Remnant II

Remnant II

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Malidictus Aug 3, 2023 @ 7:53am
[spoilers] Wish there were more sci-fi worlds
Remnant 2 is certainly rich on content - arguably more so than the previous game. However, it feels very... poor on themes. It feels like the vast majority of the game is some variety of high fantasy. Two of the three Adventure worlds, certainly. Remnant: From the Ashes launched with four worlds: Earth, Rhom, Corsus, Yesha. Of those, Earth is sci-fi ish and Rhom is definitely sci-fi, while Corsus and Yesha are largely fantasy.

In contrast, Remnant 2 launched with 3 worlds: Losom, Yesha, N'erud. Of those, only N'erud is sci-fi, with both Losom and Yesha being high fantasy. And incidentally, why Yesha again? It was easily the most boring, least imaginative world of the first game. "A magical forest". Yay, because we've never seen that one a million times.

And before you correct me, I AM omitting two locations - the Labyrinth and Root Earth. Neither of those is randomly-generated and neither of them is particularly large. More to the point, neither is available for Adventure mode. But even besides that - Root Earth barely resembles Earth, which was already borderline sci-fi, and the Labyrinth is... Certainly interesting, but its own separate genre altogether.

I really wish we could revisit Rhom in one of the DLCs. That was a really cool world, and a decent balance of fantasy elements with high-concept sci-fi. I also wish we could explore more of Root Earth. The notion of there being an almost perfect copy of Earth but fully taken over by the Root opens the door to some possibilities for the multiverse - even if we've proven that it's all basically a giant simulation, by this point.

Remnant has always been odd to me. It has such a cool premise, allowing for nearly infinite variety of locations, and yet... It almost never does. Earth is cool, but Rhom is mostly a desert, Corsus is a swamp, Yesha is a forest, Reisum is a snowy mountain... It's as if the team picked the most generic, milktoast fantasy settings and ran down the entire list. Rhom is interesting due to the alien architecture and Earth is not a typical setting for this sort of game. Yet at the same time, only N'erud has so far felt truly sci-fi... despite also being partially a desert.

Here's hoping for DLC :)
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Showing 1-15 of 40 comments
Cruddy Aug 3, 2023 @ 8:09am 
I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ don't, the guns like like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and the enemies are so beyond obnoxious .
Mr Fantastic Aug 3, 2023 @ 8:16am 
I hope we don't get the desert for DLC unless it has some badass piramids and proper enemies resembling egyptian mythology like we have in star gate. If they took ideas from star gate we could have an amazing desert biome.

Earth has to be one of the new biomes as well, it was by far the best looking one in game right at the start, it's a shame it was so short.

It's hard to think of other biomes, because unless we're talking about the most distint biomes on earth, it's hard not to make it all feel the same.

I would love to see an underwater biome like we have in bioshock, and maybe we could have some kind of cyberpunk alien city to continue the Nerud saga.

Another one that would be cool would be a dark world fully overtaken by the root, with Cthulesm enemies. Root earth tried it, but it felt flat.
[GK] /// Aug 3, 2023 @ 8:38am 
I feel like Root is very overdone and they made the right choice of it only affecting Yesha and Earth. More Sci-fi, yes. I wouldn't mind returning to Rhom. Corsus would need a huge overhaul to be even remotely interesting again.
Malidictus Aug 3, 2023 @ 8:40am 
Originally posted by Mr Fantastic:
Earth has to be one of the new biomes as well, it was by far the best looking one in game right at the start, it's a shame it was so short.

Agreed. Earth was my favourite world, and not just because I'm a fan of Darksiders :) There's a lot of mileage you can get out of ruined cities in ways that caves and forests just don't replicate. It's not exactly "unique", but it's certainly distinct and I miss it a lot. I definitely hope we get an Earth adventure, even if it's just more ruined city.



Originally posted by Mr Fantastic:
I would love to see an underwater biome like we have in bioshock, and maybe we could have some kind of cyberpunk alien city to continue the Nerud saga. Another one that would be cool would be a dark world fully overtaken by the root, with Cthulesm enemies. Root earth tried it, but it felt flat.

It would be nice to get a world that fully commits to its sci-fi themes, yes. N'erud was a good effort, but it was still mired in talk about souls and creators and destiny, etc. That and it's also a desert - despite the Custodian describing it as "the ship". I'd like to see an adventure taking place in, say, an arcology or a futuristic city, like you said. Just... something that doesn't have to be anchored to standard fantasy tropes.



Honestly, it feels to me like the developers are somehow afraid that players would reject full-on sci-fi, so it always has to be tempered by gods, or aristocracy, or wide sweeping deserts, or some kind of ancient religion. And it's not like all the worlds we visit are dead. Losom isn't. Yeah, it's a world in decline, but there are still plenty of people living out their lives and a nobility at least attempting to recover some semblance of civilisation. So a mostly decrepit sci-fi city or structure would be nice.



Originally posted by GK ///:
I feel like Root is very overdone and they made the right choice of it only affecting Yesha and Earth. More Sci-fi, yes. I wouldn't mind returning to Rhom. Corsus would need a huge overhaul to be even remotely interesting again.

Agreed. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with it, but it's... just a swamp. Yesha at least has the "zigguraut" theme going for it, but Corsus is mostly just wilderness. It's hard to make that compelling. Now if they'd committed to it and gone full-on Geiger-style bug architecture.

Speaking of which, I'd like to see a Scorn style world. N'erud is close, but thematically still quite different.
Last edited by Malidictus; Aug 3, 2023 @ 8:42am
Arngrim Aug 3, 2023 @ 8:46am 
I don´t really want to revisit anything old in the dlc. I´d love more sci-fi stuff, but please, put a bow on the root story and move forward with something new.
Kazaanh Aug 3, 2023 @ 9:07am 
N'erud was absolutely fantastic. Ambience, enemies, lore behind it and Sha'hala one of the most fun boss encounters.

While i would love to see revisited Rhom to see whats up with Undying King and guardian heart he got from us.

And queen from Corsus that wanted to create Root 2.0 with her parasites.

I think we might have 2 good contenders to be main villains for future, altought i hope Root is not completely eradicated cause they make very interesting enemy to fight against.

I hope DLC at least first one will bring some fresh new world, not earth. Something new.

But i wouldn't mind DLC to be focused around expanding current 3 worlds we have. With more loot, more boss variety, enemies and encounters.
I'm hoping for something snowy towards the end of the year :)
Copy & Cat Aug 3, 2023 @ 9:22am 
Honestly the setting of fantasy undergoing industrial revolution is great and wished they explored more of that side on Losom.

N'erud is a rethread of Rhom almost, and Yesha is made to give more narrative progression for root and player actions by having a before and after example.

Would definetly want weirder new areas instead of repeating threaded path because i dont think Rhom or anything from the previous game should show up again
Last edited by Copy & Cat; Aug 3, 2023 @ 9:33am
Sonrangeri Aug 3, 2023 @ 9:30am 
I'd love Cthulhu-themed water city. Also snow maps would be awesome. :)
Malidictus Aug 3, 2023 @ 10:24am 
Originally posted by Arngrim:
I don´t really want to revisit anything old in the dlc. I´d love more sci-fi stuff, but please, put a bow on the root story and move forward with something new.

This I do agree with. Honestly, the whole "Core World" storyline has felt pretty shallow since the start. We get it. It's a simulation. The Root are a virus or a bug or what have you. They're the ultimate destroyers. They're also super boring red-and-back edgelord trees. Making them the main villain is just so underwhelming. Personally, I feel they should have been positioned as one of many threats, rather than the central one.

Honestly, the Iskal strike me as a far more compelling, far more insidious threat. But no - glitchy trees. We can use some variety.



Originally posted by Brix | Friendly old Scrub:
I'm hoping for something snowy towards the end of the year :)

I just hope it's not Reisum again. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with it and it's important for the story, but it's a very... unremarkable world. Snowy mountains and snow-themed enemies. Visually, it's boring and thematically it's quite hollow. I struggle to remember anything about it - to the point that I'd forgotten it even existed. Ward Prime was more memorable than that.

That's not to say that a snow world is inherently bad, though. There would just need to be more to it than snow. Say, that snowy planet from Dead Space 3. I know people slagged that game for a variety of legitimate reasons, but the setting isn't bad. Snow and ruined colony buildings from a lost advanced civilisation. We could use a truly DEAD world, I think.



Originally posted by Copy & Cat:
Honestly the setting of fantasy undergoing industrial revolution is great and wished they explored more of that side on Losom.

And if that's what it were, I would agree. Bit it's really only a couple of zones that have this theme. The majority of it is bog-standard fantasy "elf" architecture and narrative. I honestly have the suspicion that these were meant to be two separate worlds which got merged together to save on development time. They utterly fail to connect.

The Fey parts are all high court drama about the Impostor King and the dual world. The Dran parts all seem to be about the struggles of the underclass under a world which was dying long before the Guardian was put to sleep. Monsters from the ID, essentially - monsters that people can't see, which drive them mad. Sure, you can resolve the discrepancies with enough creative reading between the lines, but they feel like two fundamentally dissimilar settings.

Because yeah, I agree - exploring an Industrial Revolution era society of magical creatures struggling under the march of technology would definitely be interesting. Instead, it's a few throwaway zones in an otherwise high fantasy setting which clash so badly.



Originally posted by Copy & Cat:
Would definetly want weirder new areas instead of repeating threaded path because i dont think Rhom or anything from the previous game should show up again

In principle, I agree. But then why do we revisit Yesha? If we were going to revisit one place from the old game, why did it have to be among the most boring ones? Yes, it has to do with the Root, but we could have explored the Root in their own separate world. If anything, there's precious little OF Yesha to be seen, since it's Root all the way down. Unless they saved work by reusing old assets (which I feel might have been the case), then I fail to see why THAT made the cut when nothing else did.
Gaist Heidegger Aug 4, 2023 @ 5:53am 
It's incredibly lame that they went with the simulation schtick, it makes functionally everything pointless / meaningless / without stakes. There's no point to any measure of world lore for these different spaces when it's all just some program running - it just as well may all be a literal dream from the 'dreamer' which was already dubious. Meh, I was extremely disappointed the moment Annihilation switched to Phase 2 and it was Red Tron time.
Malidictus Aug 4, 2023 @ 10:57am 
Originally posted by Gaist Heidegger:
It's incredibly lame that they went with the simulation schtick, it makes functionally everything pointless / meaningless / without stakes. There's no point to any measure of world lore for these different spaces when it's all just some program running - it just as well may all be a literal dream from the 'dreamer' which was already dubious. Meh, I was extremely disappointed the moment Annihilation switched to Phase 2 and it was Red Tron time.

To be fair, this seems to have always been the case. I can't speak to Chronos since I never played that, but I remember it being heavily implied in From the Ashes. The Dreamer fight is similarly very tron. That and the Labyrinth Keeper still talked about the Core, upon which the Labyrinth is built, upon which all worlds are built. I remember Earth being special in that it didn't have nor need a Guardian, but most of the lore seems to have been retained.

And I agree - I don't like it either. Reality-warping rarely makes for good storytelling. We need hard limitations on what can and can't be done, else nothing means anything. There actually WAS one. The Keeper couldn't clear all of the corruption without doing a factory reset on the multiverse, which would have essentially killed everyone. That's why we needed an alternate solution.

Then Clementine went and did it - or appeared to have. The only way I see of salvaging this is to recontextualise what happened not as a "reset, but without the Root" but rather as a "system restore point". We went back a ways, curbed the corruption, but still need to actually deal with it. It's not perfect, but it's A way to introduce some consequences.
Army of Optimists Aug 4, 2023 @ 11:21am 
I don't have any issues with the world being a simulation of some sort because it avoids the worst part of that trope - reaching the world outside of the simulation. That's the part that destroys the stakes in the story. Having a real world on top of the simulated one means only the real world actually matters.

Remnant hasn't shown any indication that there's another world outside of the simulation. When we see it all collapse at the end, there's nothing left. Just a blank void. It's not so much the world is a simulation, but that reality runs on computer logic at the core. There's an administrator (the Keeper), various worlds partitioned out into discrete files that don't intermingle but can be traversed if you know the file system (the Labyrinth), programs (like Clementine as the Utility and the player as the Anomaly), and even malware (the Root).

It's not really a simulation. It's just an alternate take on what reality is.
Player 1 Aug 4, 2023 @ 11:23am 
I wish there were more jungle / forest worlds.
Last edited by Player 1; Aug 4, 2023 @ 11:23am
Malidictus Aug 4, 2023 @ 11:27am 
Originally posted by Army of Optimists:
It's not really a simulation. It's just an alternate take on what reality is.

That's true. The Keeper himself flatly states that there's no way to specilate what exists beyond the multiverse, or indeed if anything does. I suppose my point was less that the multiverse is an instanced simulation in some greater machine, but rather that it behaves like one. The universe is constructed from the top down and - more than that - offers direct direct controls to the underlying kernel.

There exists a level of abstraction which renders anything we could possibly ever do meaningless. Why fight enemies, when you can hex-edit the universe and delete their pointers from memory in a single loop, then wait for garbage collection to remove them? Essentially, this elevates in-game entities to the level of screenwriter and so fundamentally undermines willing suspension of disbelief. Without limitations, there is no compelling storytelling.
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Date Posted: Aug 3, 2023 @ 7:53am
Posts: 40