Good starting fleet composition? (USN)

[Tex]

I want to have a carrier but what would be good screening ships for it to get started?

Also submarines, alone or in wolfpacks?

Any other recommended patrol fleet compositions?

[Jagu]

Get 2 fletchers and 2 clevelands and your carrier put them in a circular with carrier in the middle and you are golden. That should be 180 points so spend the rest on 2 submarines and send both to guadacanal and park them there. Hunt IJN cruiser groups mercilessly with your carrier and you should have more than enough to send your first convoy with decent escorts in 2 days.

[HenryPigLatin]

It depends what you want.

There's no doubt in my mind that because of the campaign command point mechanics, splurging on a carrier (even with the cost change) is absolutely the most effective strategy. That's because you will lose planes which don't cost you anything to kill ships. The downside? You wont start out with a s much a fleet at first, which you will soon remedy because you will rack up kills. It does mean its easy to not get a lot of surface battles which are just fun because air power is so effective (historically accurate).

If you want the less effective, more "challenging" route, don't get a carrier at first and force yourself to fight it out on the seas. Brooklynand Cleveland CLs are simply viscious for their cost. Brooklyns are a great starting fleet because they bring so many guns to bare for such a cheap price. They don't have the AA that Clevelands do, but at the start of the campaign that's not such a risk.

[HenryPigLatin]

I am trying a starting fleet of 6 Brooklyn CLs and 4 Porter DDs. That is a TON of guns for a surprisingly cheap (just over 100) cost.

[dangiesey]

As an IJN player, I'll attest that I really dread squaring off against the USN CLs like the Brooklyns and the Clevelands. The USN already has a gunnery advantage, and the rate of fire of the 6'' guns is extraordinary such that anything they shoot at gets absolutely smothered with shells.

This makes USN CLs quite competitive with Japanese heavy cruisers. Yes, the Japanese ships have torpedoes and often have 10x 203mm guns, but the torpedo mounts on cruisers are significantly more limited in terms of firing arcs than those on destroyers and the firing arcs of the cruiser guns also aren't always the best. The number 2 turret, in particular, has perhaps a 60 degree arc to port or starboard, but cannot train to target at many closing and pursuit angles.

A hail of fire from 6'' guns also has a way of causing numerous fires that overwhelm damage control and result in ships with minimal flooding eventually being lost. Although I haven't played as the USN, I agree with the suggestion that CLs give you lots of combat power for relatively little cost.

[HenryPigLatin]

I agree with that. I just won an IJ campaign and hate fighting USN CLs as much as I love using them as the US.

The game does a really great job making things different and generally accurate for both sides such that it's hard to compare. They are just very different navies with very different doctrines.


Having said that, I'll go ahead and break what I just said by saying that I think it is precisely that the USNs CLs are so badass and the IJN just has nothing to match that makes the USN overall better in this game. Honestly the IJN doesn't actually have real CLs. Their CLs are just lead destroyers.

The Brooklyn and Cleveland classes can kill CAS and nonplussed l annihilate CLs, DD, and logistics ships. They only need to run from BB and planes.

[Herr Flick]

I have tried making actual groups just google some battles in the Solomons and see what you can make, eg for the Japanese I made the carrier strike force of Shokaku and Zuikaku and 6dds escorts

[teddy]

I start with CV + 1 DD and subs for all other CPs. With right positioning they erase everything

[HenryPigLatin]

Not kidding, try a game without starting with a carrier. Much harder, Much more fleet combat.

[Deace]

I really don't understand why I can't use the carrier to launch AC during a battle, especially once the Carrier is out of harms way.... Can't get Carrier to work in Custom Battles!

[Enderminion]

Originally posted by It's all good man:

Get 2 fletchers and 2 clevelands and your carrier put them in a circular with carrier in the middle and you are golden. That should be 180 points so spend the rest on 2 submarines and send both to guadacanal and park them there. Hunt IJN cruiser groups mercilessly with your carrier and you should have more than enough to send your first convoy with decent escorts in 2 days.

I'll disagree with this, particularly the carrier group build, a Gridley or Bagley has nearly the same AA as a Fletcher at 3/5th the cost, it's a compromise but leaves more points for other things; a pair of more points can be saved switching one of the Clevelands out for an Atlanta perhaps more if you swap the other Cleveland for a Brooklyn (imo you want to keep the Floatplanes which Atlanta's lack).

[RunsWithScissors]

Originally posted by Deace:

I really don't understand why I can't use the carrier to launch AC during a battle, especially once the Carrier is out of harms way.... Can't get Carrier to work in Custom Battles!

Carriers need to launch before they enter the tactical map, once in the tactical map they cannot launch. This is kind of historically accurate, at least when you consider surface battles. Carriers are supposed to flee from surface contacts. And keep in mind carriers need to turn into the wind to launch aircraft. Also keep in mind cycling aircraft on a carrier is more something for the strategic map in terms of times and distance, as opposed to in real-time on the tactical map.

I would not mind if they ‘played’ with the rules a little to allow alert aircraft to launch on the tactical map but the carrier would have to sail into the wind.

[HenryPigLatin]

There's a good discussion thread on the subject of carriers launching tactically or not.

[dangiesey]

Originally posted by Deace:

I really don't understand why I can't use the carrier to launch AC during a battle, especially once the Carrier is out of harms way.... Can't get Carrier to work in Custom Battles!

You just launch right before the battle. In a custom battle, you can just add the planes you want.

[Glax]

Originally posted by It's all good man:

Get 2 fletchers and 2 clevelands and your carrier put them in a circular with carrier in the middle and you are golden. That should be 180 points so spend the rest on 2 submarines and send both to guadacanal and park them there. Hunt IJN cruiser groups mercilessly with your carrier and you should have more than enough to send your first convoy with decent escorts in 2 days.

I was about to delete this damned game as starting was so hard. Thanks for this solid tip. It is working really well!

[TREXINATUX]

I usually start with a Carrier Task Force, a Fletcher Destroyer TF screen, and 4 sub TF's. I park the CV well south Guadalcanal and send planes to and then west of Guadalcanal and rack up kills in the "slot" between the islands. The DD screens are parked between CV and likely approaches from the slot. The subs park around the entrances to Guadalcanal and act as scouts and occasionally torpedoes ships if the sea state is ideal and I have a good torpedo run approach. Otherwise, I just exit to the map without firing torpedoes as I'm picky if it's worth the time to set up a torp run and hope that they all aren't duds.

Later for USN I like a strong DD Fletcher screen of 6 TF's consisting of 3x DD's per TF with them cycling out for ammo/death charges/repairs. They are staged around my CV with at least one heavy BB large support fleet TF near enough to engage surface ships charging the carrier. Ideally you would want three or four DD TF's on station and two rotating out. Later I would add in the second CV and more Heavy defending TF's. And as need arises spam those subs far afield as you have tons of them. I then have a camping BB fleet go in and sit on Guadalcanal and shore bombard anytime they decide to build an airfield and protect my supply runs bringing in men and material.

I run my CV TF light with only three escorts: an Atlanta/Brooklyn class, and two Fletcher class. The other screening ships are more than enough and if your CV is engaged it should only be by a lone sub which is easy to counter with the small escort. Using an air cap should be helpful in locating any large surface force in time to run away with your CV.

I always run subs alone.