WHY, why ruin DR Developers?!

[Imperium]

I dont understand this, I just finally made a tank build that could take a few hits and I can enjoy clearing content on higher difficulties and they completely DESTROYED DR, Running 300 armor with DR rings and Bulwark stacks and faking cubes on nightmare can one shot me with their rush. Its faking nonsense. We dont all want to perfect dodge everything while killing spongy ass higher difficulty bosses that do nonstop AOE... so frustrated with this patch it ruined my fun and there was no reason to do this, Tank builds where not threatening game balance.

[TargetPractice]

A Dran Musket shot does about 65 damage against 0 damage resistance, on Survivor difficulty.
With 75.1% damage resistance from armor and on apocalypse, a Dran Musket shot does around 70 damage.
With 75.1% from armor, 5% from relic fragment, and on apocalypse, a Dran Musket shot does around 65 damage.
With 75.1% from armor, 5% from relic fragment, 10% from Barkskin, and on apocalypse, a Dran Musket shot does around 60 damage.
With 75.1% from armor, 5% from relic fragment, 10% from Barkskin, 10% from Restriction Cord, 15% from harden coil, and on apocalypse, a Dran Musket shot does around 42 damage.

This was just tested, so damage resistance cap should be 80%. Based on these numbers, mobs get about 4.325 times more damage on apocalypse difficulty, when compared to survivor.

Based on these tests, Each separate source of damage reduction does stack. There doesn't seem to be a cap on damage resistance, since the last test shows around 83.7% damage reduction. If damage was capped at 80%, then the last test should have done around 56 damage. If there is a cap on total damage resistance, it would be very high. Each instance of damage reduction may be capped at 80%. Armor is the closest you could get to 80% from one source, but the highest I could get it to is 77.7%.

[The Big Keg]

I don't agree with how durable some builds were pre-patch but I definitely don't think sledgehammering Damage Reduction was the best play. Since the new work around ignores Challenger and Engineer for tanking entirely and now focuses on Medic of all things.

I get the devs don't want immortal players, but unfortunately you can't create classes that have an advantage in tanking if that speciality is extraordinarily subpar and not what the devs actually want players to engage in. Albeit tanking is relative but there's no real reason for high DR builds anymore in high difficulties since it's more practical for high DPS and light armor not just in high diff but in general. Invader/Gunslinger/Hunter are insane.

If armour set bonuses were still a thing there could still be an argument for heavier suits of armour having interesting set bonuses but as it stands currently, it's just not really the best way to go too slow and too vulnerable (ironically)

[saice]

80% DR and masive heal tanking still works.

I end up swaping my tank build over to Medic/Summoner and stacking heals

[Imperium]

Origineel geplaatst door Kashra Fall:

And do they have that video on survivor, vet, nightmare, or apocalypse? The difficulties are designed to test you and hiding behind DR isn't/wasn't going to save you. Specific enemies hit stupidly hard, even with high DR. I know people don't want to dodge, but that is why the heavier armor just says "Stamina penalty, slower dodge." it doesn't take it away, it simply makes it more costly to be a last resort. Take a hit, dodge, heal, repeat.

I think logic here is flawed, sure we all understand that yes you can dodge, and if you are very good at it you can dodge it all, there are no hit runs out there, but that is also for elite players who are willing to master this to extreme point. I doubt I will ever have the expertise to dodge so precicely, should that stop me from playing? Sure if that was the only thing you can do, but thats why we have DR and healing and shields, all of those effects become pointless if the only way to survive is to dodge. People will simply run 0 encoumberence runs and dodge ultra fast.

Also point of enjoyment, if you want great dodge and dps you are using same 4 rings and amulet and mutator every other player but is that fun? Dont you want to see your summoner class or your engineer do well against bosses? For example Narud final boss on Nigthmare 21 is insane ammount of dodging and spacial awarness, and it takes like 10 minutes of shooting to kill, with two stages, its not fun if you die two dozen times on stage two because it sucks you up in a black hole while bombarding whole area with ice and homing missiles.

[Kappa]

Just did the meatball in apo ( hearty + thick skin ) coop 2 players .
the slam didng oneshot ( lol ).
flurry takes 3 hits to bring me down.
while flying the orbs deal 1/4 hp.

I know it wasn't vicious, but still Armor did its job.

[HatredUnbound]

Origineel geplaatst door Kashra Fall:

Origineel geplaatst door HatredUnbound:

This is silly. If they didn't go out of their way to plug archetypes and build diversity I MIGHT agree with you. But they have a 3 minute video tauting a class that is very difficult to kill and even IF they are downed they get a second wind. The implication here is CLEARLY that tanking is viable. But it categorically is not. It is not viable in any difficulty in the game.
Why tank on survivor when I could just play the same meta HUGS build everyone else is running and die in 1-2 less hits but kill the boss 10-15x times faster?
This correlates to every difficulty setting. The developers spent months hyping people up with the archetype videos, the illusion of wanting and encouraging build diversity but instead they essentially scaled everything where you're STILL only able to efficiently play 2-3 different build varieties.
If I want to play on Apocalypse and take 10x longer to kill a boss without particularly having to worry about health management...I don't see the reason I am barred from doing that...especially when they claimed I could.
All it's going to do is get people who don't like that playstyle to either A) use a trainer to just run through Apoc or B) go to the discord and ask a bunch of people who do like that playstyle if they would do it for them.
All in all if GFG wanted people to play that way, archetypes were a stupid idea. Especially a tank one.

And do they have that video on survivor, vet, nightmare, or apocalypse? The difficulties are designed to test you and hiding behind DR isn't/wasn't going to save you. Specific enemies hit stupidly hard, even with high DR. I know people don't want to dodge, but that is why the heavier armor just says "Stamina penalty, slower dodge." it doesn't take it away, it simply makes it more costly to be a last resort. Take a hit, dodge, heal, repeat.

At no point did I say that tanks should be immortal or be able to face tank everything in the game.
But let's be honest here. You run a tank build and I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say you went Engineering and Medic.
Medic gets a 25% damage increase. Engi gets the turret.
Your amulet is Twisted Idol for armor effectiveness and reduced encumbrance.
Rings : Generating Band for health regen with shield, Ring of Crisis for the "oh crap" moments and shield gen, Rerouting Cable for shield gen on stamina use, Amber moonstone for DR under 30%...then you have Hardened Coil, and all the bulwark stuff if you want to go that route instead of shield tanking.
Your damage is absolutely shredded now.
Similarly, you run the meta HUGS setup everyone else in the game runs and you'll do 10-15 TIMES the damage that that tank setup does.
Then, let's pretend this tank wants to actually dodge everything and go HUGS meta but is specced that way to get more time to learn patterns. They can't. Because like you say they are penalized stamina consumption and roll animation speed because of their overall weight. There are attack patterns that cannot be rolled through in that context because subsequent hits will come out faster than the roll animation finishes.
If the HUGS meta can do 10-15 times more damage than a DR setup, then the DR setup should be able to tank 10-15 times the hits that a < 50 armor setup can tank...but they can't. Which makes the playstyle not only inefficient but borderline useless.
The souls series (minus bloodborne) compensates for this by letting people block basically everything outside of a few attacks that are essentially one shot hits (or will 100% deplete stamina leaving you wide open). The fact that R2 doesn't have that option is absolutely stupid.
If you want to give people the capacity to play a tank-y build, then the damage potential they sacrifice for playing said build should be in line with that sacrifice. As it stands it is absolutely not in line.
You want to not let people be immortal? Fair. But when you weakspot on nightfall for 1200 and die in 2 hits in HUGS and 88 damage and die in 5 hits in full DR there's absolutely a balance problem.

[Atma]

Origineel geplaatst door TargetPractice:

A Dran Musket shot does about 65 damage against 0 damage resistance, on Survivor difficulty.
With 75.1% damage resistance from armor and on apocalypse, a Dran Musket shot does around 70 damage.
With 75.1% from armor, 5% from relic fragment, and on apocalypse, a Dran Musket shot does around 65 damage.
With 75.1% from armor, 5% from relic fragment, 10% from Barkskin, and on apocalypse, a Dran Musket shot does around 60 damage.
With 75.1% from armor, 5% from relic fragment, 10% from Barkskin, 10% from Restriction Cord, 15% from harden coil, and on apocalypse, a Dran Musket shot does around 42 damage.

This was just tested, so damage resistance cap should be 80%. Based on these numbers, mobs get about 4.325 times more damage on apocalypse difficulty, when compared to survivor.

Based on these tests, Each separate source of damage reduction does stack. There doesn't seem to be a cap on damage resistance, since the last test shows around 83.7% damage reduction. If damage was capped at 80%, then the last test should have done around 56 damage. If there is a cap on total damage resistance, it would be very high. Each instance of damage reduction may be capped at 80%. Armor is the closest you could get to 80% from one source, but the highest I could get it to is 77.7%.

People will ignore this because it doesn't fit the current rhetoric, but I just wanted to say thanks for testing this.

[vandalism]

Don't you know? First thing they teach in game dev school is "no fun allowed". If customers find a way to have fun in your game, remove it immediately.

[Time]

scrubs need to stop crying about not being able to cheat and learn to make a tank build