Trait Cap keeps killing the game.

[Pretoryan]

In case you were wondering why the player count is disappearing with every passing day - It's not Baldurs Gate, It's your worst design choice that you hid pre-launch so we would all buy the game.

Horrible Traits.

Capped Traits.

[Evilsod]

Yes, the term 'RPG' is thrown around a hell of a lot and sometimes it's pretty loose, but whether or not you believe the game can be classified as an RPG or not has nothing to do with the original question (nor this thread).

What does the trait cap have to do with this game being defined as an RPG or not? Progression is not a defining characteristic of an RPG.

[Flaak]

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

Evilsod eredeti hozzászólása:

Wow, you've truly hit the nail on the head. And there I was thinking it was the culmination of a lot of different aspects of the game.

But seriously, I can't tell if you are actually this dense or if you're trolling...

The game is listed as an RPG, folks like RPG's because of the Player Progression, which in Remnant 2, there is Zero player progression.

Hype scamming players is bad, as threads like these arise.

They level the monsters, to the level of your equipment and you.
You always deal a flat percentage of damage based on everything involving the "Progression" mechanics.

This is not an RPG game, Baldures gate is, They false advertised what this game was, as it ain't an RPG, as an RPG doesn't require Illusionary mechanics to hide the fact that you don't actually level, you don't actually progress.

This is an action adventure, as it ticks all the boxes, and none of them are invalidated on the back end hidden from the player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJz3sYiBevg

12 damage and 42 damage, which one is greater?

If you said 12, you are right as it takes less hits to kill the same enemy with 12 damage.

Wow well that kinda ruined the game for me. Is this only on nightmare?

[Mononymouse]

Flaak eredeti hozzászólása:

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

The game is listed as an RPG, folks like RPG's because of the Player Progression, which in Remnant 2, there is Zero player progression.

Hype scamming players is bad, as threads like these arise.

They level the monsters, to the level of your equipment and you.
You always deal a flat percentage of damage based on everything involving the "Progression" mechanics.

This is not an RPG game, Baldures gate is, They false advertised what this game was, as it ain't an RPG, as an RPG doesn't require Illusionary mechanics to hide the fact that you don't actually level, you don't actually progress.

This is an action adventure, as it ticks all the boxes, and none of them are invalidated on the back end hidden from the player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJz3sYiBevg

12 damage and 42 damage, which one is greater?

If you said 12, you are right as it takes less hits to kill the same enemy with 12 damage.

Wow well that kinda ruined the game for me. Is this only on nightmare?

Its in all game modes.

Nightmare just makes it more pronounced.
As they increase the percentage each enemy scales past you.

https://www.thegamer.com/remnant-2-which-difficulty-setting-to-choose/

Just realize, while the game is not an RPG, it is an Action Adventure, you can increase your stats via itemization, just not leveling mechanics.
The worst part is it nerfs armor dramatically.

Evilsod eredeti hozzászólása:

Yes, the term 'RPG' is thrown around a hell of a lot and sometimes it's pretty loose, but whether or not you believe the game can be classified as an RPG or not has nothing to do with the original question (nor this thread).

What does the trait cap have to do with this game being defined as an RPG or not? Progression is not a defining characteristic of an RPG.

Every aspect of a hype scam are tied together, The traits were a MAJOR part of the fun for many, as it gave them actual BUILDS, Actual player progression which are not in this game, as when something is limited, you don't have fun builds, you have specific meta's, such as Damage and HP, not something frivolous like Ladder climbing speed...

In remnant 1, you could hard focus a meta, or simply pick the fun traits, and eventually you could build however you wanted.
Why were their builds?

Because you didn't start with every trait, not enough trait points to level them all at the start of the game, it took MANY playthroughs to acquire them, as you got around 40 per run.

So we can stop having the nonsense "it didn't give builds" concept, as it very much did, for... roughly 21 clears of the game.

21 clears of the game... let that sink in, you expect that everyone played through the entire game, solo or together, 21 separate times.

Where as you can max every trait in this game, with 1-2.

So we can stop the dishonesty.

[Evilsod]

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

21 clears of the game... let that sink in, you expect that everyone played through the entire game, solo or together, 21 separate times.

Where as you can max every trait in this game, with 1-2.

So we can stop the dishonesty.

Until you can comprehend that content =/= grind, there really is no point continuing this with you.

Sure, I get wanting to progress towards something when you play the game. Instead of playing BG3 (because I'm procrastinating hard) I fired up SPAZ, a game I haven't touched in 12 years, because I decided to do an Insane playthrough for the last 3 achievements I need.
If you don't want to play the game for the sole purpose of playing the game, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not a fault of the game.

If the first game didn't have uncapped traits, this wouldn't even be a topic.

[Vrynn]

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

Every aspect of a hype scam are tied together, The traits were a MAJOR part of the fun for many, as it gave them actual BUILDS, Actual player progression which are not in this game, as when something is limited, you don't have fun builds, you have specific meta's, such as Damage and HP, not something frivolous like Ladder climbing speed...

In remnant 1, you could hard focus a meta, or simply pick the fun traits, and eventually you could build however you wanted.
Why were their builds?

Because you didn't start with every trait, not enough trait points to level them all at the start of the game, it took MANY playthroughs to acquire them, as you got around 40 per run.

So we can stop having the nonsense "it didn't give builds" concept, as it very much did, for... roughly 21 clears of the game.

21 clears of the game... let that sink in, you expect that everyone played through the entire game, solo or together, 21 separate times.

Where as you can max every trait in this game, with 1-2.

So we can stop the dishonesty.

can you tell me those build concept and after that figure out how many of those build does the same thing you got 32 trait to look at and it will only do big impact on exploring the world atleast single player wise

dont forget most of those build we probly speak of gona use the same trait as others
the way traits works now it feels like the game only want you to play as a tank
i am not trying to be bad faith but i fail to see the fun uniqe trait builds

but like you already know the real build is the equipment

[Mononymouse]

Vrynn eredeti hozzászólása:

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

Every aspect of a hype scam are tied together, The traits were a MAJOR part of the fun for many, as it gave them actual BUILDS, Actual player progression which are not in this game, as when something is limited, you don't have fun builds, you have specific meta's, such as Damage and HP, not something frivolous like Ladder climbing speed...

In remnant 1, you could hard focus a meta, or simply pick the fun traits, and eventually you could build however you wanted.
Why were their builds?

Because you didn't start with every trait, not enough trait points to level them all at the start of the game, it took MANY playthroughs to acquire them, as you got around 40 per run.

So we can stop having the nonsense "it didn't give builds" concept, as it very much did, for... roughly 21 clears of the game.

21 clears of the game... let that sink in, you expect that everyone played through the entire game, solo or together, 21 separate times.

Where as you can max every trait in this game, with 1-2.

So we can stop the dishonesty.

can you tell me those build concept and after that figure out how many of those build does the same thing you got 32 trait to look at and it will only do big impact on exploring the world atleast single player wise

dont forget most of those build we probly speak of gona use the same trait as others
the way traits works now it feels like the game only want you to play as a tank
i am not trying to be bad faith but i fail to see the fun uniqe trait builds

but like you already know the real build is the equipment

In Remnant: from the ashes, there was no punishement, for not building the meta, as you could build for FUN, right from the start, knowing later you would get the points to invest and improve your character.

There were close to 50, useful traits in Remnant 1.
There are only 6 useful traits, in remnant 2.

that is the removal, of 44 useful traits.

44 ways to customize your build, let alone the 2500+ ways to utilize them.

Remnant 2, has only 192 ways to use its traits.

Evilsod eredeti hozzászólása:

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

21 clears of the game... let that sink in, you expect that everyone played through the entire game, solo or together, 21 separate times.

Where as you can max every trait in this game, with 1-2.

So we can stop the dishonesty.

Until you can comprehend that content =/= grind, there really is no point continuing this with you.

Sure, I get wanting to progress towards something when you play the game. Instead of playing BG3 (because I'm procrastinating hard) I fired up SPAZ, a game I haven't touched in 12 years, because I decided to do an Insane playthrough for the last 3 achievements I need.
If you don't want to play the game for the sole purpose of playing the game, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not a fault of the game.

If the first game didn't have uncapped traits, this wouldn't even be a topic.

If the first game didn't have uncapped traits, no one would have bought the game, as the only thing hiding all of the anticonsumer hype scam illusionary systems was the trait system.

when you leveled up, you still became inferior in Remnant: from the ashes.
Bosses hit harder, guns did less damage, etc.

But Traits, overcame that issue, with Character progression.

This game lacks it, and so it is FAR easier to see under the hood, and notice that the game doesn't even have RPG mechanics.

Folks see the symptom, and think its the problem.

If the Problem, the fact that they had to Hide an illusion of Progression for that sweet sweet RPG tag on their game, so they could hype scam an entire Genre of players didn't exist, no one would care about capped traits, As there wouldn't be marketing fraud.

Now there are Gacha mechanics, that are too little, and far too late to cover it up.

Remnant devs are trying really hard to ride on the coattails of Anthem.

[Evilsod]

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

If the first game didn't have uncapped traits, no one would have bought the game, as the only thing hiding all of the anticonsumer hype scam illusionary systems was the trait system.

Seriously man, you might want to take a few days away from the steam forums/this game, because this level of hot take is pretty wild.

The fact you even think this is in the same league as Anthem says you completely abandoned rational thought.

Uncapped traits do not suddenly make this an RPG if you didn't think it was before.

I certainly had an easier time fighting bosses at PL20 than I did at PL4.
Because I had stronger weapons, and mods, and fully levelled archetypes, and rings/amulet that were actually coordinated. Some might even call it a build.
If you're struggling against stuff at PL20 that you cruised at PL4, the simple fact of the matter is, the problem is you. Your build sucks or you just never got better.

This is not Borderlands levels of enemies going from being 1 shots to taking 100 headshots with your strongest weapon. The scaling on those games was totally out of control.

[PortalShifter]

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

If the first game didn't have uncapped traits, no one would have bought the game, as the only thing hiding all of the anticonsumer hype scam illusionary systems was the trait system.

Now there are Gacha mechanics, that are too little, and far too late to cover it up.

What on earth are you talking about? This is so incredibly far off from a reasonable understanding of what this game is. Remnant 2 is about as far away from a "hype scam" as a game could possibly be. Just completely wrong on every level.

Please go play something like Lost Ark because you clearly need perspective on what things like Gacha mechanics actually are in a video game.

You're very confused.

[Vrynn]

Evilsod eredeti hozzászólása:

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

If the first game didn't have uncapped traits, no one would have bought the game, as the only thing hiding all of the anticonsumer hype scam illusionary systems was the trait system.

Seriously man, you might want to take a few days away from the steam forums/this game, because this level of hot take is pretty wild.

The fact you even think this is in the same league as Anthem says you completely abandoned rational thought.

Uncapped traits do not suddenly make this an RPG if you didn't think it was before.

I certainly had an easier time fighting bosses at PL20 than I did at PL4.
Because I had stronger weapons, and mods, and fully levelled archetypes, and rings/amulet that were actually coordinated. Some might even call it a build.
If you're struggling against stuff at PL20 that you cruised at PL4, the simple fact of the matter is, the problem is you. Your build sucks or you just never got better.

This is not Borderlands levels of enemies going from being 1 shots to taking 100 headshots with your strongest weapon. The scaling on those games was totally out of control.

have you ever consider people culd have beaten the game easy but hated the progression experience and get the emotion of this was not worth it and was boring its like when you remove level up from paper mario whats the point of fighting just rush to the boss...
thats what trait cap system is like now...

or is that news for you..... i seen many games remove what we call fun i think even blizzard is most known for it... like diablo 4 the game scale so much that your gearing progression feels worse need rng drop to be on your side...
i dont see reason to defend the trait cap it wuld almost be like saying the kingdom heart should force the lvl 1 run on all player no exp points...

[Evilsod]

Vrynn eredeti hozzászólása:

have you ever consider people culd have beaten the game easy but hated the progression experience and get the emotion of this was not worth it and was boring its like when you remove level up from paper mario whats the point of fighting just rush to the boss...
thats what trait cap system is like now...

or is that news for you..... i seen many games remove what we call fun i think even blizzard is most known for it... like diablo 4 the game scale so much that your gearing progression feels worse need rng drop to be on your side...
i dont see reason to defend the trait cap it wuld almost be like saying the kingdom heart should force the lvl 1 run on all player no exp points...

Then consider it this way:
By giving players a more obtainable 'max', the game can be balanced around it. Sure, some combinations of equipment will give you an easier time than others, and nothing will ever be perfect, but it works.
It's why Sekiro is the best FromSoft game imo. The game was balanced around a more limited moveset, but even then, the player still had options.

This isn't Path of Exile, where you start out the game going slow as hell and progress to clearing the entire screen at supersonic speed.
Nor is it Borderlands, where enemy hp and damage scaling goes off the charts and the game ultimately becomes boring because every Badass is a bullet sponge that instakills you the moment it gets close.
Judging by some of the whining here about 'negative' progression, you'd think that regular PL20 enemies require 3 Ammo Boxes to take down.

I sunk 15,000 hours into Guild Wars, where the max level is 20, and 99% of the game is spent at maximum level, with gear that never got any better, and absolutely zero 'progression'. It's still one of the best and most enjoyable games I've ever played, because I loved the core gameplay. Again, judging by some of the whining here, people don't actually enjoy the core gameplay of Remnant 2 that much.

[519B.]

1 day people will understand that player bases always dwindle after a launch.
It's not everyone else fault you can only afford to buy 1 game a year when I can think of at least 5 more I'm playing in the next couple months.

MASKEDNIGHTMARE eredeti hozzászólása:

Dootslayer eredeti hozzászólása:

Please don't spread misinformation.
It gives you 500 scrap and 500 xp if you class isn't maxed out

Then it should say that on screen instead of the trait nonsense.

maybe you shouldnt assume things then tell other people ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that isnt true. fkn lold. people like u are the reason there are always dumb ass rumors about things floating around

[Vrynn]

Evilsod eredeti hozzászólása:

Vrynn eredeti hozzászólása:

have you ever consider people culd have beaten the game easy but hated the progression experience and get the emotion of this was not worth it and was boring its like when you remove level up from paper mario whats the point of fighting just rush to the boss...
thats what trait cap system is like now...

or is that news for you..... i seen many games remove what we call fun i think even blizzard is most known for it... like diablo 4 the game scale so much that your gearing progression feels worse need rng drop to be on your side...
i dont see reason to defend the trait cap it wuld almost be like saying the kingdom heart should force the lvl 1 run on all player no exp points...

Then consider it this way:
By giving players a more obtainable 'max', the game can be balanced around it. Sure, some combinations of equipment will give you an easier time than others, and nothing will ever be perfect, but it works.
It's why Sekiro is the best FromSoft game imo. The game was balanced around a more limited moveset, but even then, the player still had options.

This isn't Path of Exile, where you start out the game going slow as hell and progress to clearing the entire screen at supersonic speed.
Nor is it Borderlands, where enemy hp and damage scaling goes off the charts and the game ultimately becomes boring because every Badass is a bullet sponge that instakills you the moment it gets close.
Judging by some of the whining here about 'negative' progression, you'd think that regular PL20 enemies require 3 Ammo Boxes to take down.

I sunk 15,000 hours into Guild Wars, where the max level is 20, and 99% of the game is spent at maximum level, with gear that never got any better, and absolutely zero 'progression'. It's still one of the best and most enjoyable games I've ever played, because I loved the core gameplay. Again, judging by some of the whining here, people don't actually enjoy the core gameplay of Remnant 2 that much.

i wuld say people enjoy chaos
diffculity is a fine thing but progression if well designed it but if the progression dont impact anything only the equipment do you start to look on why the is a cap in it like the trait cap removed wuld make walking around the game be more fun exploreing secrets etc since it does not change much in boss battle

sekiro was designed around it while remnant 2 change the design to focus the accesory and modifer instead of traits as the main focus wich makes the cap just look why is it here what is the point of the cap kinda none + most people searched up how to get archon but are most likley done by the game by the time you unlock a class after beating the game new game with these traits are not as fun...

[Mononymouse]

Vrynn eredeti hozzászólása:

Evilsod eredeti hozzászólása:

Seriously man, you might want to take a few days away from the steam forums/this game, because this level of hot take is pretty wild.

The fact you even think this is in the same league as Anthem says you completely abandoned rational thought.

Uncapped traits do not suddenly make this an RPG if you didn't think it was before.

I certainly had an easier time fighting bosses at PL20 than I did at PL4.
Because I had stronger weapons, and mods, and fully levelled archetypes, and rings/amulet that were actually coordinated. Some might even call it a build.
If you're struggling against stuff at PL20 that you cruised at PL4, the simple fact of the matter is, the problem is you. Your build sucks or you just never got better.

This is not Borderlands levels of enemies going from being 1 shots to taking 100 headshots with your strongest weapon. The scaling on those games was totally out of control.

have you ever consider people culd have beaten the game easy but hated the progression experience and get the emotion of this was not worth it and was boring its like when you remove level up from paper mario whats the point of fighting just rush to the boss...
thats what trait cap system is like now...

or is that news for you..... i seen many games remove what we call fun i think even blizzard is most known for it... like diablo 4 the game scale so much that your gearing progression feels worse need rng drop to be on your side...
i dont see reason to defend the trait cap it wuld almost be like saying the kingdom heart should force the lvl 1 run on all player no exp points...

I don't think he understand the technicals of what is being said.

There is an RPG system in the game, but its just an illusion, as it literally doesn't do anything, and leveling up actually HINDERS your progression.

As a level 1 weapon/enemy, takes the same number of hits as a level 21 weapon/enemy with the same gun.

Now, you Can absolutely use the ACTUAL mechanics, that are not invalidated to change the gameplay experience, but they seemingly refuse to understand that point.

Trait cap, would be the only ACTUAL character progression.

Equipment, such as rings and armor, are a part of the non invalidated Action Adventure mechanics.

When you are made aware of this, and aren't trying to hide your head in the sand, you can see why Trait cap actually is just a symptom to the greater problem.

The game has Zero RPG mechanics, as they are an illusion.

Level up your character or weapons, and you have less armor, and you do less damage.
Yes, in a SINGLE zone, you can do more, but there are hundreds of zones in the game.

Level past 14? and you are just making the game needlessly harder, as max boss is level 15.

There is absolutely a "sweet spot" level...
Where damage and armor loss aren't "terrible" but its still unacceptably bad, to false advertise the game as an RPG, to lure in a Genre the game isn't even meant for.

Player progress, isn't progress, if its invalidated.

https://www.gearboxpublishing.com/game/remnant-ii/

They themselves, claimed it was an RPG, they themselves conspired to invalidate and Hide the fact the game invalidated player character progression, which is a requirement for an RPG.
Experience and Levels, with meaningful gains and improvements to statistics.

That is a hype scam, that is false advertisement.

[Dootslayer]

Mononymouse eredeti hozzászólása:

Vrynn eredeti hozzászólása:

can you tell me those build concept and after that figure out how many of those build does the same thing you got 32 trait to look at and it will only do big impact on exploring the world atleast single player wise

dont forget most of those build we probly speak of gona use the same trait as others
the way traits works now it feels like the game only want you to play as a tank
i am not trying to be bad faith but i fail to see the fun uniqe trait builds

but like you already know the real build is the equipment

In Remnant: from the ashes, there was no punishement, for not building the meta, as you could build for FUN, right from the start, knowing later you would get the points to invest and improve your character.

There were close to 50, useful traits in Remnant 1.
There are only 6 useful traits, in remnant 2.

that is the removal, of 44 useful traits.

44 ways to customize your build, let alone the 2500+ ways to utilize them.

Remnant 2, has only 192 ways to use its traits.

Evilsod eredeti hozzászólása:

Until you can comprehend that content =/= grind, there really is no point continuing this with you.

Sure, I get wanting to progress towards something when you play the game. Instead of playing BG3 (because I'm procrastinating hard) I fired up SPAZ, a game I haven't touched in 12 years, because I decided to do an Insane playthrough for the last 3 achievements I need.
If you don't want to play the game for the sole purpose of playing the game, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not a fault of the game.

If the first game didn't have uncapped traits, this wouldn't even be a topic.

If the first game didn't have uncapped traits, no one would have bought the game, as the only thing hiding all of the anticonsumer hype scam illusionary systems was the trait system.

when you leveled up, you still became inferior in Remnant: from the ashes.
Bosses hit harder, guns did less damage, etc.

But Traits, overcame that issue, with Character progression.

This game lacks it, and so it is FAR easier to see under the hood, and notice that the game doesn't even have RPG mechanics.

Folks see the symptom, and think its the problem.

If the Problem, the fact that they had to Hide an illusion of Progression for that sweet sweet RPG tag on their game, so they could hype scam an entire Genre of players didn't exist, no one would care about capped traits, As there wouldn't be marketing fraud.

Now there are Gacha mechanics, that are too little, and far too late to cover it up.

Remnant devs are trying really hard to ride on the coattails of Anthem.

There are more useful traits than 6 and the “ useful “ ones moved into archetype traits

[Dootslayer]

I don’t understand you though mate.
You have been waging this “ war “ since release. Why not just let go ? Things are not changing at this point , sometimes it’s just better to let things go