment there, I thought I was back in the Payday 2 forums...

[Rod, of eight toes]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Tried to make some drain build with Nightmare Spiral and Deathwish, but the latter seem to be a meme working just as the name suggests:
-Kind of fine if enemy is right there and does not do anything crazy
-However the skill just kills the player character if enemy:
--dies
--hides
--becomes immune to damage
--uses zoning attack that require running away
--uses combo that is few seconds long

So it's like a niche skill that is meant to be used only when enemy sure to not do anything from the above, or do I miss something?

I've had these same questions about Deathwish. 300% health is A LOT to mitigate. I haven't tested it yet, but I'm wondering if this skill is meant to be used with grey health and/or HoT builds.

[Lunaire]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

For a moment there, I thought I was back in the Payday 2 forums...

Cooking on deathwish? Sneak or loud?

[Skeleton]

Originally posted by Rod, of eight toes:

I've had these same questions about Deathwish. 300% health is A LOT to mitigate. I haven't tested it yet, but I'm wondering if this skill is meant to be used with grey health and/or HoT builds.

Lifesteal.

Regeneration and Grey Health Regeneration are considered forms of healing, which is why they're affected by Triage. Lifesteal isn't. So when Deathwish states that it stops all healing that includes all forms of regeneration.

Oh, and lifesteal doesn't seem to apply to skill or mod damage - so if you were hoping to set up a turret or cast Firestorm and heal from that, it's not going to work. I haven't tried Soul Link though.

Nightmare Spiral, Amulet of Life, Siphoner, Nightfall - those will be your best options to survive.

So it's like a niche skill that is meant to be used only when enemy sure to not do anything from the above, or do I miss something?

Yes.

If the boss in question is about to die, has invulnerability phases, or keeps landing hits on you - then maybe don't use Deathwish in that scenario.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

For a moment there, I thought I was back in the Payday 2 forums...

SAME LMAO

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Skeleton:

this guy explained it nice, basically the name is actually program with that skill,

high risk high reward

[Rod, of eight toes]

Skeleton, do you know if the skill stops grey health from appearing altogether? There are items that convert damage taken to grey health and boost damage based on grey health.

[Rain]

Or use any kind of shield to negate the drain or regeneration to offset it. The skill is good, you're just using it wrong.

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by Rain:

Or use any kind of shield to negate the drain or regeneration to offset it. The skill is good, you're just using it wrong.

Did you actually try it? Or at least read the description?

Shields do not affect it, it is direct health drain. And description says in its firsts sentence: "Negates all healing to self".

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by Skeleton:

If the boss in question is about to die, has invulnerability phases, or keeps landing hits on you - then maybe don't use Deathwish in that scenario.

Well that actually leaves very few bosses it could even be used on.

You also forgot to mention situations when boss uses zoning skills or combos that force player to stop attacking for a while like Ravenger howl, Annihilation repeating smashing the ground, Venom phase 2 pillars etc.

Things like this also will make the skill kill the user.

So on top of my head I can see it could be used on: Gwendil (pyromaniac), Dullan (corpse thrower), Huntress (in the final confrontation when she does not run away), the Altar, Tal Ratha (Nerud frog), Primogenetor.

That's like 6 out of 29, not much.

Edit: mb aslo the Bloat King (big blob), but it hides often, so going down to shoot the adds every time it hides might not kill the user, but definitely make skill have overall negative effect on the fight. Unless healing triggers of the orbs, in which case 7 out of 29.

[Skeleton]

Originally posted by Rod, of eight toes:

Skeleton, do you know if the skill stops grey health from appearing altogether? There are items that convert damage taken to grey health and boost damage based on grey health.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3115163916
Just tested it quickly and the health drain creates small bits of grey health, rather than one large bar. I think what's happening is that the first tick of "damage" creates a bit of grey health, the second tick clears it, and the next creates a new piece of GHP.

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Well that actually leaves very few bosses it could even be used on.

Perhaps. I actually used it against Nightmare Annihilation two nights ago, since it's very easy to hit between attacks and spends large portions of time just doing nothing.

Timing it, it takes me about 5 seconds to go from full health to dead. Under those limitations, I don't know of as many bosses who you can't deal any damage to for that long. You can easily get some shots in between Annihilation's sword plunges, for instance.

The problematic bosses would more be ones like final phase Faelin/Faerin, dark mode Sha'Hala, Sunken Witch since those pigs likely provide terrible sustain while she's running around in the rafters, Venom during his "don't stand in the red" attack - but all of these have something in common. They're usually tied to a specific phase/health threshold. Which makes them relatively predictable.

Deathwish is intended to reward highly aggressive tactics, slipping attacks in as frequently as possible. If you've got a more defensive or cautious approach, Deathwish will kill you.

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by Skeleton:

Originally posted by Rod, of eight toes:

Skeleton, do you know if the skill stops grey health from appearing altogether? There are items that convert damage taken to grey health and boost damage based on grey health.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3115163916
Just tested it quickly and the health drain creates small bits of grey health, rather than one large bar. I think what's happening is that the first tick of "damage" creates a bit of grey health, the second tick clears it, and the next creates a new piece of GHP.

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Well that actually leaves very few bosses it could even be used on.

Perhaps. I actually used it against Nightmare Annihilation two nights ago, since it's very easy to hit between attacks and spends large portions of time just doing nothing.

Timing it, it takes me about 5 seconds to go from full health to dead. Under those limitations, I don't know of as many bosses who you can't deal any damage to for that long. You can easily get some shots in between Annihilation's sword plunges, for instance.

The problematic bosses would more be ones like final phase Faelin/Faerin, dark mode Sha'Hala, Sunken Witch since those pigs likely provide terrible sustain while she's running around in the rafters, Venom during his "don't stand in the red" attack - but all of these have something in common. They're usually tied to a specific phase/health threshold. Which makes them relatively predictable.

Interesting, I know that you can sneak in a hit in between annihilation attacks, but I imagined it would not be enough to sustain the drain. I also recall it can randomly do 3rd smash that has difficult-to-dodge homing grab (because you don't see it and it is homing really well) which is a certain death if the skill is up (I think).

On the other hand it might depend on setup, my was made for corrupted merciless and I have big doubts that 1 (2?) shot I can land between hits would outdo the drain. But mb.

In any case I found that using Alchemist with its second skill is way more efficient for my build than Ritualist with Deathwish anyhow - both does more damage and is usable at any time.

[gregthegrim]

With kinship to mitigate most of the self inflicted damage.

[Tao314zdin]

Originally posted by gregthegrim:

With kinship to mitigate most of the self inflicted damage.

That was fixed a while ago. No?