Is there a way to turn off Archtype leveling? Like an Exp off option?

[Gorem]

Hey in Remnant 1 we could keep the same scaling by just not levelling our armour or weapons, meant I could play solo some and farm for gear and talents while I waited for my next play session with others.

However in this as scaling cannot be stopped as you keep gaining exp and levels, forcing your power level up, is there a way to turn off gaining exp so I can play like I did in Remnant 1 so nothing scales up too badly?

It was honestly quite a nice feature in 1 that you can choose when to pointlessly scale enemies up and make them harder for no reason as upgrading only makes your character worse but at least it was a choice when you wanted to increase the games difficulty by levelling up.

[Sigs]

Very little thought was put into the scaling by the team. The best you can do is only level 1 archetype, and rotate it out. The game pulls the highest 2 archetype levels for its shenanigans. Weapons take priority if they're higher than the archetypes.

Don't level up your weapons too high and don't overlevel the archetype you have equipped I guess?

[Sigs]

Hm. People weren't flooded by attacks by rabid lunatics on Gamefaqs and were actually given a chance to do math. It looks like you can go ahead and bite the bullet on 2 archetypes (10/10), and then upgrade one weapon to 10, and the other 2 to 8.

That keeps the World level to ~13 now apparently. That seems much lower than I remember. Now that you can downgrade, you might be able to upgrade your stupid gacha relic fragments by hitting world level 18 on the highest difficulty, farming chests, then downgrading set the world level back to something reasonable and continuing the campaign.

The fragments are a complete waste of time without doing that anyways since you won't get anything over 1% unless you get WL 18 on apocalypse. They start giving 3%-5% of a bonus and have actually useful effects in the pool at that point iirc.

[Shinzawa]

To the best of my recollection, I recall reading or hearing that the developers purposefully altered the game to prevent players from intentionally keeping their power levels at a minimum, a strategy frequently employed by many speedrunners in the original Remnant. It seems that their intention was to increase the game's overall difficulty, a change that some may have initially considered arbitrary, as was the case with the first installment. This adjustment likely aligns with the developers' vision for the game.

[Gorem]

Interesting, so is level 10 the max level for a single archtype? Guess when I hit that I can just let it sit there and farm without worrying about messing up the game with the other people I play with. As long as we don't level our weapons.

Oh wait, if I keep one archetype and that hits 10? then I can swap it and change and level others and it won't increase the scaling?

[Sigs]

Your top two archetypes determine the archetype portion of the scaling. I was suggesting you rotate two out to keep them from maxing as long as possible, but I don't know if anyone would actually do that.

If you hit 10 in 2 archetypes, the scaling stops, so you can focus on getting your weapons in a comfortable spot.

[Krypto]

Okay, so the game's scaling. I'm not too keen on this stuff since most games I play, you level up, you get stronger and overlevel your enemies. It works like that in Elden Ring, Dark Souls. Lies of P.

In this game, you level up your class and weapons, the game scales with you? Is it more advantageous for you as the player to keep your weapon level low so as to keep scaling at a decent limit, that way everything doesn't become a bullet sponge?

Is it just me or is the way they did the scaling completely opposite how RPG style games are supposed to go? This reminds me of FF8, where you level up, the world scales with you.

[Evil-Striker]

Originally posted by Krypto (Jaded Grumpus):

Okay, so the game's scaling. I'm not too keen on this stuff since most games I play, you level up, you get stronger and overlevel your enemies. It works like that in Elden Ring, Dark Souls. Lies of P.

In this game, you level up your class and weapons, the game scales with you? Is it more advantageous for you as the player to keep your weapon level low so as to keep scaling at a decent limit, that way everything doesn't become a bullet sponge?

Is it just me or is the way they did the scaling completely opposite how RPG style games are supposed to go? This reminds me of FF8, where you level up, the world scales with you.

The scaling only comes into effect when you enter into new areas. Previously discovered zones will stay at the same level, so on a fresh campaign, by the time you reach the end zones, you will overpower the enemies in the initial areas by a fair amount.

Also, the scaling cuts both ways. While its true that you won't be able to enter a new area and already have a massive advantage over the enemies, it also means that they won't have a massive advantage over you either.

So if you want to run a play-through where you mostly avoid combat and as a result, gain very little experience, you won't get penalized for it because there's not a minimum level threshold you have to reach.

[Sigs]

Originally posted by Krypto (Jaded Grumpus):

Okay, so the game's scaling. I'm not too keen on this stuff since most games I play, you level up, you get stronger and overlevel your enemies. It works like that in Elden Ring, Dark Souls. Lies of P.

In this game, you level up your class and weapons, the game scales with you? Is it more advantageous for you as the player to keep your weapon level low so as to keep scaling at a decent limit, that way everything doesn't become a bullet sponge?

Is it just me or is the way they did the scaling completely opposite how RPG style games are supposed to go? This reminds me of FF8, where you level up, the world scales with you.

It's a throttling system. When you level up in this game, the enemies get more health and hit harder (to a degree that is not balanced, and they outscale you). So it's better to not level up, since leveling up makes you weaker. Yes, it is completely counterintuitive, poorly thought out, and poorly executed.

It throttles the player back and limits them, providing nothing else.

[Krypto]

Originally posted by Sigs:

Originally posted by Krypto (Jaded Grumpus):

Okay, so the game's scaling. I'm not too keen on this stuff since most games I play, you level up, you get stronger and overlevel your enemies. It works like that in Elden Ring, Dark Souls. Lies of P.

In this game, you level up your class and weapons, the game scales with you? Is it more advantageous for you as the player to keep your weapon level low so as to keep scaling at a decent limit, that way everything doesn't become a bullet sponge?

Is it just me or is the way they did the scaling completely opposite how RPG style games are supposed to go? This reminds me of FF8, where you level up, the world scales with you.

It's a throttling system. When you level up in this game, the enemies get more health and hit harder (to a degree that is not balanced, and they outscale you). So it's better to not level up, since leveling up makes you weaker. Yes, it is completely counterintuitive, poorly thought out, and poorly executed.

It throttles the player back and limits them, providing nothing else.

That is so weird. In LIes of P, I see upgrade materials and I'm like "make bonking weapon more bonkier to bonk things harder" but in this I have to refrain from upgrading lest the game becomes unbalanced.

So weird.

[Tao314zdin]

Devs just made a miscalculation of making final area minimal level 15 instead of 21.

They tried to smoothen up enemy scaling to adopt to player progression, but instead introduced confusion when grading above certain level (should be 15) is not strictly beneficial.

IMO they should just force campaign scaling to 21 and any adventure started after reaching final biom also would be 21 fixed. That would resolve all the confusion.

[Atma]

Originally posted by Sigs:

Hm. People weren't flooded by attacks by rabid lunatics on Gamefaqs and were actually given a chance to do math. It looks like you can go ahead and bite the bullet on 2 archetypes (10/10), and then upgrade one weapon to 10, and the other 2 to 8.

That keeps the World level to ~13 now apparently. That seems much lower than I remember. Now that you can downgrade, you might be able to upgrade your stupid gacha relic fragments by hitting world level 18 on the highest difficulty, farming chests, then downgrading set the world level back to something reasonable and continuing the campaign.

The fragments are a complete waste of time without doing that anyways since you won't get anything over 1% unless you get WL 18 on apocalypse. They start giving 3%-5% of a bonus and have actually useful effects in the pool at that point iirc.

I'm not sure where you are getting this info, but it's just not correct.

Literally never leveled my character past 15 and have maxed out almost all Relic Fragments.

All of the frags are either 10% or 15% bonuses, depending on the fragment itself when maxed.

Also, there is a lot of napkin math that just says "scaling bad, enemy stronger" in this forums that is just absolutely laughable since it doesn't take into account any of the many other factors that contribute to player power that scaling isn't based on:

Rings
Amulet
Relic
Relic Fragments
Traits
Armor
Mods

And those things are where a very large chunk of a player's power comes from. If the game didn't scale as you got stronger in those regards, it would be absurdly easy.

Apocalypse is already pretty much a cakewalk with certain builds as-is, and I'm hardly some kind of super power gamer.

I'm literally a melee boy facetanking Apoc bosses w/out breaking a sweat and now that is even easier since I got the World's Edge.

[Peredur]

In Remnant II, after World 1, you can continue the game or start doing adventures.
After the Labyrinth, you have a choice between two worlds and you can :
- do one then the other
- do the two in parallel (a bit of one, a bit of the other, a bit of one, a bit of the other...)
- do one, go do adventures, then do the one
At any moment, you can join the game of someone else and come back with all the progression you got out of your game.
Moreover, some items are random and some are hidden.
So you can neither predict what power level the players will have when facing a part of the game nor what tools they will have.

In a more linear game, players have one path to follow and you somehow know at what power level they will be when facing a specific challenge. You can have a pre-established difficulty curve and it will do well.
In a more open game, you can't predict the power level of a player when encountering a challenge. But the player will do it's own difficulty curve: if something is too hard for him, he will leave, do something he can do, then come back when he is stronger.
(But some open world game still have some scaling: in Skyrim, level of enemies scale on your level ; in Breath of the Wild, they follow your progression and, when crossing threshholds, add new enemies to the world or replace enemies by stronger ones.)

Remnant II is peculiar because the base of the game is somehow linear but they made it possible to jump between various linear activities.
So the only way to have meaningful progression and while keeping the game relevant by preserving some difficulty is the scaling.


Scaling is based on your progression with archetypes and weapons.
You can't "cheat" by placing lower level archetypes and weapons before entering a world as it follow the highest leveled you have (two archetypes and one weapon of each category. It follows the core of your main build.

But scaling doesn't follow your full progression.
It doesn't follow the number of archetypes, weapons, mods, mutators, armors, amulets, rings, relics, relic fragments you have (things you can change in order to adapt your build to a situation).
It doesn't follow the number of relic charges you have.
It doesn't follow the number of trait points you have.
It doesn't follow the level of your mutators.
It doesn't follow the level of your relic fragments (to be noted: if you have enough levels over all your archetypes, you can only get mythic fragments, so getting full mythic is quite easy by then).
Also, it doesn't follow how much better you got with the game (like knowing what and when to evade, where to shoot for the weakpoint, etc).

The scaling is not accurate.
It guesses from a few factors how far in the game you are.
And sometimes you can be not as strong as the game expect you to be.
But you definitely end way stronger than you started.

[Gorem]

Originally posted by Tao314zdin:

Devs just made a miscalculation of making final area minimal level 15 instead of 21.

They tried to smoothen up enemy scaling to adopt to player progression, but instead introduced confusion when grading above certain level (should be 15) is not strictly beneficial.

IMO they should just force campaign scaling to 21 and any adventure started after reaching final biom also would be 21 fixed. That would resolve all the confusion.

Ya know, the simple solution to this is just to... balance the game correctly and remove scaling entirely.

Levelling up should always be encouraged and a way to improve yourself and make the game easier... not harder. There's a reason other games I mean even Kingdom Hearts 2 from so many years ago (decades?) has a remove exp option so you can try and beat the game on the hardest difficulty at level 1, The lowest level where you are your weakest. Because the game is balanced well and designed well.

All they needed to do would be to make the "Min zone level" just the level the zone is and make it progressively increase per map. So if you want to farm you can go to lower tier maps and farm and if you want to progress you can make it easier on yourself by levelling or make it harder by not. Its about player choice.

Plus then they could actually balance the damage enemies do, so we'd not need to rely on gimicks that give us max defence with the best dodge roll. That never would have been needed if they just balanced the game correctly and removed scaling.

[Gorem]

So far every argument I see here that is for scaling just seems to prove how much scaling should not be in this game or any game due to how badly designed it is and how unbalanced everything is. There's even a complaint above about getting stronger in one way that makes your character actually stronger and that's somehow a bad thing... haha oh dear.

Well it makes sense that this game launched with 100k players and in a month dropped to 2k.

[Little Strawberry]

Originally posted by Atma:

Also, there is a lot of napkin math that just says "scaling bad, enemy stronger" in this forums that is just absolutely laughable since it doesn't take into account any of the many other factors that contribute to player power that scaling isn't based on:

Rings
Amulet
Relic
Relic Fragments
Traits
Armor
Mods

... and since there is no power requirement, someone who didn't upgrade will deal more dps than you do with the exact same build. You really didn't think this through, did you.

Originally posted by Gorem:

So far every argument I see here that is for scaling just seems to prove how much scaling should not be in this game or any game due to how badly designed it is and how unbalanced everything is. There's even a complaint above about getting stronger in one way that makes your character actually stronger and that's somehow a bad thing... haha oh dear.

Well it makes sense that this game launched with 100k players and in a month dropped to 2k.

A lot of AAA games have level scaling because the developer doesn't really have to design or balance anything anymore, like Diablo 4 or Cyberpunk 2077 with 2.0. Yes, it shouldn't be in any game where you can upgrade anything, but in Remnant you at least have a sensible reason why they're doing it. Where as Diablo 4 and Cyberpunk have no excuses for it, it's just a crutch for massively lazy devs.