Why does it feel like scrap weapons outclass everything else?

[Malidictus]

My initial loadout in Remnant was pretty basic. An LMG, a Revolver and a buster sword made of scrap iron. I was under the impression that I'd eventually be replacing those weapons with fancier versions of alien or magical origin. Except almost every weapons I've found so far has been a straight downgrade from a weapon I already have. Looking into the stats for weapons I don't have, this seems to remain the case. Why is that?

Looking at my Iron Greatsword - what are my alternatives? There's the Royal Broadsword which appears to do weaker damage for no discernable upside, the Atom Splitter which does worse damage than the Scrap Hammer in return for a ranged attack on a melee weapon, the Stonebreaker which seems... about on par and the World's Edge which I'm never going to get because it requires Apocalypse Hardcore.

And that's just the sword. I can't find a decent replacement for my LMG. As in, there aren't any others. There's the Tommygun from the first game which is about on par and still a scrap weapon and that's about it. I guess maybe the Plasma Cutter?

Handgun is a bit of an exception to this, largely because the Enigma I'm using seems to be... excessively powerful to a really exclusive degree. I'll probably replace it with something else because I don't find its gameplay compelling, but not really sure what - besides the standard 5-shooter.

I guess maybe I had unreasonable expectations? It seems like scrap guns win on raw stats, but special weapons have gimmicks in their mods? But it's not like scrap guns don't have mods of their own, and I've frankly still not found anything compellingly superior than the dirt-simple flame rounds.

Am I doing something wrong?

[Kashra Fall]

Depends on how you want to build, if you can find a me a gun stronger than hunter/gunslinger and nightfall, then I will keep my mouth shut, but that gun has the ability of doing around 100k damage in 15 seconds of the ability activation, if not more. Depends on your crit/crit damage. LMG doesn't even come close to that, even with mods.

[Erikkustrife]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Depends on how you want to build, if you can find a me a gun stronger than hunter/gunslinger and nightfall, then I will keep my mouth shut, but that gun has the ability of doing around 100k damage in 15 seconds of the ability activation, if not more. Depends on your crit/crit damage. LMG doesn't even come close to that, even with mods.

The special bow has the potential to do the same dps as the nightfall.

[Postman Pat]

All weapons roughly cap out doing the same thing - check them at the DPS dummies. Some weapons have built-in mods that simply make them unappealing. Some mods are clearly better than other mods. Some weapons have a stat-package that make them far more appealing than others, too. Same was true in Rem 1. There's not really anything any game maker can ever do about that. Some stuff will just always be generally better.

[God Of Sages]

I got world edge just from a regular apocalypse run. I believe hardcore veteran difficulty is the highest one you need for a reward which is savior.

[Kashra Fall]

Originally posted by Erikkustrife:

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Depends on how you want to build, if you can find a me a gun stronger than hunter/gunslinger and nightfall, then I will keep my mouth shut, but that gun has the ability of doing around 100k damage in 15 seconds of the ability activation, if not more. Depends on your crit/crit damage. LMG doesn't even come close to that, even with mods.

The special bow has the potential to do the same dps as the nightfall.

DPS is not the overall damage myfriend. I can do 2k DPS with a coach shotgun, it won't be anywhere close to what the nightfall can do with the proper build/proper hands.

[Karkarov]

This is totally a you problem. This game is about builds, finding one you like, and playing it. Power in this game is determined long term more by your traits, class choices, rings, amulet, and most important.... mods. You get all those things to work in concert you might not even need guns for much of anything... See Engineer and Archon.

[Postman Pat]

Originally posted by Kashra Fall:

Originally posted by Erikkustrife:

The special bow has the potential to do the same dps as the nightfall.

DPS is not the overall damage myfriend. I can do 2k DPS with a coach shotgun, it won't be anywhere close to what the nightfall can do with the proper build/proper hands.

This for sure. I believe most weapons do about the same DPS. It's about the utility each weapon brings to the table. Bows are super strong at one-hit damage, especially when you hit the timing properly - but even if you are just doing fully-charged shots, they hit quite hard and do high DPS.

But they're inflexible. If you've got a time-pressure to clear targets (several boss fights have 3+ targets you have to kill in a limited amount of time before they activate or the boss returns to taking other actions against you), a bow is not very good, so you will probably want to compensate with a more generalist-style secondary weapon.

Bows also have very low ammo counts, so you may need to take a relic fragment or a ring that helps you with ammo usage.

The DPS per each weapon, flat, is roughly the same. Except for some extremely odd weapons, like Godslicer, which is just objectively weaker than other options, despite it's seemingly powerful modifier.

[adobo]

Everything is just a sidegrade. You pick your guns based on how you like it. You use the scrap guns because think its better. I use the scrap guns because I like to kill monsters with guns held together by hopes and dreams.

[Velmoria]

It's been like that since Remnant 1, all weapons are viable for use. Weapon without ability tend to have higher base damage. Remnant 2 might being adjusted a little.

[Player 1]

Iron greatswrod is thw highest dmg output in the game , everytime the game gets hard , I just put it back on and slay xD

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by majikero:

Everything is just a sidegrade. You pick your guns based on how you like it. You use the scrap guns because think its better. I use the scrap guns because I like to kill monsters with guns held together by hopes and dreams.

Yeah, I suppose. Just seems odd to me that I keep finding otherwise interesting weapons that seem to... not really do as well as the garbage scrap ones. Maybe if I had the ability to change their appearance it wouldn't be so odd.

I guess I was more wondering why the game has only a single LMG. Granted, that's one more than the previous game, but still. We have eleventy billion slugthrower pistols pretty much across the spectrum, but there's all of one LMG? Or I guess are we counting the Tommygun?

Originally posted by Karkarov:

This is totally a you problem. This game is about builds, finding one you like, and playing it. Power in this game is determined long term more by your traits, class choices, rings, amulet, and most important.... mods. You get all those things to work in concert you might not even need guns for much of anything... See Engineer and Archon.

It's more the principle of the thing. I like scrap weapons as much as the next guy, but it's just odd that everything else has weaker stats. I THINK they're supposed to make up for it with gimmicks. Like, say, the Merciless. Less damage, smaller magazine, but it does Bleed. I'm assuming that's the balance point. So for the weapons without gimmicks, their stats would need to be naturally high to compensate. Or something to that effect.

I'm not THAT fussed about performance. Just failing to understand the design.

Originally posted by Postman Pat:

All weapons roughly cap out doing the same thing - check them at the DPS dummies.

I'll have to get them upgraded, but yeah - not a bad idea. Wish I could do that for melee weapons, but I can't hit the targets standing in the area where DPS is counted.

[adobo]

Out of the 3 worlds, only the scifi planet has the tech to make an LMG. Which you kinda get with the Engineer archetype. If you want a heat buildup weapon, there's the cube gun and the plasma cutter.

[Quagimus Decimus]

No idea what you're talking about the LMG is quite literally S tier for starter weapons, and outclasses every other starter weapon. You pair it with twisted rounds, firestorm ability, and just pew pew away everything. Works great in apoc difficulty too. Run the heat ring on top, with a crit/bleed setup and it just melts with a large ammo reserve.

[LS95]

Have you heard about Our Lord and Savior, Firestorm?

But seriously, Firestorm is just insane. Max AoE trait makes its size comparable to Aphelion's shot-enhanced supernova, and it has the double-edged sword of lasting way longer than it has any right to while it constantly ticks fire damage as it constantly refreshes the burning status. Survivor difficulty basically nothing can run anywhere close to it without just instantly dying and even elites/beefy enemies get melted down fast enough to be a non-issue, still mostly viable as a main source of damage on Veteran from personal experience building for max fire and burn. Not to mention it mostly pays for its own mod cost with a +10 Feedback mutator.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Quagalicious:

No idea what you're talking about the LMG is quite literally S tier for starter weapons, and outclasses every other starter weapon.

But that IS what I'm talking about :) The starter weapons seem to outclass pretty much everything else in the game. Outside of the Enigma (which I consider to be overpowered), every single weapon I've picked up has felt like a downgrade from the starter weapons at Brabus. I know people say "sidegrade", but to me they just feel objectively weaker. Once I realised that, it fundamentally undermined my sense of progress. I knew that pretty much nothing I found would be useful to me.

Originally posted by majikero:

Out of the 3 worlds, only the scifi planet has the tech to make an LMG. Which you kinda get with the Engineer archetype. If you want a heat buildup weapon, there's the cube gun and the plasma cutter.

Yeah, I think the Plasma Cutter may be a good contender. I'm currently trying to get a hold of one. I should also probably look into the Engineer class. Heavy weapons sound like a ton of fun.

I think LMGs might just be a "me" thing, though - as someone said upthread. Video games in general seem to have issues with LMGs, either not having any or only having a scant few relative to the full weapons list. All too often, they also suck. I'm really happy that Remnant 2 has a PROPER LMG, even if I don't end up replacing it. Just wish I could find a mod that's both good and doesn't look like scrap :)

Originally posted by LS95:

Have you heard about Our Lord and Savior, Firestorm?

I've been wondering about that one. My co-op partner used it to great effect (often on ME) and it seemed like a pretty good choice. I guess I'm a lazy gamer, so the very straightforward flame rounds mod just seemed easier to get mileage out of :) I'll play around with the Firestorm, especially if it makes the gun look a bit less rusty.