One shot mechanics are not fun

[Vatolicious]

Obviously everyone will just comment "Git gud". Whatever,

My point is not that its too hard, its that its not fun or interesting. The first game was mostly simple bosses who spawned endless extra adds into the fight. People complained about that, but at least you could build accordingly, and it kept things hectic and intense.

Seemingly this game has replaced extra adds with one shot mechanics. Most bosses have them, many have 2-3. They are not usually very telegraphed or visible as being powerful. Typically if games mean to include those sorts of attacks they are visually unique in some way, and there may be an in fiction way to avoid it or prevent it.

Relying on one shot mechanics for difficulty is very reductive. What benefit is heavy armor or health regen? The majority of build decisions only effect the open world experience, and every boss fight seems to just be, wear light armor, and put on archetypes that you can nuke the boss quickly.

Sha'Hala is a really well designed fight with a ton of different phases. Absolutely does not need one shot mechanics. There is plenty of damage to avoid. Legion is very cool and requires good timing and positioning. Does it really need a one shot blast wave? In my opinion remove the one shot mechanics and increase the damage of other abilities. Force us to choose between damage and survivability. This will encourage more build and gearing diversity.

[wakey wakey]

The one shot mechanics are not so much of an issue in sp but in mp they kinda make the game a joke.

The game is p2p with no option to region lock. You will no get a lot of na--->eu--->asia players playing together with a 1-3sec delay. On many bosses that doesnt matter at all but bosses with oneshots mechanics which ignore armor/hp or are straight up scripted insta kills are toxic as hell.

As an example abomination is one of the easiest bosses you can get on Nerud for an hc run. Just unequip your armor and you're good to go while he is an absolute nightmare in mp even on lower difficulties because of the 1-3 second delay and 2 oneshot mechanics on lower difficulties and 3-4 on the higher ones.

There are so many bosses which are barely playable in mp on higher difficulties because of the no region lock thing combined with oneshots it's not even funny.

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by Raesha Moondancer:

In remnant gear is indeed pointless, infact upgrading your gear makes you -less- powerfull,

That's incorrect. You have to upgrade your gear to keep up with power level progression. If you don't, you will end up with power level 10 on level 0 weapons.

Bosses also have a minimum power level so if you don't upgrade, you will have a harder time.

[Mr Chicken]

I feel like people missed the fact that this is Dark Souls with guns, Dark Souls has one shot mechanics and everything hits like a truck, the key thing is that every single attack is telegraphed once you learn the patterns, there's pretty much always a sound queue as well to tell you the attack is about to happen. You're going to die a lot as you learn the attacks and how to avoid them, that's literally one of the main points of a souls like game, if you find that tedious then this isn't the game for you.

That being said, I will agree that some bosses are a little funky, hitboxes don't seem to line up well sometimes, like a boss will swing their sword, you see the VFX and the sword swinging motion but you're way out of it's range, still hits you, the animations and size of boss weapons don't line up with the hitboxes at all, in so many cases there's basically an invisible extended range to enemies attacks. I don't have a problem with the range but it would be nice if the visuals lined up.

Also pro tip to everyone, turn music off, enemy attacks almost always have a sound queue especially bosses, with music on it becomes difficult to hear that sound that tells you to dodge. When you turn music off you'll be blown away how blatantly the game tells you when to dodge.

[Moonfear]

i completely agree

Game itself is quite good, but one shot mechanics are killing all the fun. For example i have myself issue with reflexes, so "timed dodge" is something i cannot do no matter how long i practice and yet i have finished most of soul games thru use of game systems that did not push me in one game style. I understand that someone with better reflex can find it enjoyable and "easy", but not me. And as was stated allready, it kills any use for regen builds or armor builds. I am ok with "mechanicaly" complicated bosses, that can be fun, even if it takes time to learn mechanics, but pushing me into one specific game style is bad design. If i can play multiple builds and then i encounter few bosses that invalidate those builds completely, what are they good for?

For example i do not play sekiro, its parry focused game thus based on perfect reflexes, i cannot do that, ok, i will play something else. In Nioh (plat in both) i was able to overcome everything via builds that suited my playstyle, dark souls too.

I love remnant 2, its excelent game, but if i knew its bosses are purely dodge based, i would not buy it.

[Majere]

Originally posted by Gul Bjorn:

Gotta learn dodge windows.

Correct, but that's where the issue lies. If you give a boss an attack that does a lot of damage, which they use a lot, and which can be dodged, then even if you build a character that can tank it you still need to learn to dodge it at least some of the time. But the fact that you _can_ survive it gives you more chances to figure it out.

But if that attack is a one-shot, or is so powerful that it effectively one-shots unless you gimp your roll with heavy armour, then you get one try at dodging it per run (or two, if you spec Challenger). That hugely increases the time spent running back, looking at loading screens, and doing things that aren't actually playing the game.

Personally, I got so fed up trying Annihilation that I went and watched a no-hit on Youtube just to give me half a chance of figuring out what was going on. Now I'm levelling some different gear and classes to try coming at it from a different angle.

[Yuki Terumi]

For solo play most of the bosses are...just "ok" (wondering what kind of games people are playing that say these are the best bosses in recent memory).

With coop scaling and the networking aspect, most of the bosses are extremely bad. Joined a friend who started playing this past weekend. His first world rolled at level 7, my level was 16 and the second minor boss had the vicious attribute (boss version of the elite that teleports and shoots arrows) and every single attack was a literal one shot for us both.

[Xeowolf]

Originally posted by Johnny:

This guy has a point. Nightweaver is the worst boss in this game.

Venom and the last boss are the worst in the game.
And as someone who built an extremely durable tanky / regen build who can take any hit in the game a few times over. I can def say the 1 shots are terrible and a bad design.

More to the point, having a heavy armor build where you can't roll is actually more likely to get you killed, which further proves the point of this thread. 1 shot mechanics invalidate builds meaning this is a poor design choice.

Also Nightweaver was a fantastic fight. The entire sequence was well done.
Atmospheric, good mechanics and just overall fun.

My friends and I have enjoyed that fight most of all. And Yes. The boss 1 shot my tank build and we laughed because of how funny it was.

But that is a situation where you learn it and then learn to stay away from walls. That sort of well defined 1 shot is okay.

But Venom? At least 2 or 3 of his attacks will 1 shot you or do so much damage it might as well be a 1 shot.

Throw sword and fly to you slam ground. - DEAD
Orbs fly to you and explode or leave death zone on the ground (DEAD)
Phase 2 rings appear on ground and shoot up - 1 shot.
Note the blast radius on these is bigger than the ring. So even if you roll out you might still die.

This is a ♥♥♥♥ boss.

[Vatolicious]

A lot of the kind of comments I expected lol. Its really not hard, just go gunslinger and alchemist and rotate your dps ability's and nuke the boss fast. Works on Nightmare at least. Once again I state, not hard, just not enjoyable. As some have stated what is the point of armor?

[Xeowolf]

Originally posted by Vatolicious:

A lot of the kind of comments I expected lol. Its really not hard, just go gunslinger and alchemist and rotate your dps ability's and nuke the boss fast. Works on Nightmare at least. Once again I state, not hard, just not enjoyable. As some have stated what is the point of armor?

You shouldn't have to change your spec or class build to beat a boss.
Every boss should be killable by every archetype or it's bad game design. Period.
It's also cumbersome to change specs and rings etc. And also not free.

I said earlier that NIghtweaver is a great fight. I still like it.
But after fighting the boss a few more times I do agree her 1 shot grab is VERY ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
AS a melee tank she can't really kill me. But when I am in melee with her and suddenly get grabbed with little to no warning and than am dead.
Thats some serious fing BS.

And before someone says there is a tell. No. When you are in melee with her and 2 other players and blasting away it's so chaotic that it's impossible to catch that tell. It was very sudden.

[PurpleXVI]

The only one-shot *ATTACK* I can recall is from the Nightweaver. Otherwise there are some one-shot environmentals(like accidentally dodge-rolling out of the arena) and the Cube Boss, but the Cube Boss is A) super different and B) a short enough fight that its not frustrating. What IS frustrating is just getting one-shot blasted by the Nightweaver when its a comparatively long fight.

What's worse are the random boss modifiers that can just skyrocket some boss difficulties absurdly due to how they synergize with the boss, and really just should not be in the game.

EDIT: Whats more frustrating is when attacks blow right through "downed and revivable" to "out of the game" which it feels like invalidates an entire mechanic for no good reason.

[Xeowolf]

Originally posted by PurpleXVI:

The only one-shot *ATTACK* I can recall is from the Nightweaver. Otherwise there are some one-shot environmentals(like accidentally dodge-rolling out of the arena) and the Cube Boss, but the Cube Boss is A) super different and B) a short enough fight that its not frustrating. What IS frustrating is just getting one-shot blasted by the Nightweaver when its a comparatively long fight.

What's worse are the random boss modifiers that can just skyrocket some boss difficulties absurdly due to how they synergize with the boss, and really just should not be in the game.

EDIT: Whats more frustrating is when attacks blow right through "downed and revivable" to "out of the game" which it feels like invalidates an entire mechanic for no good reason.

I know for a fact that other bosses have 1 shots.
Venom is extremely egregious. Even if the attack isn't a 1 shot it does so much damage that it might as well be. (147 DR and you still die to the hit is a 1 shot)

Hell even trash mobs on earth that put the glitch on you and shoot explody red crap basically 1 shot me with 80-147 Damage reduction. That is stupid.

Nightweaver has at least 2 grabs that can 1 shot you regardless of your tankyness.

A few other creatures on earth will 1 shot you or do so much damage it might as well be.

The final boss does so much damage per hit and its massive aoes that most think its a 1 shot. This is where extremely tanky builds can survive. But not everyone wants to run that.

Earth tree boss that has roots come out of the ground all over those can 1 shot my tank build. So for most people that might as well be a 1 shot.

[RageQT]

I think people are confusing difficult with punishing, You can for the most part ♥♥♥♥ up everything in a fight a certain number of times (depending on how much your hp allows it) except when the boss does their animation for it's one shot... then you are not allowed to fail. This is where the punishing aspect of the boss fights come into play. I genuinely think people went into this game thinking the bosses would be mild compared to dark souls/sekiro/elden ring. People are always to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ quick to blame or ♥♥♥♥ on anything as soon as they dont like or get frustrated with something

[i2um1]

Originally posted by Xeowolf:

I know for a fact that other bosses have 1 shots.

Nope, high damage is not a one shot.

Let me count bosses: Nightweaver, Corruptor, Mother Mind, Labyrinth Sentinel. And that's it. The last two seem to be something else.

You just play melee and have the issue with armor. It's totally your issue. And it looks like you don't have DPS at all.

Originally posted by Xeowolf:

Hell even trash mobs on earth that put the glitch on you and shoot explody red crap basically 1 shot me with 80-147 Damage reduction. That is stupid.

It's interesting that you didn't mention an instant kill by trash mobs that just grab you.

[Ax3 Heretic]

If you ain't got it in you just say that bro.

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Originally posted by i2um1:

Originally posted by Xeowolf:

I know for a fact that other bosses have 1 shots.

Nope, high damage is not a one shot.

Let me count bosses: Nightweaver, Corruptor, Mother Mind, Labyrinth Sentinel. And that's it. The last two seem to be something else.

You just play melee and have the issue with armor. It's totally your issue. And it looks like you don't have DPS at all.

Originally posted by Xeowolf:

Hell even trash mobs on earth that put the glitch on you and shoot explody red crap basically 1 shot me with 80-147 Damage reduction. That is stupid.

It's interesting that you didn't mention an instant kill by trash mobs that just grab you.

magister dullain has an instant death mechanic and it's just an animation, doesn't matter how much hp you have.

It depends how deep you want to go in this discusion. The custodian eye can also be considered a 1 shot boss because it can change the arena layout and the player can fall off and die no matter the hp.

Also, there are very few bosses in remnant 2, many trash or elite mobs that are called a boss so in reality if you do the math with unique bosses that have a mechanic where you can instantly die at full health(regardless if it's an animation, pitfall or huge damage combo) you will see that technically most bosses have instant kill mechanics.