Torpedoes went under a destroyer ship!

[nathan]

Right, could somebody explain why or how come at times, my torpedoes went under a destroyer's hull? I had more than enough subs in a pack to sink it, yet not one even hit the target, yet instead they just somehow went under hull without going off? Do you think the sea state waves have anything to do with it or was it due to very low firing solution?

[cswiger]

Torps routinely went under DDs in higher sea states. Plus, 1942 torps on the US side had major problems with their detonators and with depth-keeping and tended to run too deep.

WOTS isn't a dedicated sub sim like Silent Hunter, so you don't have explicit control over impact vs magnetic detonator selection or torp depth, which means you can't work around the problems handicapping the effectiveness of torps.

Short version: don't waste torps on DDs. Use them on merchants and capital ships.

[Targaryen22]

Originally posted by cswiger:

Short version: don't waste torps on DDs. Use them on merchants and capital ships.

^^^ Just send a flight of dive bombers with rockets. A single flight of 4 with rockets will pretty much outright sink a single DD if not severely cripple it and cause the AI to move the entire TF back to port to release the damaged DDs.

[nathan]

Originally posted by Targaryen22:

Originally posted by cswiger:

Short version: don't waste torps on DDs. Use them on merchants and capital ships.

^^^ Just send a flight of dive bombers with rockets. A single flight of 4 with rockets will pretty much outright sink a single DD if not severely cripple it and cause the AI to move the entire TF back to port to release the damaged DDs.

Oh, so you saying if I have an CV group with dive planes that has rockets, the A.I would return back to base? If that's the case, would this also applies to convoy types? Just what I saw is they are getting past my subs yet somehow, other ships would go into battle without letting you say, no just ignore it ect

[cswiger]

Dive bombers like the SBD Dauntless don't carry rockets; those are equipped on the TBF Avenger instead of air-dropped torpedoes.

Anyway, if you significantly damage ships in an AI convoy, the AI tends to have it retreat for repairs.

[Targaryen22]

Originally posted by cswiger:

Dive bombers like the SBD Dauntless don't carry rockets; those are equipped on the TBF Avenger instead of air-dropped torpedoes.

Thank you for the correction, I didn't realize I said dive bombers instead of torp bombers lol.

Originally posted by nathan:

Originally posted by Targaryen22:

^^^ Just send a flight of dive bombers with rockets. A single flight of 4 with rockets will pretty much outright sink a single DD if not severely cripple it and cause the AI to move the entire TF back to port to release the damaged DDs.

Oh, so you saying if I have an CV group with dive planes that has rockets, the A.I would return back to base? If that's the case, would this also applies to convoy types? Just what I saw is they are getting past my subs yet somehow, other ships would go into battle without letting you say, no just ignore it ect

yeah, send some Avengers with rockets instead of torps equipped. A flight of 4 is generally enough to, relatively quickly sink a single DD. and if it doesn't, The ship will be damaged enough it tends to make the AI order that convoy to retreat for repairs even without completing their transport goal. From what I've seen from a number of different campaigns I've played at least.
Edited: I'm intentionally dragging out my current campaign as much as I can to try to get the Essex and the Balti and Iowa's without changing it in the files so I'm currently 45days or so into the campaign and I've used this method to send the AI back to port many times instead of just outright sinking the entirety of their military surface ships lol. the trick seems to work like 99% of the time though. Strike a group, leave a ship or two damaged and the next strike catches them as they start the return journey

[MizuYuuki]

Originally posted by nathan:

Oh, so you saying if I have an CV group with dive planes that has rockets, the A.I would return back to base? If that's the case, would this also applies to convoy types? Just what I saw is they are getting past my subs yet somehow, other ships would go into battle without letting you say, no just ignore it ect

You have to be careful on this because the AI will retreat a convoy that takes damage, and later turn it around and continue its mission.

[Targaryen22]

Originally posted by MizuYuuki:

Originally posted by nathan:

Oh, so you saying if I have an CV group with dive planes that has rockets, the A.I would return back to base? If that's the case, would this also applies to convoy types? Just what I saw is they are getting past my subs yet somehow, other ships would go into battle without letting you say, no just ignore it ect

You have to be careful on this because the AI will retreat a convoy that takes damage, and later turn it around and continue its mission.

From what I've noticed the AI at least for their convoys to Quad like to go up north of the chain of islands and hug the north coast there. Not too hard to station a CV like the Wasp or something that's relatively cheap in a position to have dive and torp bombers reach that route so its not that big a deal except at night

[nathan]

Originally posted by Targaryen22:

Originally posted by MizuYuuki:

You have to be careful on this because the AI will retreat a convoy that takes damage, and later turn it around and continue its mission.

From what I've noticed the AI at least for their convoys to Quad like to go up north of the chain of islands and hug the north coast there. Not too hard to station a CV like the Wasp or something that's relatively cheap in a position to have dive and torp bombers reach that route so its not that big a deal except at night

Well, that's if you don't get attacked by the A.I subs who tends to enjoy attacking within a range you can't find them at all. I don't know if I should risk having one CV with DD escorts and what's left over to have a pack of subs into a wolfpack or just to spend all the points on subs and send them into the middle of the island so they can attack IJN ships.

[MizuYuuki]

Originally posted by Targaryen22:

From what I've noticed the AI at least for their convoys to Quad like to go up north of the chain of islands and hug the north coast there. Not too hard to station a CV like the Wasp or something that's relatively cheap in a position to have dive and torp bombers reach that route so its not that big a deal except at night

This strategy works very well especially if you create a surface force such as 2 CA + 3 DD, and place it between Guadalcanal and Rennell Islands. Use line-ahead formation with 1000 yd spacing, and put the 3 DD's up front. The AI subs will go after that fleet, and they almost always attack the DD's for some reason. The CV + 1 CL + 3 DD task force can be located just east of the last Soloman Island in the chain, and is relatively safe there. You can use circular formation with the CV at the center and the CL behind it. The CA and CL provide Kingfisher scouts for spotting incoming enemy convoys. Hold back 4 scouts on one of the CA's to be used for shadowing an enemy convoy that's been detected. You don't have to make the CV task force the first week. Once you have the CV, focus on sinking the enemy merchant ships, and send the B17's from New Habrides to help out. Don't waste aircraft going after warships. Secure Rennell Islands and Santa Cruz right away, and build level 2 ports on them + a level 2 airbase on Rennell Islands to get those 4 Avengers. If the enemy builds a level 1 airfield on Guadalcanal, bombard it with your CA task force. Send damaged DD's back to New Hebrides and send out replacements for them right away. Don't wait for them to come out of Rest and Repair.

[T.TV/NokiAndNai]

Specifically, in Sea State 6 or higher, the waves can cause DDs to bob so much as to make torpedoes likely to miss underneath them. Any sea state less than that and it should not be a problem. In such a sea state, your subs should be able to avoid detection easily enough, so the DDs need not be a prime target, and if using torpedoes from the air, DDs are as difficult and insignificant a target as you could possibly pick and not worth the risk to your planes.