Whats the point of tank builds if you can still be on-shot?

[Matticus]

Honest question, why not just build pure damage? 80% resist isn't worth ♥♥♥♥ in this game.

[yuzhonglu]

They work on Nightmare and Veteran.

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

very good question, i have many similar questions.
Like whats the point of automatic guns in this game if everything is designed for crits or weakpoints? especially bosses
Why are there so many trinkets that doesnt help in builds?
Why is the economy so hyper constrainted? i can barely get enough lumenite crystals to craft a few new guns and mods. It's very hard to upgrade my guns.

But the damage resistance is very interesting because the devs seem to have clearly have favored certain mechanics and not balance the game.
It's the game pushing players into high damage low rate of fire, dodging over damage resistance, upgrading only your guns and not crafting anything you don't need etc

[Harris]

Absolutely no point, just build for higher dps numbers.

[Black Hammer]

Someone in the design pipeline wants multiple builds to be possible.

Early on, they design wide for various options.

Then come balance time, someone picks out The Correct Way to play and leaves most of those options pointless.

Enjoy being tanky or focusing on melee on lowest difficulty, because it won't be viable in the real game.

[Cruddy]

Because for whatever reason action game developers are obsessed with dodging being the "true" way to play and don't care about balancing the game around different ways to play but still advertise it as such, even FromSoft isn't immune to this, armor is downright useless after Dark Souls 1.

[Handbanana]

Originally posted by Matticus:

Honest question, why not just build pure damage? 80% resist isn't worth ♥♥♥♥ in this game.

If you are getting 1 shot then you aren't building a tank build properly. You can go watch videos of people literally tanking shots in apocalypse and not caring. The damage resist cap is for armor its not a hard cap. You can get 80% and then further reduce damage past that point.

In fact i just watched this video like 15 minutes ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDog0knvwOE&t=247s You can see him clearly tanking hits and just not caring about it.

[Grimzy]

The answers here clearly tell you do not know how to build a "tank", also being a tank does not mean you should just eat every single hit of damage and think you survive.

[Grimacetexas9]

because having a build allowing you to face tank the game and not dodge everything would defeat the whole purpose and skill. why dodge when you can ... not dodge and shoot? just build damage reduction and use the engineer turret since it barely scales off anything and rip trough the game like this. and even so i saw a video of someone attempting a facetank on this red chainsaw elite in the asylum on the apocalypse and facetank it with melee so tanky builds are still viable you are just doing them wrong.

[Rusty_V4]

It's always a balance problem in skill based games because just tanking hits doesn't require skill at all. I assumed before the game even released that shrugging off damage was going to be viable up to veteran difficulty. On nightmare and apocalypse I assume building a tanky class would help you survive many attacks other players won't and have second chances where others get 1-shot, but for the most part you'll still have to engage with the well timed dodge since it's a core mechanic of the game.

[D. Flame]

Originally posted by Neyreyan_Youtube:

Like whats the point of automatic guns in this game if everything is designed for crits or weakpoints? especially bosses

I was wondering that with some of the machine guns. Slow to build up, wide spread to start, super slow reloads, etc.

Then to top it off, as if they didn't have enough down sides, they make them over heat as well, and you can't even weapon swap when they are overheated.

[kazaric]

Originally posted by Handbanana:

Originally posted by Matticus:

Honest question, why not just build pure damage? 80% resist isn't worth ♥♥♥♥ in this game.

If you are getting 1 shot then you aren't building a tank build properly. You can go watch videos of people literally tanking shots in apocalypse and not caring. The damage resist cap is for armor its not a hard cap. You can get 80% and then further reduce damage past that point.

In fact i just watched this video like 15 minutes ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDog0knvwOE&t=247s You can see him clearly tanking hits and just not caring about it.

Bullsh*t. I actually used an even tankier variation of this build with Alchemist instead of challenger and no wasted trait points on non tanking traits like Handling, Untouchable and Strongback and it still does not work.

What you don't realize is that bosses in this game have random affixes, and when a boss gets an affix called Vicious (increased damage) it renders all your tanking efforts completely worthless. Here are some example clips of me getting destroyed by Vicious bosses on apoc:
https://streamable.com/62omvf
https://streamable.com/jemv7j
https://streamable.com/3tunmr
https://streamable.com/sz03ns
That 10 minute video you posted doesn't really mean anything when the guy is just fighting some weak Losomn boss with no Vicious affix. And before you bring up the 100% resist invincible engineer build yes I too am aware of that and yes it's an exploit. For normal tank builds that revolve around the Restriction Cord yes you are right you can still further reduce damage past 80% but that usually requires reaching certain amount of thresholds like 25% health with Amber Moonstone etc, and that is worthless when a Vicious boss completely evaporates your health in 1 hit.

[Army of Optimists]

Originally posted by D. Flame:

Originally posted by Neyreyan_Youtube:

Like whats the point of automatic guns in this game if everything is designed for crits or weakpoints? especially bosses

I was wondering that with some of the machine guns. Slow to build up, wide spread to start, super slow reloads, etc.

Then to top it off, as if they didn't have enough down sides, they make them over heat as well, and you can't even weapon swap when they are overheated.

Overheat is kind of a bonus since it allows you to use the Constant Variable Ring to get ~10% extra damage. Possibly more if you combine it with the Microcompressor.

[[ARA] Panzergott]

Originally posted by yuzhonglu:

They work on Nightmare and Veteran.

Maybe on Veteran but surely not on Nightmare. May work for the first 10 power levels but when you get to 15+ its completely pointless.

As someone whos made multiple attempts at Tank builds. You just cant do it. 80% DR and summons "share" damage still aint enough. Even normal enemies in Late-Game Nightmare can completely 1 shot or come close to it. Nevermind bosses or a Vicious modifier on something.

Boutta finish my Nightmare run so I can laugh at the absurdity that Apocalypse most likely is. The Damage creep in this game is incredibly unbalanced.

[Handbanana]

Originally posted by kazaric:

Originally posted by Handbanana:

If you are getting 1 shot then you aren't building a tank build properly. You can go watch videos of people literally tanking shots in apocalypse and not caring. The damage resist cap is for armor its not a hard cap. You can get 80% and then further reduce damage past that point.

In fact i just watched this video like 15 minutes ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDog0knvwOE&t=247s You can see him clearly tanking hits and just not caring about it.

Bullsh*t. I actually used an even tankier variation of this build with Alchemist instead of challenger and no wasted trait points on non tanking traits like Handling, Untouchable and Strongback and it still does not work.

What you don't realize is that bosses in this game have random affixes, and when a boss gets an affix called Vicious (increased damage) it renders all your tanking efforts completely worthless. Here are some example clips of me getting destroyed by Vicious bosses on apoc
https://streamable.com/62omvf
https://streamable.com/jemv7j
https://streamable.com/3tunmr

That 10 minute video you posted doesn't really mean anything when the guy is just fighting some weak Losomn boss with no Vicious affix. And before you bring up the 100% resist invincible engineer build yes I too am aware of that and yes it's an exploit. For normal tank builds that revolve around the Restriction Cord yes you are right you can still further reduce damage past 80% but that usually requires reaching certain amount of thresholds like 25% health with Amber Moonstone etc, and that is worthless when a Vicious boss completely evaporates your health in 1 hit.

I mean that was just a general proof of concept that I happened to pop up on my feed a few minutes before I saw this thread. I fully understand how bosses have mods. The tanky builds require the 10 points from improved armor as well. The increased armor from the trait is not an exploit. I don't know which exploit you are refering to. Not sure what your full build is in those videos so its hard to say. Are you implying you are being 1 shot in these videos with all the tank items, armor trait and barkskin and shadeskin equipped?

[Mononymouse]

There are attacks in the game that instakill.

armor isn't as useful as dodge.