What's with the murderous japanese float planes.

[Gunfreak]

Playing my first campaign, half stumbling around.
I'm using the Tokyo express mod.
And so far japanese float planes have shot down more of my SBDs than Zeros have.

I mean sure the SBDs aren't spitfires, but at least they don't have giant canoes on their feet.
My SBDs kinda just fly and die. I'm quite sure the SBDs are a lot faster too.
I mean realistically the Japanese float planes shouldn't engage other planes at all. Be completely defensive.

[Masonator]

TTE adds the floatplane version of the Zero, which can be operated by IJN bases from Lv1. They're probably the planes you're encountering (and yes, they're a PITA).

[pointman]

Are these aircraft E13 scout/bombers or are they A6M2-N Zero fighters? The Japanese used a floatplane version of the famous Zero-Sen widely. Secondly, are you engaging in dogfights or are you just flying straight and level? If you are using SBD's as a scout plane - which personally I think is a mistake - and your scout encounters enemy fighters, you are better off trying to dogfight them, than just trying to escape. I can't tell how many times my TBDs and SBDs have shot down Japanese planes in similar situations. Now, if your lone scout gets jumped by several Japanese fighters, then you're going to lose it, but it's still worth a try to dogfight them. You might take one or two down before succumbing. The SBD is surprisingly good in a dogfight.

[jotabe1984]

Diposting pertama kali oleh pointman:

Are these aircraft E13 scout/bombers or are they A6M2-N Zero fighters? The Japanese used a floatplane version of the famous Zero-Sen widely. Secondly, are you engaging in dogfights or are you just flying straight and level? If you are using SBD's as a scout plane - which personally I think is a mistake - and your scout encounters enemy fighters, you are better off trying to dogfight them, than just trying to escape. I can't tell how many times my TBDs and SBDs have shot down Japanese planes in similar situations. Now, if your lone scout gets jumped by several Japanese fighters, then you're going to lose it, but it's still worth a try to dogfight them. You might take one or two down before succumbing. The SBD is surprisingly good in a dogfight.

SBD Dauntless is for a reason... Scout is the reason for the "S"

USNavy doctrine in WW2 was that Carrier should do their own scouting, therefore Dauntless was designed to perform these duties.

IJN doctrine in WW2 was that cruisers fitted with floatplanes will carry the scouting for the fleet, that's why they designed ships for that role like Tone, seaplane tender ships and had a lot of imput into seaplanes.

both doctrines presented problems and advantages, but back to the game, Dauntless is there (among other jobs) for scouting duties, since Kingfisher's role is more of a gun director's platform

[Gunfreak]

Diposting pertama kali oleh jotabe1984:

Diposting pertama kali oleh pointman:

Are these aircraft E13 scout/bombers or are they A6M2-N Zero fighters? The Japanese used a floatplane version of the famous Zero-Sen widely. Secondly, are you engaging in dogfights or are you just flying straight and level? If you are using SBD's as a scout plane - which personally I think is a mistake - and your scout encounters enemy fighters, you are better off trying to dogfight them, than just trying to escape. I can't tell how many times my TBDs and SBDs have shot down Japanese planes in similar situations. Now, if your lone scout gets jumped by several Japanese fighters, then you're going to lose it, but it's still worth a try to dogfight them. You might take one or two down before succumbing. The SBD is surprisingly good in a dogfight.

SBD Dauntless is for a reason... Scout is the reason for the "S"

USNavy doctrine in WW2 was that Carrier should do their own scouting, therefore Dauntless was designed to perform these duties.

IJN doctrine in WW2 was that cruisers fitted with floatplanes will carry the scouting for the fleet, that's why they designed ships for that role like Tone, seaplane tender ships and had a lot of imput into seaplanes.

both doctrines presented problems and advantages, but back to the game, Dauntless is there (among other jobs) for scouting duties, since Kingfisher's role is more of a gun director's platform

Yes, that's why I use the SBDs for scouting. I used to send out 3 or 4 plane flights. So they could do an impromptu bombing run if they found an appropriate target.
But they get shot down no matter how many I have or what type of enemy they encounter. So now I just send one, so that's all I'll lose if it meets the enemy.
I understand this is a strategy game and not a flight simulator. But I feel the planes mostly act like cessnas.
They go up and down and side to side. They don't appear to do rolls, loops or split S. That means once a plane is on their six. They usually get shot down.

Again in the grand scheme of simulating large air and sea battles it all equals out I guess. But its noticeable in smaller plane on plane fights. They seem a bit hapless.

[jotabe1984]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Gunfreak:

Diposting pertama kali oleh jotabe1984:

SBD Dauntless is for a reason... Scout is the reason for the "S"

USNavy doctrine in WW2 was that Carrier should do their own scouting, therefore Dauntless was designed to perform these duties.

IJN doctrine in WW2 was that cruisers fitted with floatplanes will carry the scouting for the fleet, that's why they designed ships for that role like Tone, seaplane tender ships and had a lot of imput into seaplanes.

both doctrines presented problems and advantages, but back to the game, Dauntless is there (among other jobs) for scouting duties, since Kingfisher's role is more of a gun director's platform

Yes, that's why I use the SBDs for scouting. I used to send out 3 or 4 plane flights. So they could do an impromptu bombing run if they found an appropriate target.
But they get shot down no matter how many I have or what type of enemy they encounter. So now I just send one, so that's all I'll lose if it meets the enemy.
I understand this is a strategy game and not a flight simulator. But I feel the planes mostly act like cessnas.
They go up and down and side to side. They don't appear to do rolls, loops or split S. That means once a plane is on their six. They usually get shot down.

Again in the grand scheme of simulating large air and sea battles it all equals out I guess. But its noticeable in smaller plane on plane fights. They seem a bit hapless.

i haven't tested Tokyo Express mod so i can't really tell, but on vanilla game, using "auto" everytime ends up with scout downed. But if you use manual, you can change altitude and retreat or even evade or at least shoot down a couple of chasers with rear gunner

[pointman]

Diposting pertama kali oleh jotabe1984:

SBD Dauntless is for a reason... Scout is the reason for the "S"

USNavy doctrine in WW2 was that Carrier should do their own scouting, therefore Dauntless was designed to perform these duties.

IJN doctrine in WW2 was that cruisers fitted with floatplanes will carry the scouting for the fleet, that's why they designed ships for that role like Tone, seaplane tender ships and had a lot of imput into seaplanes.

both doctrines presented problems and advantages, but back to the game, Dauntless is there (among other jobs) for scouting duties, since Kingfisher's role is more of a gun director's platform

Well thanks, I think, but you didn't tell me anything I didn't know. But historical doctrine and a plane's intended role doesn't mean you have to use them that way in WotS. Right? So since that's the case, let me see if I can say it again without fear of a lecture. Using SBDs to scout is a mistake. They are too vulnerable, as the poster is complaining, and they are too valuable to fritter away on scouting missions.

[pointman]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Gunfreak:

Yes, that's why I use the SBDs for scouting. I used to send out 3 or 4 plane flights. So they could do an impromptu bombing run if they found an appropriate target.
But they get shot down no matter how many I have or what type of enemy they encounter. So now I just send one, so that's all I'll lose if it meets the enemy.
I understand this is a strategy game and not a flight simulator. But I feel the planes mostly act like cessnas.
They go up and down and side to side. They don't appear to do rolls, loops or split S. That means once a plane is on their six. They usually get shot down.

Again in the grand scheme of simulating large air and sea battles it all equals out I guess. But its noticeable in smaller plane on plane fights. They seem a bit hapless.

Gun, I think it's best to use fighters, both land-based and carrier-based, for scouting if you don't have any O2Us available. Fighters can scout as well as any other plane and they are not as vulnerable. O2Us and PBYs are expendable, so use those also. But save your strike aircraft for....strikes. If your fighters find something, then circle around it's course and launch a strike from whatever base or carrier is within range. I sympathize with you problem because the game can be frustrating, but it's best to use an aircraft type that minimizes your risks while scouting, such as a fighter or an expendable type. I hope this is helpful and good luck.