Melee Is Completely Dead

[Caim]

Majority of enemies fly, even the shockwave ability challenger has is generally useless.

Even if you use bulwark to tank through the stagger spam that is this game, you'll die rather quickly even with max health traits, heavy armor, rings to boot, and damage reduction relics.

Small enemies swarm and you'll be stagger spammed.

Medium / Elite enemies will and can TWO SHOT YOU [clips.twitch.tv], or put you in a QTE, so unless they're just not targeting you cause they're attacking someone else in coop, or you didn't CC them prior, good luck with that.

Bosses... Just, no. Same thing as Medium / Elite enemies, but can be even worse, some bosses you can't even hit because they aren't grounded.

The time melee shines is very rare, generally requiring a string of lucky circumstances.

Only alternative is "ranged" melee weapons that have charged heavy attacks such as the huntress spear. But then it's no longer a melee class, just ranged with extra steps. Like some Terraria level ♥♥♥♥.

Mind you this is on veteran or higher difficulty, don't even bother commenting of on the easiest difficulty, as it's not even possible to die.

Edit - There are ways to break enemy pathing, and cornering tends to be really OP too. But that's in some regards cheesing, and if that's the way you have to play it's kind of corny. I lost a clip, but with the huntress, you can just slowly walk around her as you melee and she's hard stuck, unable to fight back.

Also there's these, clips to prove stuff mentioned within the posts

Cheesing a boss in a corner [clips.twitch.tv]

Oh and here's a clip of the enemies falling on air as I mentioned, plus them a-posing. [clips.twitch.tv]

[DACNINJA]

I checked your clip, yes it feels like there are a lot less % of bosses that are melee VIABLE but its because theyre oftentimes unreachable or too aggressive too fast or they keep their distance. A twitch clip will do you nothing you have to show your gear + power level. It could be that youre underleveled or using the wrong mutators/gear.

Also its always been the case to utilize weapon mods as part of the build especially when speedrunning. In game 1 proccing frozen + corrode is the way, thats like 30-50% damage increase from the debuffs alone.

[Erdrick]

Originally posted by Caim:

Originally posted by Erdrick:

By the way, there is a special melee attack on SOME melee weapons. You stand still and tap Dodge (on spot, stood still) and charge a heavy attack. I hit 4000 dmg currently on the training dummy in town with the special dash heavy

Yeah It was in the 1st game too, though it's rarely useful.

With the invader build, 2nd skill, you can teleport behind enemies and deal 300% more dmg with ranged or melee. (not unlocked the 2nd skill yet) but 4000 x 300% dmg??

[Caim]

Originally posted by DACNINJA:

I checked your clip, yes it feels like there are a lot less % of bosses that are melee VIABLE but its because theyre oftentimes unreachable or too aggressive too fast or they keep their distance. A twitch clip will do you nothing you have to show your gear + power level. It could be that youre underleveled or using the wrong mutators/gear.

Also its always been the case to utilize weapon mods as part of the build especially when speedrunning. In game 1 proccing frozen + corrode is the way, thats like 30-50% damage increase from the debuffs alone.

No such thing as underleveled as there's now scaling so that argument doesn't hold.

Also you can see in the clip is a fairly fresh character, nearly maxed health, with some melee/tank based rings, and only the healing mod. In the starter heavy armor, being 2 shot.

Also trying to tell me how the game works is comical, I got almost 130 hours in the 1st game champ, 100% it twice.

[Phrieksho]

There were bosses you couldn't melee at all in 1, as well (the final boss and Ixillis come to mind). Player stagger was definitely less of a thing, but in general, melee is absolutely improved here. Going with a shield heart, generator ring, shield breaker mutator, and the ring that builds shield on stamina usage (blanking on the name) can definitely help a lot.

Invader or Engineer class could also help a lot (the trait on Engineer is absolutely a must have for pure melee, imo).

In general, just grind relic shards and mutator upgrades, and maybe the Krell.Axe or Huntress spear. Dream Catcher's slow is also very useful, even if the weapon itself is weaker than others.

I don't generally pure melee but this game has more than enough build variety to experiment with.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by Dio Aloke:

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

https://imgur.com/G64ml2r

This is a clip from my nightmare solo challenger, the melee weapon is also underlevelled compared to the rest of my kit.

How are you able to roll with Leto's Armor? Using any rings/amulets that decrease encumbrance? All I got was a flop

I'm using letos armour except for the legs which just gives me under ultra flop encumberance but still gets me close to 50% DR.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by Caim:

Originally posted by DACNINJA:

I checked your clip, yes it feels like there are a lot less % of bosses that are melee VIABLE but its because theyre oftentimes unreachable or too aggressive too fast or they keep their distance. A twitch clip will do you nothing you have to show your gear + power level. It could be that youre underleveled or using the wrong mutators/gear.

Also its always been the case to utilize weapon mods as part of the build especially when speedrunning. In game 1 proccing frozen + corrode is the way, thats like 30-50% damage increase from the debuffs alone.

No such thing as underleveled as there's now scaling so that argument doesn't hold.

Also you can see in the clip is a fairly fresh character, nearly maxed health, with some melee/tank based rings, and only the healing mod. In the starter heavy armor, being 2 shot.

Also trying to tell me how the game works is comical, I got almost 130 hours in the 1st game champ, 100% it twice.

When you create a world it creates it based on the power level of your character. if you make a world, and go into it with one piece of equipment being fresh with everything else max upgraded, it will be 'underlevelled' and will perform badly. similarly, if you upgrade your gear during a run through a world, it will perform better as the enemies won't scale till you go to a new world.

[^DreeMax^]

Originally posted by ^DreeMax^:

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

The fresh apocalypse campaign video you posted involves using guns against most of the bosses, this was not a melee only run.

The boss fights you post I will admit do definitely show that late game you can build ridiculous melee builds, but my complaint is more so with the general use of melee throughout the entirety of the game, and if anything I think avoiding situations where you can make builds where you just repeat the same attack completely tanking the boss would be ideal. That isn't really interesting melee gameplay at all.

Remnant 1 was just a complete flop between melee being useless/melee being cheese, Remnant 2 feels like its a proper tool in your arsenal.

I didn't use guns once. I used mods installed to guns. No bullets used to kill ANY enemy. Where did you see me using guns?

Question remains unanswered. And probably will.

[DACNINJA]

Originally posted by Caim:

Originally posted by DACNINJA:

I checked your clip, yes it feels like there are a lot less % of bosses that are melee VIABLE but its because theyre oftentimes unreachable or too aggressive too fast or they keep their distance. A twitch clip will do you nothing you have to show your gear + power level. It could be that youre underleveled or using the wrong mutators/gear.

Also its always been the case to utilize weapon mods as part of the build especially when speedrunning. In game 1 proccing frozen + corrode is the way, thats like 30-50% damage increase from the debuffs alone.

No such thing as underleveled as there's now scaling so that argument doesn't hold.

Also you can see in the clip is a fairly fresh character, nearly maxed health, with some melee/tank based rings, and only the healing mod. In the starter heavy armor, being 2 shot.

Also trying to tell me how the game works is comical, I got almost 130 hours in the 1st game champ, 100% it twice.

LMAO this guy I completed the first game on Apoc and had almost all the items and maxed traits. The issue here is youre doing too little damage and I had the same issue with RANGED weapons. MAYBE different causes but I suspect the scrap economy leads to being underleveled vs the first game. Its easy to reach +5 on gear before Rhom but here I cant barely keep my gear in line with my PL


Yes this game has its problems, I get 2 shot in SURVIVAL on heavy armor + armor potion but its ingenious to say that youre not doing damage if youre not showing us your damage multipliers. I can reach ~2x paper damage on some buffs alone (fire ring + maxed medic perk + hotshot + amulet) that fact that you dont realize this means that you dont understand how stacking damage works.

I still hit like a noodle vs game 1 with stacked damage but nowhere near that pathetic damage in the video so there must be something wrong.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by ^DreeMax^:

Originally posted by ^DreeMax^:

I didn't use guns once. I used mods installed to guns. No bullets used to kill ANY enemy. Where did you see me using guns?

Question remains unanswered. And probably will.

Didn't notice this comment amongst all the other comments, but Im just assuming that he linked the wrong playlist because its blatantly not a melee only run, and Im going to skim through a bunch of the early game vids and just link a part with shooting without it being a weapon mod, and even then, whats the point of a melee only run if you use weapon mods like the extra fire damage etc, at that point you are just shooting anyway:

https://youtu.be/pgEOf8EDRpk?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=1863
https://youtu.be/BaEKh9r7Srg?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=4724
https://youtu.be/do4ppecHSd0?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=3695
https://youtu.be/g8n3ItkYfvc?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=770
https://youtu.be/ke2S27fgcZM?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=1868
https://youtu.be/73TpaWXO6Yw?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=912
https://youtu.be/LR1fhRr_6B0?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=4435
https://youtu.be/ccaC2KnE0qA?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=2024
https://youtu.be/jQGhJigkS2A?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7QQ5QsRSgHbMyyxwIby1fOg&t=84

This isn't even a melee focussed playthrough lol.

[^DreeMax^]

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

Originally posted by ^DreeMax^:

Question remains unanswered. And probably will.

Didn't notice this comment amongst all the other comments, but Im just assuming that he linked the wrong playlist because its blatantly not a melee only run, and Im going to skim through a bunch of the early game vids and just link a part with shooting without it being a weapon mod, and even then, whats the point of a melee only run if you use weapon mods like the extra fire damage etc, at that point you are just shooting anyway:

This isn't even a melee focussed playthrough lol.

Whoops, my bad!
Correct link:
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGAQT2xWlq7TmcPNCtRTxNIeWeLVuGaIz

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WYIp4zI3xW8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wlb1NBcSMzc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r822E65tVWw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Z8cOywJRg
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aeijmB4axmw
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gCD92lbxWAI
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb0Lfc-GJjE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kto-4Y8Hd7M

[Caim]

Originally posted by DACNINJA:

Originally posted by Caim:

No such thing as underleveled as there's now scaling so that argument doesn't hold.

Also you can see in the clip is a fairly fresh character, nearly maxed health, with some melee/tank based rings, and only the healing mod. In the starter heavy armor, being 2 shot.

Also trying to tell me how the game works is comical, I got almost 130 hours in the 1st game champ, 100% it twice.

LMAO this guy I completed the first game on Apoc and had almost all the items and maxed traits. The issue here is youre doing too little damage and I had the same issue with RANGED weapons. MAYBE different causes but I suspect the scrap economy leads to being underleveled vs the first game. Its easy to reach +5 on gear before Rhom but here I cant barely keep my gear in line with my PL


Yes this game has its problems, I get 2 shot in SURVIVAL on heavy armor + armor potion but its ingenious to say that youre not doing damage if youre not showing us your damage multipliers. I can reach ~2x paper damage on some buffs alone (fire ring + maxed medic perk + hotshot + amulet) that fact that you dont realize this means that you dont understand how stacking damage works.

I still hit like a noodle vs game 1 with stacked damage but nowhere near that pathetic damage in the video so there must be something wrong.

Maxed traits, too all items too, survival 10 matches in a row, all that ♥♥♥♥.

The problem isn't my lack of damage, it's my lack of damage resistance. Scaling is ♥♥♥♥♥♥. And you have a whopping 0 dps if the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fly, so my argument still stands.

[Arngrim]

Melee is really good against some bosses, but yeah, some of them are just impossible and the flying enemies are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
I´m doing a melee run now and my engineer turret really has to put in work.

[Pvt. Gomer Pyle]

Okay good, I'm not alone... I create a tank (my usual role in RPGs) and the VERY FIRST CAMPAIGN it gives me is the one in N'Erud, with the battle drones. Even on normal just try getting past 5 minutes as a level 1, running out of handgun ammo after 4 robots, unable to reload because you're constantly dodging, ultimate not doing a thing, and the risk/reward of the shotgun not paying off. I almost returned the game until I re-rolled the campaign and it felt like I changed the difficulty completely.

*Edit* On the flip-side, when I started fighting normal human/humanoid enemies, my greatsword annihilated.

[DACNINJA]

Originally posted by Caim:

Originally posted by DACNINJA:

LMAO this guy I completed the first game on Apoc and had almost all the items and maxed traits. The issue here is youre doing too little damage and I had the same issue with RANGED weapons. MAYBE different causes but I suspect the scrap economy leads to being underleveled vs the first game. Its easy to reach +5 on gear before Rhom but here I cant barely keep my gear in line with my PL


Yes this game has its problems, I get 2 shot in SURVIVAL on heavy armor + armor potion but its ingenious to say that youre not doing damage if youre not showing us your damage multipliers. I can reach ~2x paper damage on some buffs alone (fire ring + maxed medic perk + hotshot + amulet) that fact that you dont realize this means that you dont understand how stacking damage works.

I still hit like a noodle vs game 1 with stacked damage but nowhere near that pathetic damage in the video so there must be something wrong.

Maxed traits, too all items too, survival 10 matches in a row, all that ♥♥♥♥.

The problem isn't my lack of damage, it's my lack of damage resistance. Scaling is ♥♥♥♥♥♥. And you have a whopping 0 dps if the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ fly, so my argument still stands.

Yes bosses in this game does more damage (and tankier) even at lower difficulties vs the first game. I remember in my fresh (starting from 0 trait) easy to nightmare campaign one shots very very rarely happen and its because im low. Wait till you see the last boss or the bosses spamming OHKO attacks.

But Im still waiting before complaining. Ive yet to max the mutators and my gear. COULD be that im underleveled or I dont have the right items. If its not then the devs intentionally made this a 'souls like' and threw stat building under the bus.

[Xankrieg]

The only melee weapon ive used since getting it is the Huntress spear. since the charge attack allows you to throw it. dont think i would use any other melee weapon because of flying enemies.