Why even have Summoner and Handler?

[The Seventh Son]

This game often feels like the devs would design a boss saying to themselves "How do we counter summons?" There was a boss that would do these screen wide AoE explosions that just one shot summons, lots of flying bosses, and bosses that are too fast for the ranged summon to hit.

I just don't understand why you would create 2 classes revolved around summoning, summon mods, and give us all these items to support summoning, and then just make them obsolete in a boss fight.

FINAL BOSS SPOILERS

This all really came to a head with the final boss. My summons literally had no impact. The boss is both always flying and too fast for the ranged summons to hit. So my dog is just running around doing nothing, and my flyers are trying, but only get the occasional lucky hit cuz the boss moved into the projectile. I can't just use another summon, cuz the other two options are both melee options, which can't hit a flying boss. I'm being punished for playing a combination of classes that you created and presented to me to play as.

I just don't get the purpose this. If you don't want the summons to impact boss fights that much, why the hell even make the classes?

[Darkrayne]

You can switch out the archetypes any time you need if they aren't useful for certain bosses or areas. Just one of the three main reasons the level more archetypes.

[Sigs]

SImple.

The only balancing and thought this game received was in a boardroom. All they had to do was announce on twitter and discord that they had an 'artistic vision' and suddenly all the questionable design decisions become an impregnable fortress. How dare your experience not fall in line with their imaginary one?

[Trichouette]

Remnant (both games actually) are designed around you changing your build to defeat the enemies.
You can't expect to play something that will work perfectly in 100% of the situations.
It's like all these people on the forum crying because they want to play melee only but so many enemies are flying...

Some gameplay are better against certain bosses, and some are weaker.

[Lichrot]

Originally posted by Trichouette:

Remnant (both games actually) are designed around you changing your build to defeat the enemies.
You can't expect to play something that will work perfectly in 100% of the situations.
It's like all these people on the forum crying because they want to play melee only but so many enemies are flying...

Some gameplay are better against certain bosses, and some are weaker.

At least someone in this forum knows what they're talking about

[Trichouette]

Originally posted by Lichrot:

Originally posted by Trichouette:

Remnant (both games actually) are designed around you changing your build to defeat the enemies.
You can't expect to play something that will work perfectly in 100% of the situations.
It's like all these people on the forum crying because they want to play melee only but so many enemies are flying...

Some gameplay are better against certain bosses, and some are weaker.

At least someone in this forum knows what they're talking about

Well the fact you can change gameplay mid-run is one of the things I enjoy most about this game.
I'm just sad we don't have a loadout system :(
(and that power level scales according to your inventory instead of equipped items/archetype.....)

The game ain't perfect, none of them are, but "this archetype doesn't work against X enemy" really is failure to understand the game's design.

[Madnuss]

Originally posted by Trichouette:

Remnant (both games actually) are designed around you changing your build to defeat the enemies.
You can't expect to play something that will work perfectly in 100% of the situations.
It's like all these people on the forum crying because they want to play melee only but so many enemies are flying...

Some gameplay are better against certain bosses, and some are weaker.

If this was true, then why the f.. do classes level up so slow?.

[Nox]

Having played summoner a fair bit, I concur with what's been said here.

The build I go into for a particular boss is really situational against what that boss does. Against one boss, our summons carried the fight while we tried to avoid splash effects.

In others they were not useful so we swapped them out.

Experiment with it, have fun.

[Firellius]

Originally posted by Darkrayne:

You can switch out the archetypes any time you need if they aren't useful for certain bosses or areas. Just one of the three main reasons the level more archetypes.

Experience gain is definitely not enough to support a flip-flop playstyle.

[Trichouette]

Originally posted by Madnuss:

Originally posted by Trichouette:

Remnant (both games actually) are designed around you changing your build to defeat the enemies.
You can't expect to play something that will work perfectly in 100% of the situations.
It's like all these people on the forum crying because they want to play melee only but so many enemies are flying...

Some gameplay are better against certain bosses, and some are weaker.

If this was true, then why the f.. do classes level up so slow?.

Probably because you have 2 of them equipped, which makes them exp at 50% rate.

Also you don't need level 10 archetypes to play...

[Miro Fox]

Originally posted by The Seventh Son:

This game often feels like the devs would design a boss saying to themselves "How do we counter summons?" There was a boss that would do these screen wide AoE explosions that just one shot summons, lots of flying bosses, and bosses that are too fast for the ranged summon to hit.

I just don't understand why you would create 2 classes revolved around summoning, summon mods, and give us all these items to support summoning, and then just make them obsolete in a boss fight.

FINAL BOSS SPOILERS

This all really came to a head with the final boss. My summons literally had no impact. The boss is both always flying and too fast for the ranged summons to hit. So my dog is just running around doing nothing, and my flyers are trying, but only get the occasional lucky hit cuz the boss moved into the projectile. I can't just use another summon, cuz the other two options are both melee options, which can't hit a flying boss. I'm being punished for playing a combination of classes that you created and presented to me to play as.

I just don't get the purpose this. If you don't want the summons to impact boss fights that much, why the hell even make the classes?

as someone who crutched on Summoner & Handler. i disagree.

The fliers attack very often, and with Soul Link, they literally heal you constantly.
The dog has a Free Revive, and will spam revives on allies if you die.
The Reaver is such a powerhouse that doesn't even matter if its flying or not as its ranged attack EXPLDOES.
and the dog has a AOE 20% damage buff on a short cooldown.

[Trichouette]

Originally posted by Firellius:

Originally posted by Darkrayne:

You can switch out the archetypes any time you need if they aren't useful for certain bosses or areas. Just one of the three main reasons the level more archetypes.

Experience gain is definitely not enough to support a flip-flop playstyle.

archetypes aren't the only thing that make up your build.
Swapping relic / weapons / rings / amulet can make a huge difference.

I just beat the endboss on basic difficulty (survivor I think?) with summoner/hunter.
I was struggling until I switched relic and found something that worked nicely.

[Black Hammer]

Originally posted by Trichouette:

Remnant (both games actually) are designed around you changing your build to defeat the enemies.
You can't expect to play something that will work perfectly in 100% of the situations.
It's like all these people on the forum crying because they want to play melee only but so many enemies are flying...

Some gameplay are better against certain bosses, and some are weaker.

LMAO

No, it's designed around playing Engineer or Gunslinger and using guns to apply massive damage into weakspots.

Pets? Waste of time, aside from using dog to revive. Melee? Waste of time.

You will use gun, you will use a precision weapon with a quick reload, and you will not do anything else.

[Miro Fox]

Originally posted by Trichouette:

Originally posted by Firellius:

Experience gain is definitely not enough to support a flip-flop playstyle.

archetypes aren't the only thing that make up your build.
Swapping relic / weapons / rings / amulet can make a huge difference.

I just beat the endboss on basic difficulty (survivor I think?) with summoner/hunter.
I was struggling until I switched relic and found something that worked nicely.

no amount of build switching can make that endboss dooable for me.

My ADHD literally just gets overwhelmed and i just stall.

Sensory overload is a problem on that boss.

[Trichouette]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Originally posted by Trichouette:

Remnant (both games actually) are designed around you changing your build to defeat the enemies.
You can't expect to play something that will work perfectly in 100% of the situations.
It's like all these people on the forum crying because they want to play melee only but so many enemies are flying...

Some gameplay are better against certain bosses, and some are weaker.

LMAO

No, it's designed around playing Engineer or Gunslinger and using guns to apply massive damage into weakspots.

Pets? Waste of time, aside from using dog to revive. Melee? Waste of time.

You will use gun, you will use a precision weapon with a quick reload, and you will not do anything else.

Whatever float your boats my dude.
You're free to play the game how you wish to.

Originally posted by Miro Fox:

Originally posted by Trichouette:

archetypes aren't the only thing that make up your build.
Swapping relic / weapons / rings / amulet can make a huge difference.

I just beat the endboss on basic difficulty (survivor I think?) with summoner/hunter.
I was struggling until I switched relic and found something that worked nicely.

no amount of build switching can make that endboss dooable for me.

My ADHD literally just gets overwhelmed and i just stall.

Sensory overload is a problem on that boss.

I have to admit, everything is blurry during that fight.
I enjoyed it but damn, everything is red and fast.
Thankfuly you have some cue sound that tell you when to dodge.
But it's complicated.

One thing you can do is try to over-level it, but that will only help you a limited amount of times...

[parent child bowl]

Originally posted by Miro Fox:

no amount of build switching can make that endboss dooable for me.

My ADHD literally just gets overwhelmed and i just stall.

Sensory overload is a problem on that boss.

Try to ignore everything outside of his head and rely on your ears instead. It helped me a lot.