I can't stress enough how much I hate the Powerlevel in this game.

[Billy Blaze]

Since your archetype level goes always up, the game gets harder.
At one point, you have to upgrade your weapons... and when you do it, the game gets harder.

It got to a point where everything suddenly did crazy amounts of damage but you can't upgrade your armor.
You can change it, but everything above 25 weight makes the penalty a real problem.
But everything about that, I can deal with... I'm not the worst player, and I master most situations rather easy.

What I can't deal with, is that the whole system discurages trying out different weapons.
Switching from 2 level 10 archetypes to 2 level 0 was brutal enough at first, cause of the damage drop.
But if you want to use a new weapon, you have to at least get it up to 75% power (weaponlevel 15 for location level 20).

And that means, you have to first upgrade every weapon you wanna try out.
The game gives me a bow, I wanna use it, upgrade it to 19 and it's fun... but the forced mod is trash.
Found another bow... time to upgrade this one again...
For every... single... weapon...

What's the best and easiest way to play the game?
Only use 3 weapons (P, S, M), upgrade them to 10 (or 5 for special weapons with unique mods) and only use a single archetype and NEVER change it.
Cause when you level it to 10 and change it, leveling another archetype counts as second highest... and adds to the powerlevel.
And when you do it that way, your powerlevel stays at 10 and the whole equipment is much easier and less costly to manage.

Good god.
I loved the previous game... and I really love this game, these are some of my favourite games of all time.
But this system is just so uber terrible,

EDIT: Playing on PS5.

[[HdF] Almut Grete]

The whole weapon upodates raise power level even when you not use the guns is quiet stupid.
But ... we knew that from game 1.
There is no reason to upgrade guns. Enemys scale with you anyway.

It has always been a trap for ppl that mass update one gun and do not know the system.

Try to keep the guns you use or plan to use on one level. Class levels and such will max you out at 9 or 10 power level (from 20).
Playing more and more you will eventually get +1 upgrades because you loot weapons multiple times, just get the others on par and it is all fine.

[Billy Blaze]

Originally posted by HdF Almut Grete:

The whole weapon upodates raise power level even when you not use the guns is quiet stupid.
But ... we knew that from game 1.
There is no reason to upgrade guns. Enemys scale with you anyway.

It has always been a trap for ppl that mass update one gun and do not know the system.

Try to keep the guns you use or plan to use on one level. Class levels and such will max you out at 9 or 10 power level (from 20).
Playing more and more you will eventually get +1 upgrades because you loot weapons multiple times, just get the others on par and it is all fine.

Nope, enemies only scale when you are above the recommended story level.
I've started a new char and with my Powerlevel 1, the game generated locations level 2, 3, 4... and so on, so at one point, you have to upgrade.

The trap in this game is equipping 2 archetypes at the same time.
On my first char, I've got my second archetype around Powerlevel 7 or so... and equppied it.
Of course, since I level 2 types at the same time, the powerlevel increases at a faster pace and the difficulty can be very overwhelming very fast.

[ElectricAxel]

Originally posted by Billy Blaze:

Originally posted by HdF Almut Grete:

The whole weapon upodates raise power level even when you not use the guns is quiet stupid.
But ... we knew that from game 1.
There is no reason to upgrade guns. Enemys scale with you anyway.

It has always been a trap for ppl that mass update one gun and do not know the system.

Try to keep the guns you use or plan to use on one level. Class levels and such will max you out at 9 or 10 power level (from 20).
Playing more and more you will eventually get +1 upgrades because you loot weapons multiple times, just get the others on par and it is all fine.

Nope, enemies only scale when you are above the recommended story level.
I've started a new char and with my Powerlevel 1, the game generated locations level 2, 3, 4... and so on, so at one point, you have to upgrade.

The trap in this game is equipping 2 archetypes at the same time.
On my first char, I've got my second archetype around Powerlevel 7 or so... and equppied it.
Of course, since I level 2 types at the same time, the powerlevel increases at a faster pace and the difficulty can be very overwhelming very fast.

When you have 2 archetypes that are not max level, exp is shared equally (50% each), but yeah, the lower level one requires less exp so you might get total levels faster (not individual levels though, depending on how far apart they are. It takes 5k exp from 0 to 1 but 22k exp from 9 to 10). However you're right that if you never ever level up a second archetype, your archetype level used for scaling will stay stuck at 10.

[Billy Blaze]

Originally posted by ElectricAxel:

Originally posted by Billy Blaze:

Nope, enemies only scale when you are above the recommended story level.
I've started a new char and with my Powerlevel 1, the game generated locations level 2, 3, 4... and so on, so at one point, you have to upgrade.

The trap in this game is equipping 2 archetypes at the same time.
On my first char, I've got my second archetype around Powerlevel 7 or so... and equppied it.
Of course, since I level 2 types at the same time, the powerlevel increases at a faster pace and the difficulty can be very overwhelming very fast.

When you have 2 archetypes that are not max level, exp is shared equally (50% each), but yeah, the lower level one requires less exp so you might get total levels faster (not individual levels though, depending on how far apart they are. It takes 5k exp from 0 to 1 but 22k exp from 9 to 10). However you're right that if you never ever level up a second archetype, your archetype level used for scaling will stay stuck at 10.

Ah, didn't know that!
That explains why it took ages to go from level 0 to level 1 after equipping 2 new types.
Cause I could have sworn that I leveled faster at the begiining of the game with just one archetype.

[A Helpless Baby]

honestly, same. I don't entirely understand the point even having weapon upgrades if it just makes enemies harder to match. If you feel no stronger at the end of the game then the beginning then what's the point of an upgrade system? number go bigger but what's that mean if functionally enemies take more hits anyway?

[Snowfunk]

Yup, it's a terrible system.

[Billy Blaze]

Originally posted by A Helpless Baby:

honestly, same. I don't entirely understand the point even having weapon upgrades if it just makes enemies harder to match. If you feel no stronger at the end of the game then the beginning then what's the point of an upgrade system? number go bigger but what's that mean if functionally enemies take more hits anyway?

Yeah, the whole upgrade system eats itself and is terrible implemented.

And since people mention "Dark Souls" and so on... yeah, they are somewhat right, you also can't try out everything without excessive grinding so you stick with a few weapons (or just one).
But in these game, upgrading your weapons is an event itself, when you finally find this one material you need, and later on, you are like "There is the stronger variant of this material!".

"Remnant" doesn't provide this feeling, and you can basically overlevel your main weapons very early on, which makes the game harder, which spawns better materials automatically.
There was never ever an exciting moment where I was excited to upgrade my weapons.

Except in the first game when playing it for the very first time.
I was like "Whoa, I make these weapons so strong! I become uber OP early on!", till I read about this nonsensical system and I instantly lost all will to play the game at first.

It's grinding just for the sake of grinding.
The benefits aren't there, but the disadvantages.

[カミナ]

Originally posted by Billy Blaze:

Originally posted by A Helpless Baby:

honestly, same. I don't entirely understand the point even having weapon upgrades if it just makes enemies harder to match. If you feel no stronger at the end of the game then the beginning then what's the point of an upgrade system? number go bigger but what's that mean if functionally enemies take more hits anyway?

Yeah, the whole upgrade system eats itself and is terrible implemented.

And since people mention "Dark Souls" and so on... yeah, they are somewhat right, you also can't try out everything without excessive grinding so you stick with a few weapons (or just one).
But in these game, upgrading your weapons is an event itself, when you finally find this one material you need, and later on, you are like "There is the stronger variant of this material!".

"Remnant" doesn't provide this feeling, and you can basically overlevel your main weapons very early on, which makes the game harder, which spawns better materials automatically.
There was never ever an exciting moment where I was excited to upgrade my weapons.

Except in the first game when playing it for the very first time.
I was like "Whoa, I make these weapons so strong! I become uber OP early on!", till I read about this nonsensical system and I instantly lost all will to play the game at first.

It's grinding just for the sake of grinding.
The benefits aren't there, but the disadvantages.

And in dark souls if you have a weapon thats say, midway upgraded, you can take it to go back to earlier zones and farm for earlier material very easily since nothing scales.

[ElectricAxel]

Originally posted by コツメカワウソ:

Originally posted by Billy Blaze:

Yeah, the whole upgrade system eats itself and is terrible implemented.

And since people mention "Dark Souls" and so on... yeah, they are somewhat right, you also can't try out everything without excessive grinding so you stick with a few weapons (or just one).
But in these game, upgrading your weapons is an event itself, when you finally find this one material you need, and later on, you are like "There is the stronger variant of this material!".

"Remnant" doesn't provide this feeling, and you can basically overlevel your main weapons very early on, which makes the game harder, which spawns better materials automatically.
There was never ever an exciting moment where I was excited to upgrade my weapons.

Except in the first game when playing it for the very first time.
I was like "Whoa, I make these weapons so strong! I become uber OP early on!", till I read about this nonsensical system and I instantly lost all will to play the game at first.

It's grinding just for the sake of grinding.
The benefits aren't there, but the disadvantages.

And in dark souls if you have a weapon thats say, midway upgraded, you can take it to go back to earlier zones and farm for earlier material very easily since nothing scales.

As long as you don't reroll, the areas in remnant stay at the level they were when they got created. So you can go back to kill enemies in easier areas. (I'm not sure if crates respawn or not)

[カミナ]

Originally posted by ElectricAxel:

Originally posted by コツメカワウソ:

And in dark souls if you have a weapon thats say, midway upgraded, you can take it to go back to earlier zones and farm for earlier material very easily since nothing scales.

As long as you don't reroll, the areas in remnant stay at the level they were when they got created. So you can go back to kill enemies in easier areas. (I'm not sure if crates respawn or not)

Really? It sure didn't seem like that when I went back to losomn ( my first area) before I did final boss.

[saice]

So scaling in R2 is completely tied to your weapons.

The average of the highest score in slot with weapons that only go to +10 counting double.

You can tell your maps scale in the upper right of the mini map. And it is locked in when that world is created based on the gear you had at the time.

I want to say there might be a minimum for some worlds and there is a +1 that gets tagged onto the total once you got past opening map of a world.

Because of this. It is actually better if you think you will have issues to slow your weapon upgrades. Until you feel things are getting to easy.

Also the scaling is based on the Host. so if you join a friend who has maxed out their gear and your still rocking +2 weapons you will have a bad time.

As far as defense goes its not so bad. Remember to upgrade your relic so you have more healing and check the vendors there is a few consumables that heal or buff health/armor/regen.

Lastly if you still having issues reroll one of the tanker archetypes. Medic, Handler, or Challenger all are solid choices for sevorviablity

[Billy Blaze]

Originally posted by saice:

So scaling in R2 is completely tied to your weapons

And your archetype level.
In fact, your 2 highest levels, so it can go up to 20 if you ever use a secondary archetype or just switch your main one and level a brand new.

[^7ja^1co]

I noticed something is wrong also, I am PL 20, and now I do less dmg, everything is tougher, all weapons are weaker...makes no sense. Unless devs assumed that at that point you will have an awesome build so the point will be mute, but its not because some people just want to run from gun to gun, class to class etc.

World strength needs to be tied to currently EQUIPPED weapons or give us unlimited traits or armour upgrades ffs

[カミナ]

Originally posted by ^7ja^1co:

I noticed something is wrong also, I am PL 20, and now I do less dmg, everything is tougher, all weapons are weaker...makes no sense. Unless devs assumed that at that point you will have an awesome build so the point will be mute, but its not because some people just want to run from gun to gun, class to class etc.

World strength needs to be tied to currently EQUIPPED weapons or give us unlimited traits or armour upgrades ffs

or just remove scaling. esp for singleplayer. But seems like they designed the whole game around it ;/

[Xan84]

Good or bad I see countless people who have no problem dealing with it. If you can't, it seems like a you problem. I had no problem finishing the game, getting all points to 60, get all classes, A ton of guns and armor.
Currently with my build, the only way I can die is if I do something incredibly stupid like rolling of an edge.

The only thing that really needs changing is the damn blood moon mechanics.