World Level vs Player Level

[Sparky862]

In before the dude comes in here telling me I shouldn't ask simple questions on these Forums .....

Olay, so I understand that the game takes both your highest Architype aswell as your highest weapons into mind when generating a new world. But this is what confuses me. It seems counterintuitive.

Let's say I have x2 Max Classes and x3 +5 Weapons. I play, level my x3 weapons to +10, I end up melting the World.

I completed my World and want to re roll, so I do. In the next world I put away my current level gear and decided to buy 3 new weapons .... But the World generated is based of my highest gear, and I now have Weapons dealing minuscule damage vs Enemies and that alone already won't make you like the Weapon and test it out to see if you like it.

My question is what's the point in scaling with your highest gear? You're now always forced to spend resources to level every other single gun you get to experiment and test it out to see if you'll like it ....

[Cold_Killer]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

My question is what's the point in scaling with your highest gear? You're now always forced to spend recourses to level every other single gun you get to experiment and test it out to see if you'll like it ....

That's one of the most common criticisms of the progression of this game. You have to be very conservative with your upgrades, otherwise you face this problem you're having. You can downlevel your gear so your character level decreases, and then upgrade another gear as far as you want. My suggestion: keep your gear level as low as the generated worlds allow (they have a minimum level). Only start upgrading high (14+) when you have a very good amount of scrap and materials.

[Xaelon]

This aspect of the game has been discussed a lot. You're either OK with it or you hate it unfortunately. You can at least play around it once you're aware of how it works.

The main "trick" you need to be aware of is that the level of an area is set based on your power level the first time you enter it. The level for that area is then locked and will not change unless the world is rerolled.

Lets say you enter a zone with a boss in it and the game sets the level of that zone to 5. That boss is now level 5 until you reroll the world in some fashion. Meaning if you're having trouble with the boss you could return to town and upgrade some guns to give yourself a damage boost. Though doing that may also make later areas higher level depending on whatever their minimum level is.

It's also worth noting that your campaign and adventures are completely separate. If you wanted to you could push through to the final boss of the campaign, return to town, do a bunch of adventures to level yourself up a bunch and then go kick the crap out of the final boss who's now much lower level than you.

It really depends on how much you want to game the system.

So no, there's really no point in upgrading your stuff ASAP unless you would like the game to remain difficult.

[Skeleton]

You can downgrade your weapons to refund the resources invested in them. This lowers your level, and if you want to try new weapons you can upgrade them instead.

Generally speaking, you don't want to powerlevel to the point that you're 7 levels above the map.

The way to deal with it is that you enter a map. Check the level. Attempt the map. If necessary, level your gear until you match the map's level, or at most exceed it by 1-2.

[Vexillarius]

Maps have levels? I never even noticed lol. The scaling is so extremely negligible in this game it's not worth thinking about unless your playing hardcore or something maybe then it might matter. But honestly the difficulty setting is the real scaling in this game. When you level up a gun and push your power level up one level the enemies are gonna get like 3 hp. Your worrying over nothing.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

My question is what's the point in scaling with your highest gear?

balance, you could otherwise just pick 3 not leveled up weapons every time a new area gets generated and cheat the system that way.

you dont really need to upgrade weapons just to test if youd like them or not, unless a weapon would be out of balance the dmg you miss out on at low level should be fine once upgraded. all you gotta test is the gun handling


also

Originally posted by Sparky862:

In before the dude comes in here telling me I shouldn't ask simple questions on these Forums .....

really not needed comment. do you want to pick a fight or why did you do that?

[Sparky862]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

In before the dude comes in here telling me I shouldn't ask simple questions on these Forums .....

really not needed comment. do you want to pick a fight or why did you do that? [/quote]

Because at this point I kind of just expect it to happen because of the self doubt I now have for asking questions I really wanted to know from the Community and not Google

[Sparky862]

Originally posted by Grizzly:

Originally posted by Sparky862:

My question is what's the point in scaling with your highest gear?

balance, you could otherwise just pick 3 not leveled up weapons every time a new area gets generated and cheat the system that way.

you dont really need to upgrade weapons just to test if youd like them or not, unless a weapon would be out of balance the dmg you miss out on at low level should be fine once upgraded. all you gotta test is the gun handling


also

Originally posted by Sparky862:

In before the dude comes in here telling me I shouldn't ask simple questions on these Forums .....

really not needed comment. do you want to pick a fight or why did you do that?

My question was actually what's the point in upgrading your gear if you re roll and want new weapons to try, which will make you not like the new weapons because they'll do no damage. Now you're scared upgrading them to bring them up to Tier so they can atleast do Damage, but now you don't like the Damage Output but your Handling feels fine.

But others already answered the question by saying downgrade the weapons, and keep them in par with world tier and don't level them too high

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Sparky862:

My question was actually what's the point in upgrading your gear if you re roll and want new weapons to try, which will make you not like the new weapons because they'll do no damage. Now you're scared upgrading them to bring them up to Tier so they can atleast do Damage, but now you don't like the Damage Output but your Handling feels fine.

i mean i just do the math to see if the dmg will fit, as you can see what dmg a weapon will do at what level and whats the fire rate. that together with handling testing and im fine usually

[Razumen]

Originally posted by Grizzly:

you dont really need to upgrade weapons just to test if youd like them or not, unless a weapon would be out of balance the dmg you miss out on at low level should be fine once upgraded. all you gotta test is the gun handling

The problem is people don't want to have to wait to upgrade a weapon for it to be useful. Often you'll get a new weapon you want to use, but just can't because it's damage is crap.

Same goes for archetypes. Want to try out that new archetype? Well you're gonna have a bad time because the world level is going to be much higher still.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Razumen:

Originally posted by Grizzly:

you dont really need to upgrade weapons just to test if youd like them or not, unless a weapon would be out of balance the dmg you miss out on at low level should be fine once upgraded. all you gotta test is the gun handling

The problem is people don't want to have to wait to upgrade a weapon for it to be useful. Often you'll get a new weapon you want to use, but just can't because it's damage is crap.

well then you gotta upgrade after testing it out and doing the math, its like that in every single souls like that ive played till date. just that most dont even allow you to downgrade a weapon once its upgraded.

Originally posted by Razumen:

Same goes for archetypes. Want to try out that new archetype? Well you're gonna have a bad time because the world level is going to be much higher still.

thats not really true. the game is balanced around having only one archtype at level 10 and max level weapons for the late game, meaning as long as you dont switch out both archtypes you will be fine. having two high level ones is actually the thing that gives you an advantage

im leveling my archtypes on my hardcore apoc run right now and its not really painfull

[Razumen]

Originally posted by Grizzly:

well then you gotta upgrade after testing it out

Lol, good luck upgrading it with no resources to do so.

Originally posted by Grizzly:

thats not really true. the game is balanced around having only one archtype at level 10 and max level weapons for the late game, meaning as long as you dont switch out both archtypes you will be fine.

Which makes exactly what I said true. You can't test out new archetypes without getting screwed up the arse, especially if you want to try new combinations out.

It's just not a good leveling system, and honestly, if the game just gets harder in response, then really they should've just left out upgrading altogether, all it does is add grind. You can't upgrade armor and that's not an issue.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Razumen:

Originally posted by Grizzly:

well then you gotta upgrade after testing it out

Lol, good luck upgrading it with no resources to do so.

ive got like 15 weapons at 19 or higher on my main character, so idk what you mean

Originally posted by Razumen:

Originally posted by Grizzly:

thats not really true. the game is balanced around having only one archtype at level 10 and max level weapons for the late game, meaning as long as you dont switch out both archtypes you will be fine.

Which makes exactly what I said true. You can't test out new archetypes without getting screwed up the arse, especially if you want to try new combinations out.

It's just not a good leveling system, and honestly, if the game just gets harder in response, then really they should've just left out upgrading altogether, all it does is add grind. You can't upgrade armor and that's not an issue.

yeah you def dont know what a souls like is

anyways they should just rebalance to having two archtypes then. so you are actually right and you would then be screwed.

[Razumen]

Originally posted by Grizzly:

Originally posted by Razumen:

Lol, good luck upgrading it with no resources to do so.

ive got like 15 weapons at 19 or higher on my main character, so idk what you mean

Not everyone has time to grind for hundreds of hours for that, again, proving my point.

Originally posted by Razumen:

Which makes exactly what I said true. You can't test out new archetypes without getting screwed up the arse, especially if you want to try new combinations out.

It's just not a good leveling system, and honestly, if the game just gets harder in response, then really they should've just left out upgrading altogether, all it does is add grind. You can't upgrade armor and that's not an issue.

yeah you def dont know what a souls like is

anyways they should just rebalance to having two archtypes then. so you are actually right and you would then be screwed.

And you don't know what good game design is lol

Soulslike isn't really a genre, hate to break it to you. They're just action RPGs, and hard but fair ones existed before them.

But regardless of whatever you want to call it, nothing forces this game to use a bad levelling system that punishes the player for upgrading up their gear. Difficulty selection is the job of the...wait for it...the difficulty selection you select at the start of the game. Crazy concept, I know.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by Razumen:

Soulslike isn't really a genre, hate to break it to you. They're just action RPGs, and hard but fair ones existed before them.

alright you are just a troll, thats clear now.

you can simply go to wikipedia and ask it what souls like is... and its gonna tell you its a genre

[Zehm]

It's quite simple. You start at level 0 and the first area is level 1. That means you can upgrade to +1 without upsetting the world scaling. When you reach the next dungeon it'll be level 2, so you can upgrade to +2. If you are having trouble with a boss, you can upgrade past the recommended level for an easier time, but once your done, the next area will be (your level) +1, so it's business as usual. If you want to switch weapons, you have to pay to level them to the current scaling which can be prohibitively expensive.

I can see the logic behind it, but I'm not a fan. It just feels like an upgrade tax to me.