Can you manually dive bomb?

[Caughtout]

...

[Vanu Kaos]

I was pondering the same question. I cannot make the DB hit a steep enough angle manually so I leave it to the AI but would love to be able to put the aircraft in a steeper dive to aim manually.

[VX]

It's not a flight sim as stated in the description so the dive bombing is abstracted even though the 3d representation is very well done.

I find it strange that we have the ability to manually fire the guns and drop ordnance. It is almost as if they added that feature to give people a little more to work with but it doesn't feel right.

I'd prefer to leave it to the AI allowing me only to line up the angle from which to attack and formation and timing. This is very much like it was with AF except we have a more immersive 3D environment so I think people think it's a flight sim and want all of the abilities that would come with that type of system.

[The Inept European]

Yeah I'd like to be able to do less, not more. :D

[VX]

Well if you read the threads so many people criticize the game for not having more automatic AI routines and then you get threads like this one where they want to manually dive bomb.

There has to be a limit to which one can control certain aspects and I don't think Killerfish has ever felt that the aviation portion of the design should be simulator like.

[LΞTHAK]

Frankly, I find the AI suboptimal when dive bombing with a single or two plane.
Serriously, they don't even align with the target speed velocity vector before bombing.
Straffing runs are a JOKE with the AI shooting 90% of the run into the water even before aligning with the target.

So I want more manual control to perform more efficiently.

I would love a target sight for TB (not just the minimap thing, but in the 3D world too), and more DIRECT control of a plane, like in a SIMPLIFIED flight sim, where I can control yaw, pitch, roll and speed a-la Battlefield or other arcade shooter.

The current system is really clanky to use in a real time situation.

Either we should have top notch manual control, or top notch AI attacks.
We currently have neither of that.


I really love the ideas behind this game, but its not there yet.

[VX]

First it is not meant to be played real time imho, using the pause is necessary especially if you have a surface engagement alongside aviation assets. If you are playing all of that real time without using the pause then you are adding a lot of challenge to the game and that is your decision to do so. Perhaps the recent popularity in "wargames" which have players furiously clicking on units in real time has skewed many people to believe this game was meant to be played in that style.

Second there is going to be some built in error since your pilots are not all going to be perfect of course. I have found that a flight of 4 dive bombers perhaps 60 percent of the bombs are near misses but this can vary. Of course the angle you approach the ships with is a huge factor. I haven't found strafing to be a joke at all, again you have to realize the aircraft attacks are not a literal simulator style representation, some of the rounds will hit and some will miss.

I'm sure you would enjoy having all of those things to allow you to "fly" the aircraft but that was never advertised by the developer and really isn't the focus of this game. As in Atlantic Fleet the aviation portion is abstract and allows the player to interact to a certain point after which you are at the mercy of your pilots to do the best that they can. The current system is a huge improvement on AF and I think they have done a decent job of moving forward considering the scope and scale of the game.

I have yet to have my aircraft completely fail at attacking enemy ships either with torpedoes or bombs. Sometimes they take heavy losses, sometimes not, sometimes they heavily damage ships, sometimes not so well but overall nothing has been what I would call historically improbable.

[The Inept European]

I would enjoy playing this game in real time, but that will require the AI controlled player units to behave more effectively without micromanagement.

It's already possible to do that if you are willing to accept some sub optimal situations. Probably the biggest tactical difficulty now is that the AI controlled player units don't initiate, or avoid, torpedo attacks. The AI controlled enemy units at least initiate torpedo attacks. If it were not for the need for a "god-eyed" Admiral to babysit torpedo attack and defence, you could set your orders and watch the show, in real time. That would be very cool.

[VX]

Don't want to drift off the OP's subject to far but I think the lack of friendly AI firing torpedoes is related to a bug where even the player cannot initiate firing torpedoes. It's easily duplicated with US destroyers in custom battles. Set a target, go to the torpedo attack panel, set the torpedo number, set the spread, see that the target is within the arc and press FIRE and they will not launch.

[The Inept European]

Hmm I don't have any problem firing torpedoes. It does often take a very long time for them to launch though. And it's easy to miss when they do launch. I usually have to check underwater camera just to see if and when they launched.

But as you say, somewhat off topic, my bad. :-)

[VX]

Try the US Fletcher DD in custom mission, give it some simple target like a Maru.... don't fire your torpedoes right away though, maneuver around for a few minutes then target them with the torps and see how they do. Make sure to mouse over the turrets and look at the range being calculated, usually it's showing way too far vs the actual range. If you get the same bug then they will not fire even though they are well within range and the arcs. You get the animation of the batteries trying to aim but they will not fire. This is duplicated on other US destroyers as well. Keep in mind this is NOT using the "MAN" button selected.

Sorry for the thread drift but in the bugs section it is confirmed as a bug and is being looked into. Carry on.

[The Inept European]

I've seen the crazy range bug. But are you saying it happens all the time? Or just sometimes?

[VX]

It seems to be with the allied ships only, Japanese DD's do just fine. It happens every time I try US DD's in custom mission, try i yourself, I"m using 1.07b.

[Caughtout]

Originally posted by VX:

It's not a flight sim as stated in the description so the dive bombing is abstracted even though the 3d representation is very well done.

I find it strange that we have the ability to manually fire the guns and drop ordnance. It is almost as if they added that feature to give people a little more to work with but it doesn't feel right.

I'd prefer to leave it to the AI allowing me only to line up the angle from which to attack and formation and timing. This is very much like it was with AF except we have a more immersive 3D environment so I think people think it's a flight sim and want all of the abilities that would come with that type of system.

Does this mean it's *not* possible to do?

[VX]

Simple answer is no, I think in order to get the aircraft to start a dive type attack you must assign the target and then order them to attack. Dive bomber type attacks are a AI routine only carried out from about 3,000 ft in game altitude.

I do not think there is a way to manually "fly" the plane into a dive attack. You only can level bomb using the manual bomb release method.