Anyone else feel like theres less freedom in builds?

[Griffin]

If you played remnant 1 you'd recognize half the things in the game from it, including things like the dog companion which used to be a mod, now locked behind a class. Traits are taken away and put behind a class wall, so that you no longer have access to all of them, you have to pick and choose.

If you wanted to make a build with a low ammo count gun such as the sniper, you just had to upgrade ammo traits, now you're forced to use an archetype to get access to that trait and cannot change it, locking you out of other traits and old mods.

[Mister Lister the Sister Fister]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Naamtar:

Just sounds like you haven't played through much of the game.

[Griffin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Handbanana:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Griffin:

that was the freedom, the fact there were no rules, the fact that you could be any "class" you wanted to without having to literally lock yourself out of them. If you played part 1 then you remember the healing circle mod, the dog mod, the hunters mark mod, well now with the classes, you can only pick 2 out of the dozen, you're no missing out on about a dozen potential abilities that were otherwise able to be freely used.

i've already explained it, they're locked behind classes, i have 30 hours in the game, ive almost beaten it twice, the few things they do good at adding to variety IMO don't make up for the freedom that was taken away.

I don't feel like anything was taken away. The basic traits like dmg and reload speed were just that. Basic and boring. Everybody always took them. They could have rebalanced the game to not have them included which is what it looks like they did.

Now you get to choose your prime class with a powerful primary ability and a choice from 3 active abilities. There are also 4 built in traits that some what define the class but are not inherently mandatory or broken with the exception of maybe gunslingers. In addition to that you can pick a secondary class to get a second set of passives and abilities to use in combat. All of this basically didn't exist in the first game. There are at least 9 different classes you can combine together. I have heard rumor of there actually being 11. Can imagine more coming with DLC.

Then you have the stuff that you had in the first game like weapon mods. Except they went further and now you also have mutators which can be very powerful on top of a weapon and can combo with certain mods or weapons quite well.

Then you have your relic. Its not just a dragon heart anymore. There are multiple different types of relics that do things other than just heal. Then there are passive bonuses you can slot into the relic.

So no there isn't less freedom. What there is is an actual real choice now. You can make a real build using combinations of rings , jewelry, mods and mutators.

They weren't literally taken away, the freedom was, that is a fact by virtue of transitioning from no classes restricting previous abilities to classes, its not a debate.

The silver lining are the added bonuses from classes, I never argued against that, it doesn't retract from the fact that again, things are locked behind them that were previously readily available as long as you earned them.

I also mentioned something they did well was the mutators, they're actually viable and useful in many builds.

About half of the relics do the same thing, just different speeds in terms of how much HP is healed within a time frame or how much mod generation is given in exchange, its not exactly at the top of the list for variety.

I think you must have a very different definition of "freedom of choice" than me if you believe things being gated equates to freedom.

[Griffin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Haiboku:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Naamtar:

Just sounds like you haven't played through much of the game.

30 hrs, ive seen pretty much every known item through wikis, guides, streaming, and YT. I likely know more about the game than you.

[buttnut]

there's objectively more depth and it's not even close really.

[Griffin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Grimzy:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Griffin:

that was the freedom, the fact there were no rules, the fact that you could be any "class" you wanted to without having to literally lock yourself out of them. If you played part 1 then you remember the healing circle mod, the dog mod, the hunters mark mod, well now with the classes, you can only pick 2 out of the dozen, you're no missing out on about a dozen potential abilities that were otherwise able to be freely used.

i've already explained it, they're locked behind classes, i have 30 hours in the game, ive almost beaten it twice, the few things they do good at adding to variety IMO don't make up for the freedom that was taken away.

If anything Remnant 1 made all classes generic, with 0 variety and 0 build freedom because every class had everything which was beyond broken.

At least now you have to make choices as to what to use and things are far better organized.
Comparing Remnant 1 and 2, the second installment is by far much better than the first and has much more freedom in chocies and your choices actually make up for what you can do.

You cant just max out everything, have everything and be broken.

Thats the point, there weren't classes, thats what made it so free, you weren't restricted to a class to use an ability.

[Griffin]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από buttnut:

there's objectively more depth and it's not even close really.

In terms of what they added, not what they've taken away, which ive reiterated several times.

[Grimzy]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Griffin:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Grimzy:

If anything Remnant 1 made all classes generic, with 0 variety and 0 build freedom because every class had everything which was beyond broken.

At least now you have to make choices as to what to use and things are far better organized.
Comparing Remnant 1 and 2, the second installment is by far much better than the first and has much more freedom in chocies and your choices actually make up for what you can do.

You cant just max out everything, have everything and be broken.

Thats the point, there weren't classes, thats what made it so free, you weren't restricted to a class to use an ability.

You are not getting the point:

Remnant 1 there were no classes, every "class" had EVERYTHING.
Thats not freedom, thats making a class generic with no distinguished builds.
you need to look up what "freedom" really means.

Getting everything is not freedom. To be frank, you sound like a child.
"They dont let me get everything to be broken, its bad I want my character to be OP like in the first game".

[Commander Hitman2b]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Grimzy:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Griffin:

Thats the point, there weren't classes, thats what made it so free, you weren't restricted to a class to use an ability.

You are not getting the point:

Remnant 1 there were no classes, every "class" had EVERYTHING.
Thats not freedom, thats making a class generic with no distinguished builds.
you need to look up what "freedom" really means.

Getting everything is not freedom. To be frank, you sound like a child.
"They dont let me get everything to be broken, its bad I want my character to be OP like in the first game".

wrong in remnant 1 what made a build was the equipement your were putting on you not your starting archetype

[Grimzy]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Commander Hitman2b:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Grimzy:

You are not getting the point:

Remnant 1 there were no classes, every "class" had EVERYTHING.
Thats not freedom, thats making a class generic with no distinguished builds.
you need to look up what "freedom" really means.

Getting everything is not freedom. To be frank, you sound like a child.
"They dont let me get everything to be broken, its bad I want my character to be OP like in the first game".

wrong the remnant 1 what made a build was the equipement your were putting on you not your starting archetype

We arent talking about gear (armor / weapons)

[Maximus]

no the opposite.

[Proudly Toxic]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Grimzy:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Commander Hitman2b:

wrong the remnant 1 what made a build was the equipement your were putting on you not your starting archetype

We arent talking about gear (armor / weapons)

You are, because the paradigm changed from Remnant 1 to Remnant 2. Remnant 1 had gear be the core of your build, since everyone had the same traits. The predator set that made your last bullet deal stupid damage made crossbows and sniper rifles OP. Radiant armor made crit builds with the chicago typewriter op.

Remnant 2 is the one that has the focus be on traits, you can't compare both 1-to-1.

[Ninvus Oogoar]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Griffin:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Grimzy:

If anything Remnant 1 made all classes generic, with 0 variety and 0 build freedom because every class had everything which was beyond broken.

At least now you have to make choices as to what to use and things are far better organized.
Comparing Remnant 1 and 2, the second installment is by far much better than the first and has much more freedom in chocies and your choices actually make up for what you can do.

You cant just max out everything, have everything and be broken.

Thats the point, there weren't classes, thats what made it so free, you weren't restricted to a class to use an ability.

(((( by the way before people reply like idiots getting mad at what i said by trying to claim i have not played enough, i have 534.6 hours into remnant 2, i beat the game on apoc and apoc hardcore mode and unlocked everything in the game and maxed everything out and used every single weapon/class/mod the game has to offer.))))


eh you are going to get ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who dont understand what freedom of choice actually means. R1 had more build choices that were viable and not just insanely situational. 90% of the relic hearts you will NOT use... you will use the default one, the regen one, the leech one and the one medics abuse..... ANNNNND thats about it! lol. armor is only cosmetic if you suck at the game and play on easy mode... on apoc armor 100% matters and its why nearly everyone and their mother uses leto mk 1 and 2 so they can tank 2-4 hits without dying which is a MUST if you do not have exact perfect reaction time with dodging.

most of the mods in the game are utter ♥♥♥♥ except for firestorm and a few others, everything else is either done way better by another mod or is so utter ♥♥♥♥ that you will never use it or its weapon (if its a boss item) compared to the first game which had an INSANE amount of mods AND special weapons to choose from.

the illusion of "having to choose traits now" and having a half baked class system does not equate into builds... again morons with monkey brains playing wow or swtor will think R2's changes will grant more freedom because they are dumb and dumb people are easily manipulated with shiny graphics, emotions and illusions of choice.

R2 is a good game, but the first game is better for build diversity, "durrrr but mutators!" yeah? cool you will only use 10-20% of them because like with mods 80-90% of them are either utter ♥♥♥♥, or hyper situational which will force you to constantly edit loadouts and switch ♥♥♥♥ out from fight to fight because many things in this game hyper focus on various situations.... and anything that becomes too meta they enrf into the ground instead of making all the garbage guns/mods actually viable.

classes like the summoner is utter trash as your prime class because most of it is about sacrificing your minion(s) who have stupidly high cooldowns and killing them does NOTHING for you... summoner is purely used as an additional way to over cap damage reduction cap of 80% by using the trait that has summons absorb 10% of damage dealt. so some tanky builds will use one slow mod that reduces enemy damage by 10% + the summon thing above to become very tanky. you only ever use the flying summons because the rolly polly guys from the first game (that mod was actually good and they delt some good damage honestly) sucks ass in this game. damaging your summoner minions to give them a big buff is neat and all but its not enough to ever make summoner worth your prime spot.... its so bad that the devs in their discord have stated that they are thinking about completely revamping summoner because of stuff like i stated above. some of classes will get little to not use like explorer outside of trying to find hidden items (which are not that hidden in reality) and the only reason to use alchemist is to have 4 more concoctions to your limit and thats it! the skills for the class are good but the passives are trash.

it is an objective fact regardless of your emotional bias that R1 had more choices and build diversity through its gear system than R2. period. adding relics frags you will spend months grinding to try and max out (or go to nexus mods website and just use a save file with everything unlocked after you beat them game like many are doing lol) grinding corrupted versions of weapons or hidden alt weapons only to find out they are trash compared to the main 3-5 weapons used... i can keep going. adding garbage choices and a smaller pool of mods (yes way smaller than R1 because all the good ones were watered down and forced into classes that are half assed and half baked) where 90% of them are trash and out performed by literally everything else is not a good thing. yes the graphics are pretty in R2 but R1 had more meat on the bone

[Handbanana]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Ninvus Oogoar:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Griffin:

Thats the point, there weren't classes, thats what made it so free, you weren't restricted to a class to use an ability.

(((( by the way before people reply like idiots getting mad at what i said by trying to claim i have not played enough, i have 534.6 hours into remnant 2, i beat the game on apoc and apoc hardcore mode and unlocked everything in the game and maxed everything out and used every single weapon/class/mod the game has to offer.))))


eh you are going to get ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ who dont understand what freedom of choice actually means. R1 had more build choices that were viable and not just insanely situational. 90% of the relic hearts you will NOT use... you will use the default one, the regen one, the leech one and the one medics abuse..... ANNNNND thats about it! lol. armor is only cosmetic if you suck at the game and play on easy mode... on apoc armor 100% matters and its why nearly everyone and their mother uses leto mk 1 and 2 so they can tank 2-4 hits without dying which is a MUST if you do not have exact perfect reaction time with dodging.

most of the mods in the game are utter ♥♥♥♥ except for firestorm and a few others, everything else is either done way better by another mod or is so utter ♥♥♥♥ that you will never use it or its weapon (if its a boss item) compared to the first game which had an INSANE amount of mods AND special weapons to choose from.

the illusion of "having to choose traits now" and having a half baked class system does not equate into builds... again morons with monkey brains playing wow or swtor will think R2's changes will grant more freedom because they are dumb and dumb people are easily manipulated with shiny graphics, emotions and illusions of choice.

R2 is a good game, but the first game is better for build diversity, "durrrr but mutators!" yeah? cool you will only use 10-20% of them because like with mods 80-90% of them are either utter ♥♥♥♥, or hyper situational which will force you to constantly edit loadouts and switch ♥♥♥♥ out from fight to fight because many things in this game hyper focus on various situations.... and anything that becomes too meta they enrf into the ground instead of making all the garbage guns/mods actually viable.

classes like the summoner is utter trash as your prime class because most of it is about sacrificing your minion(s) who have stupidly high cooldowns and killing them does NOTHING for you... summoner is purely used as an additional way to over cap damage reduction cap of 80% by using the trait that has summons absorb 10% of damage dealt. so some tanky builds will use one slow mod that reduces enemy damage by 10% + the summon thing above to become very tanky. you only ever use the flying summons because the rolly polly guys from the first game (that mod was actually good and they delt some good damage honestly) sucks ass in this game. damaging your summoner minions to give them a big buff is neat and all but its not enough to ever make summoner worth your prime spot.... its so bad that the devs in their discord have stated that they are thinking about completely revamping summoner because of stuff like i stated above. some of classes will get little to not use like explorer outside of trying to find hidden items (which are not that hidden in reality) and the only reason to use alchemist is to have 4 more concoctions to your limit and thats it! the skills for the class are good but the passives are trash.

it is an objective fact regardless of your emotional bias that R1 had more choices and build diversity through its gear system than R2. period. adding relics frags you will spend months grinding to try and max out (or go to nexus mods website and just use a save file with everything unlocked after you beat them game like many are doing lol) grinding corrupted versions of weapons or hidden alt weapons only to find out they are trash compared to the main 3-5 weapons used... i can keep going. adding garbage choices and a smaller pool of mods (yes way smaller than R1 because all the good ones were watered down and forced into classes that are half assed and half baked) where 90% of them are trash and out performed by literally everything else is not a good thing. yes the graphics are pretty in R2 but R1 had more meat on the bone

You say you have 600 hjours in the game and beat apoc hardcore then you say some of the dumbest crap that has ever been said on this forum. honestly that is probably the only real achievement you have ever earned. Literally every single point you tried to make is wrong.

Instead of claiming you are john remnant maybe unprivate your profile and just show us instead.

[Rod, of eight toes]

Did this person just write a novel to necro?? 🤣

[Bruce]

This thread was quite old before the recent post, so we're locking it to prevent confusion.