Melee Is Completely Dead

[Caim]

Majority of enemies fly, even the shockwave ability challenger has is generally useless.

Even if you use bulwark to tank through the stagger spam that is this game, you'll die rather quickly even with max health traits, heavy armor, rings to boot, and damage reduction relics.

Small enemies swarm and you'll be stagger spammed.

Medium / Elite enemies will and can TWO SHOT YOU [clips.twitch.tv], or put you in a QTE, so unless they're just not targeting you cause they're attacking someone else in coop, or you didn't CC them prior, good luck with that.

Bosses... Just, no. Same thing as Medium / Elite enemies, but can be even worse, some bosses you can't even hit because they aren't grounded.

The time melee shines is very rare, generally requiring a string of lucky circumstances.

Only alternative is "ranged" melee weapons that have charged heavy attacks such as the huntress spear. But then it's no longer a melee class, just ranged with extra steps. Like some Terraria level ♥♥♥♥.

Mind you this is on veteran or higher difficulty, don't even bother commenting of on the easiest difficulty, as it's not even possible to die.

Edit - There are ways to break enemy pathing, and cornering tends to be really OP too. But that's in some regards cheesing, and if that's the way you have to play it's kind of corny. I lost a clip, but with the huntress, you can just slowly walk around her as you melee and she's hard stuck, unable to fight back.

Also there's these, clips to prove stuff mentioned within the posts

Cheesing a boss in a corner [clips.twitch.tv]

Oh and here's a clip of the enemies falling on air as I mentioned, plus them a-posing. [clips.twitch.tv]

[Miro Fox]

"But we made melee viable and strong!"

> proceeds to make every enemy flying, or every boss insta kill at point blank, or puts the boss in a pit

Thanks~ Melee is fixed!

[Caim]

Originally posted by Miro Fox:

"But we made melee viable and strong!"

> proceeds to make every enemy flying, or every boss insta kill at point blank, or puts the boss in a pit

Thanks~ Melee is fixed!

Eeeyup.

[Forge Master]

Melee in this is definitely a last resort. I mainly focus on leveling up the primary and 2nd ary.. By the way, the Grenade Launcher absolutely slaps.

[Sigs]

What it looks like they meant when they said they 'made melee viable' is that they removed weakspots or put a ridiculous stagger wall (the fat blobs and very few other enemies lose armor when you 'stagger' the armor) over weakspots.

So you're very lightly incentivized to use sources of stagger, which they nerfed on all but like 2 guns to shift to melee weapons. And only like 2 melee weapons are good at stagger.

So the guy that did all the good design work left the company, and then they just took all his toys and scattered them around the room and called it art, seems like.

*edit also lol the PLAYER stagger. There is only a single source of stagger protection on some amulet or some nonsense. They removed the most important defense from heavy armor, the stagger level lol

[JohnTravoltage]

I feel like im playing a different game. Im playing challenger solo on nightmare, fresh character, and have pretty much been melee'ing all the basic enemies and its insane. The starter sword one hits most enemies, and even though there are plenty of flying enemies, many of them still fly low enough to melee. At the same time, this is still a shooter. The idea of a melee only build is rather boring, but you can definitely work it in to have very niche firearms, with main enemy clear being melee.

There are a handful of bosses where you can actually build up enough damage reduction and actually tank while melee'ing, however I think one of the biggest problems is actually the elemental resistance so many bosses seem to have, which indirectly nerfs many of the more interesting melee weapons...

Melee is far far better than in remnant 1, and you can actually make it a staple of your build now, rather than forcing it in niche situations. I think its ridiculous to want a completely melee build.

The idea that medium/heavy elite enemies 2 shot you is absolutely ridiculous, you can easily tank them, even without a challenger, but with challenger you can make their hits basically irrelevant, only doing about 5% unrecoverable damage:

https://imgur.com/G64ml2r

This is a clip from my nightmare solo challenger, the melee weapon is also underlevelled compared to the rest of my kit.

Idk why people say that you can't build tanky in this game, as this isn't even a pure damage reduction build yet an attack that apparently 2 shots does ~10% of my max health.

[Caim]

Originally posted by Sigs:

What it looks like they meant when they said they 'made melee viable' is that they removed weakspots or put a ridiculous stagger wall (the fat blobs and very few other enemies lose armor when you 'stagger' the armor) over weakspots.

So you're very lightly incentivized to use sources of stagger, which they nerfed on all but like 2 guns to shift to melee weapons. And only like 2 melee weapons are good at stagger.

So the guy that did all the good design work left the company, and then they just took all his toys and scattered them around the room and called it art, seems like.

Yeah and the stagger has a very clear cooldown, and it's ONLY used on Medium / Elite enemies, because bosses are immune, and small enemies die before you follow up on the stagger.

[Caim]

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

I feel like im playing a different game. Im playing challenger solo on nightmare, fresh character, and have pretty much been melee'ing all the basic enemies and its insane. The starter sword one hits most enemies, and even though there are plenty of flying enemies, many of them still fly low enough to melee. At the same time, this is still a shooter. The idea of a melee only build is rather boring, but you can definitely work it in to have very niche firearms, with main enemy clear being melee.

There are a handful of bosses where you can actually build up enough damage reduction and actually tank while melee'ing, however I think one of the biggest problems is actually the elemental resistance so many bosses seem to have, which indirectly nerfs many of the more interesting melee weapons...

Melee is far far better than in remnant 1, and you can actually make it a staple of your build now, rather than forcing it in niche situations. I think its ridiculous to want a completely melee build.

The idea that medium/heavy elite enemies 2 shot you is absolutely ridiculous, you can easily tank them, even without a challenger, but with challenger you can make their hits basically irrelevant, only doing about 5% unrecoverable damage:

https://imgur.com/G64ml2r

This is a clip from my nightmare solo challenger, the melee weapon is also underlevelled compared to the rest of my kit.

Idk why people say that you can't build tanky in this game, as this isn't even a pure damage reduction build yet an attack that apparently 2 shots does ~10% of my max health.

Yes but you're likely BIS, or close to it, I'm building up to it as I can only play a little a day, as I don't want to out-pace my friends.

Also nightmare normals aren't a flex, maybe Medium / Elite, or Bosses, but anyone can "cheese" those after memorizing attack patterns and the like.

But in a normal non-sweaty play through, it's just not a thing.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by Caim:

Yes but you're likely BIS, or close to it, I'm building up to it as I can only play a little a day, as I don't want to out-pace my friends.

Also nightmare normals aren't a flex, maybe Medium / Elite, or Bosses, but anyone can "cheese" those after memorizing attack patterns and the like.

But in a normal non-sweaty play through, it's just not a thing.

NGl, I have no clue what BIS is, but my video contained me fighting a medium elite, with it only doing ~10% damage.

I posted that to display that medium elites don't 2 shot you as implied before, even on the hardest difficulty you can initially play the game on. Not only that, but my underlevelled melee weapon actually kills that enemy relatively fast, probably just as fast as my actual guns.

I didn't even play sweaty in my clip, I literally ate a hit because im not that good at reading that enemy.

All i did was use a challenger ability/perk, and wear heavy armour, and the enemy did negligible damage to me, an enemy that apparently 2 shots people.

[Sigs]

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

I feel like im playing a different game. Im playing challenger solo on nightmare, fresh character, and have pretty much been melee'ing all the basic enemies and its insane. The starter sword one hits most enemies, and even though there are plenty of flying enemies, many of them still fly low enough to melee. At the same time, this is still a shooter. The idea of a melee only build is rather boring, but you can definitely work it in to have very niche firearms, with main enemy clear being melee.

There are a handful of bosses where you can actually build up enough damage reduction and actually tank while melee'ing, however I think one of the biggest problems is actually the elemental resistance so many bosses seem to have, which indirectly nerfs many of the more interesting melee weapons...

Melee is far far better than in remnant 1, and you can actually make it a staple of your build now, rather than forcing it in niche situations. I think its ridiculous to want a completely melee build.

The idea that medium/heavy elite enemies 2 shot you is absolutely ridiculous, you can easily tank them, even without a challenger, but with challenger you can make their hits basically irrelevant, only doing about 5% unrecoverable damage:

https://imgur.com/G64ml2r

This is a clip from my nightmare solo challenger, the melee weapon is also underlevelled compared to the rest of my kit.

Idk why people say that you can't build tanky in this game, as this isn't even a pure damage reduction build yet an attack that apparently 2 shots does ~10% of my max health.

Melee was more viable in 1 than this. You could viably do the entire game melee. That is not the case here, so it's defacto, objectively in a worse spot without going into details. (though it is questionable if melee only in 1 is fun. It's not really fun imo lol, but the bleed setups are sick in the first game)

Also I'm playing through on apocalypse ultra+69 and only using my big toe. Except when the game needs me to do anything except use my big toe. That's the core of your argument, and it's a strange tack to take.

As for your personal experience in general, if your gear isn't upgraded your enemies are weaker. It's another weird design decision that ends up boomeranging extremely wildly and making enemies much harder to deal with at midgame+, as you do not scale as well as they do. There's also a lot of variability in bosses that people aren't paying attention to- just telling people to 'git gud' which is kind of what you're doing without *quite* doing it. Vicious and iirc Vindictive bosses have drastically increased damage on top of the stat bloat from difficulty levels- and their strikes OHKO. Nuance, not generalities, friend.

[JohnTravoltage]

Okay I just realised you meant best in slot. Lmfao. I'm a level 8 challenger. +5 shotgun, +2 gas hammer, +6 revolver. I have only one damage reduction ring on, which was not relevant as it only gives +3 damage reduction per missing 10% health so it didn't do anything for that hit.

I'm only on the second world in this playthrough. I'm absolutely nowhere near best in slot.

Because of my other gear being a lot higher, it means that my hammer is relatively weaker/underlevelled compared to the area, yet it still did great.

[Dreams of Fury]

Don't be melee.....you HAVE GUNS TOO be CQC instead, flyers die to shotguns just as easy as anything else, and the bosses in the pits are shredded, slap everything else with a stick to conserve ammo when you gotta shoot.....there are VERY few ways to play this game wrong so far that I have discovered.....even in FTA but melee only is one.

[JohnTravoltage]

Originally posted by Sigs:

Melee was more viable in 1 than this. You could viably do the entire game melee. That is not the case here, so it's defacto, objectively in a worse spot without going into details.

There were literally flying bosses in remnant 1 that you could literally not melee, just the same as this. The idea that you could purely melee build in remnant 1 is ridiculous.

Also the idea that I was using nightmare is a brag doesn't change anything. I posted a video of me failing to dodge an attack, but because im playing one character, using an ability, and have a weak melee weapon I can kill the enemy easily with melee. My skill had nothing to do with that, if anything it was a display of a lack of skill.

Literally all I did was dodge one attack, use a relic, and just do a basic melee combo.

[Caim]

s people. [/quote]

Originally posted by JohnTravoltage:

Originally posted by Caim:

Yes but you're likely BIS, or close to it, I'm building up to it as I can only play a little a day, as I don't want to out-pace my friends.

Also nightmare normals aren't a flex, maybe Medium / Elite, or Bosses, but anyone can "cheese" those after memorizing attack patterns and the like.

But in a normal non-sweaty play through, it's just not a thing.

NGl, I have no clue what BIS is, but my video contained me fighting a medium elite, with it only doing ~10% damage.

I posted that to display that medium elites don't 2 shot you as implied before, even on the hardest difficulty you can initially play the game on. Not only that, but my underlevelled melee weapon actually kills that enemy relatively fast, probably just as fast as my actual guns.

I didn't even play sweaty in my clip, I literally ate a hit because im not that good at reading that enemy.

All i did was use a challenger ability/perk, and wear heavy armour, and the enemy did negligible damage to me, an enemy that apparently 2 shots people.

They do in fact TWO SHOT YOU [clips.twitch.tv]

Maybe they make solo baby easy or something, but it don't help your argument to lie.

[Sigs]

Solo does have a lot less scaling, and the scaling is wonky af. When people complain about the mechanics in general being bad they're probably talking long term, as the way DR caps and you can't improve defenses leaves you very little choice but perfect dodging as almost everything can OHKO you or set you on fire just enough to kill you even at max DR, max HP, and high res.

The game seems more intended for you to roll characters and play through fresh than play like the first. The more you play on a character, the more obsolete they become as they just can't scale and traits are worthless.

[Dyvawn]

I guess the only way is to get the spear and start using it like javelin.