Difficulty and bad game design: Veteran.

[Godzilla.exe]

I played R1, I beat R1, I am hating my veteran experience.
[Veteran Mode]
Veteran mode is just trash. It is. Mobs are no threat, bosses are HUGE hp sponges and there are a lot of difficulty spikes solely with bosses that tend to be overtuned for where the player is going to be at.

PERFECT EXAMPLE: Nighweaver.
This boss takes 10-15 minutes of just shooting to go down. Straight up "I'm holding the trigger, it's taking me 10+ minutes because the boss has SO much hp, the character does so little damage, and the boss is constantly dodging/attacking." And speaking of HP, the bosses HP more than doubles for 2/3 party and quadruples for 3/3 party. That's a LONG time to spend on one boss!

Is it particularly hard to fight? Not really. Is it extremely tedious to the point where when I die i'm more annoyed I have to waste 10 minutes because it's a two stage boss where the second phase is literally the boss running away in a corner to spawn mobs that are no threat but take enough time you can't get to the boss in time to do anything.

[Resetting]
This boss is 100% a waste of my time, but hey if I ever want to not feel like i'm grinding guess what? I have to RESET my entire campaign.

That's right, I have to reset my campaign and then it randomly selects another story segment to start off.


Just why. Why is that even the option.

[Fakewaterwalker]

i mean 'have to' is a bit disingenuous, you chose to reset your campaign, instead of just opening up an adventure mode to get a bit of materials and ♥♥♥♥ to upgrade your gear or find alternate weapons,accessories,mods,ect to improve your ability to dish out damage on the fight your having issues with.

*edit: i dont disagree with the intial point at btw, mobs are no threat and some bosses are just spongy or have well dodge or die attacks (or in some cases just die attacks cause some have tendency to spam the same attack on repeat)

[Godzilla.exe]

Originally posted by Fakewaterwalker:

i mean 'have to' is a bit disingenuous, you chose to reset your campaign, instead of just opening up an adventure mode to get a bit of materials and ♥♥♥♥ to upgrade your gear or find alternate weapons,accessories,mods,ect to improve your ability to dish out damage on the fight your having issues with.

*edit: i dont disagree with the intial point at btw, mobs are no threat and some bosses are just spongy or have well dodge or die attacks (or in some cases just die attacks cause some have tendency to spam the same attack on repeat)

You don't unlock adventure mode without beating the first world boss, so no. I could join random campaigns, but that's 50/50 on any completion.

My point is about the VETERAN difficulty (and higher) just increasing HP/Damage to the point that it's clearly not meant for lower level players and for some bosses (like Nightweaver) you just get progress-blocked because there is effectively no way around it at that level and with that tile-set.

[Fakewaterwalker]

me and my friends started on veteran, skipped first difficulty... had absolutely no issues at all getting to the point where adventure mode is unlocked. So, im gonna go out on a limb and assume your setup of rings weapons and upgrades are kinda ass, because we dont go back for upgrades unless we have a few thousand scrap banked

[Sigs]

I don't know if the leftmost difficulty has modifiers, but in Veteran+ anything with a healthbar on top of the screen has modifiers on top of whatever Veteran does to their stats.

If you rolled a 'vicious', 'thick skinned', 'regenerating', or other bad boss modifier early on, you're kinda boned. something like 8 of my story bosses were 'vicious' and it was a nightmare. 1HKO trains all over the place.

My biggest issue with Nightweaver is that that boss arena has crashed on me around 20 times.

The additional modifiers are going to put vast gaps in gameplay experience across different groups of players. Thick skinned and regenerating, or regenerating and draining can both roll on one boss, making it a ridiculous sponge that's horribly unfun, etc. etc.

that happened to a friend of mine that hadn't upgraded his medic LMG and he wasn't able to damage his boss at all

[Naamtar]

Difficulty changes do more than just create lazy HP sponges.

Apoc even adds new attacks.

[tyranid holocaust now]

The only higher difficulty that matters is apocalypse. Just play normal and gear up until you can do nightmare to unlock apocalypse. It's literally pointless to play veteran. It's pointless to even play Nightmare for any other reason than to unlock Apocalypse.

[Sigs]

you don't need to play nightmare to open apocalypse, just beat the game? It opened for me on veteran.

[Godzilla.exe]

Originally posted by Fakewaterwalker:

me and my friends started on veteran, skipped first difficulty... had absolutely no issues at all getting to the point where adventure mode is unlocked. So, im gonna go out on a limb and assume your setup of rings weapons and upgrades are kinda ass, because we dont go back for upgrades unless we have a few thousand scrap banked

Yeah I tried this out, what seems to be the problem is that certain bosses are a lot harder to start out in the areas than other areas.

For instance the alien/robot planet is very easy, while the bloodborne has nightweaver

[Denninja]

Nightweaver is a bad boss powered by cheapness. Her hitbox is too small and evasion too high to justify hp pool, damage is WAY TF TOO HIGH. How I would fix this: Lower the damage on her stun AoEs by 80%. Beetles, spawn 2 and +1 per player. Remove the dash+bullet attack or keep it to Apoc. Add a much longer tell to the instant kill grab and reduce its radius.

[Coup d' oeil]

Originally posted by Minterfresh:

Nightweaver is a bad boss powered by cheapness. Her hitbox is too small and evasion too high to justify hp pool, damage is WAY TF TOO HIGH. How I would fix this: Lower the damage on her stun AoEs by 80%. Beetles, spawn 2 and +1 per player. Remove the dash+bullet attack or keep it to Apoc. Add a much longer tell to the instant kill grab and reduce its radius.

Lol easier for your to lower the difficulty bud. The iframes are generous. Use your mods when she is most vulnerable she goes down pretty quick.

[Big Boi]

veteran is a bit too easy.... I join others and basically carry them through bosses they're struggling with. I found playing with others made the bosses harder because their damage usually sucked compared to my own.

[Mikatale]

I really do not understand, why people, playing this game on nightmare, tell that it is easy and veteran (difficulty) players, who struggle with this boss are not allowed to complain. You are not the target audience for these complains.

I play Handler and the pet is in boss fights useless. Neither Red Prince nor Nightweaver attacked the dog and the bleeding damage of the dog is....well if not for the symbol at the boss bar, it would not be visible at all. (The dog is cute though).

Now I struggle with the Nightweaver too. I have the Handler-Main Weapon on level +6 (no resources for further upgrades), Secondary Weapon also +6. The ammunition on main weapon is enough for 5 full mags (4 reloads). With 2 mags I get 1.5 blocks of Nightweavers Healthbar (it has 20 in first phase). I tried several times and was several times in a situation, where I could not attack it, when she summons her bugs (as you know she is very vulnerable in this "attack") because I was out of ammo and needed the bugs to refill. This is really a crappy boss design. Of course the two fire mods work wonders, but if I use them in the first phase, I do not have them in the second phase (and vice versa). So I can decide in which phase I start melee fights so save ammo. Maybe the Handler Main Weapon is just crap but there is nothing else for me to do and I do not have resources to upgrade any other weapon.

I must admit she is not impossible and I do not complain about her attacks. But it is kinda stupid to go into this fight, with only two variants of Cotton Ball Throwers...

[Tombstonegaming]

Honestly sounds like a skill issue to me. Yes, some starting areas are slightly harder than other, but I beat the whole game on solo Veteran in 20 hours. Yeah, now I'm one of those guys that got the worlds edge and beat the game on apocalypse... but that was 60 hours later of grinding and using many different builds for fun. I want you to understand that I got darksouls 3 and was too bad to ever beat the first boss... no cap. I even got remnant 1 and didn't finish the game because at the time it was a little too difficult for me still. Now I'm smoking root pack left and right and earned my skill over time. It takes me 2-4 hours to clear campaigns now. After hearing my story, you still don't think it's a skill issue?

[i2um1]

Originally posted by Naamtar:

Difficulty changes do more than just create lazy HP sponges.

Apoc even adds new attacks.

I've not seen new attacks. Bosses just do more damage and have more HP - as stupid as possible. Remnant 2 is worse than Remnant From The Ashes anyway.

Originally posted by Sigs:

If you rolled a 'vicious', 'thick skinned', 'regenerating', or other bad boss modifier early on, you're kinda boned. something like 8 of my story bosses were 'vicious' and it was a nightmare. 1HKO trains all over the place.

Empathy, Drain, Regenerator, Hearty, Thick Skin and Elemental Resist increase a boss fight duration. All my bosses always have Empathy + Drain/Regenerator, so what?

Vicious adds 15% more damage. The Corruptor's big laser with Vicious can't down my HP below 50% on Apoc. The first/last hit of the triple attack of Kaeula's Shadow with Vicious sometimes does 75% but my HP regen is bigger. Venom is a baby compared to mentioned before.

I do understand that most people play Hunter/Gunslinger so they are a glass cannon. But you applied your experience to everybody.

If you want really "fun" affixes then you need something like Vortex but only specific bosses may have it.

Originally posted by Tombstonegaming:

It takes me 2-4 hours to clear campaigns now. After hearing my story, you still don't think it's a skill issue?

The game was simplified a lot after several patches.

Originally posted by Mikatale:

I really do not understand, why people, playing this game on nightmare, tell that it is easy and veteran (difficulty) players, who struggle with this boss are not allowed to complain. You are not the target audience for these complains.

I play Handler and the pet is in boss fights useless. Neither Red Prince nor Nightweaver attacked the dog and the bleeding damage of the dog is....well if not for the symbol at the boss bar, it would not be visible at all. (The dog is cute though).

It's a skill issue because:
1. The pet may survive heavy hits, something like the Corruptor's laser, and revive you/your teammate.
2. Bleeding is super useful for Nightmare+ even if it does 1 DPS.

Originally posted by Mikatale:

I was out of ammo and needed the bugs to refill. This is really a crappy boss design. Of course the two fire mods work wonders, but if I use them in the first phase, I do not have them in the second phase (and vice versa). So I can decide in which phase I start melee fights so save ammo.

You can sell crystals and buy a few ammo boxes. I think your problem is something else since you didn't describe Red Prince.

Originally posted by Godzilla.exe:

For instance the alien/robot planet is very easy, while the bloodborne has nightweaver

Sha'Hala is harder than Nightweaver, the alt form even has something like a DPS check.

I think it should be like:
Red Sha'Hala > green Sha'Hala > alt Corruptor > Faelin/Faerin = Ravager > Nightweaver > Tal'Ratha > Corruptor > meta Tal'Ratha

[Vin]

Originally posted by Godzilla.exe:

~snip~

i never played NM or Apoc in RFtA because i dont care for sponge OHKO. my issue is that they delibrately locked rewards behind each difficulty where in RFtA, you could do hard and still get glowing shards.

sponge and OHKO do not make the game harder. its fake difficulty because the AI IS STILL THE SAME. it is an annoyance.

they could have just increased the spawn, increased elite spawn, increased glitch spawn, and add more moves to the bosses.

when people say "you dont have to do the higher difficulty" it just makes me laugh. how do i get vet NM and apoc guns without beating the game on those difficulties? you cant.