Escorts

[G13 TALOS]

What are you're go to escorts? for both sides, I've got 2 Atlantas (haha floating Flak Tower go Ack-Ack), 4 Fletchers and 2 Cleveland's on my carrier currently in 3 column but I feel this is a bit over the top and I know it's not historical, so, any advice on what escorts I should stick on BBs and CVs? I'm still learning the mechanics on this campaign so I'm not really caring about historical accuracy, although, of course, if you know these, I'm not gonna say no to the info. finally, once I got the US campaign done, i'd like to do a JP campaign, I don't really know any ships on the japanese side outside of the "famous" ships everyone knows, Yamato, Kongo etc. so I'd love advice on them. sorry if this is an obvious question or Its just plain retarded

[Aldodrem]

Originally posted by Holy_Crusader:

once I got the US campaign done, i'd like to do a JP campaign, I don't really know any ships on the japanese side outside of the "famous" ships everyone knows, Yamato, Kongo etc. so I'd love advice on them. sorry if this is an obvious question or Its just plain retarded

I'm the complete opposite of you. I played IJN first since I didn't know all their ships. It let me learn them all before I go to the other side! I spam DD for escorts, they are cheap are very numerous.

Usually running with 6 DDs and all Convoy for the remaining 4, or if it is a battle group I'll take 4 DD and a pair of CL for the escorts and fill the remaining 4 with the Capital ships. Than again I favour IJN long lance torpedo attacks in combat so the heavy escort focus is suitable for this.

When I go USN I'll probably cut the escort numbers down by having a 1:1 ratio.

[DEWEY_96_]

Convoy groups for me run 4 DD's, 2 CL's (Atlanta's or Brooklyn class) and then the rest transports/tankers. For battle groups I will run 4 DD's and minimum 2 CL's (usually 3) and the rest CA's or BB's. Usually Cleveland class for battle groups. I do have 2 current "DD hunter" battle groups that are all DD's and CL's with a mix of Clevelands, Brooklyns and Atlantas to run down the 2-3 small DD groups that seem to spawn endlessly...

[Amogus]

i don't have any escort for my merchant convoy, in fact i wouldn't recommend giving any escorts for them. there is really no need as i find out, and it's a waste of resources, the merchant ships are very slow moving ships and breaking them up to just engage ONE submarine is very annoying in real time battle, and if there is an enemy surface fleet your merchant ships are too slow to run away, and your escort won't be able to sink enemy ships fast enough to protect those helpless merchant ships. you don't want merchant ships to have to deal with combat engagment. So how do you do this?

easy you don't let them get close to your merchant fleet to begin with. what i do is run serveral picket taskforces a few submarines for patrolling the most open area. what is good about submarines is that you don't have to engage enemy surface fleet if you don't feel like it. but they can spot any incoming surface ships, though i would recommend it because sinking a cruiser can be a huge advantage, second is scout plane patrol just launch all your scout planes from your cruisers and battleships draw big circle on map. they are bound to spot any incoming ships be it subs or surface fleet. now make a surface task force of just battleships and cruiers to deal with any surface threat and make taskfroce with just destroyers to deal with submarines.
don't forget land bases can launch planes too, once you have a level 2 airfield on guaduacanal you are going to have much much easier time dealing with enemy surface task force, and since i have planes all over the place i know exactly where enemy fleets are at all time, and i would launch air strike to raid them and finish them off once they weak enough with my surface fleet.
no need ot escort anymore in fact now i am in the campagin where i even let my carrier run naked because there are no threats i cannot detect.

[Lik]

I have only played on the Japanese side so far, but I definitely see merit in including at least two destroyers with sonar (anything but the Momi) with any transport fleet as while you don't necessarily want your convoys hanging around during a battle, sinking a sub with no losses is better than just taking no losses and getting away. But, then again, I for one can't be bothered to micro several fleets in circles around eachother, and having dedicated destroyer task forces in support instead of wrapped in with the merchants could also work. As far as for Anti-Aircraft support, the most viable options I've found in the japanese roster are the Akizuki first and foremost, with Tone and Mogami being used rarely in support of heavier fleet units. One fleet I found myself using for combat for a while was a circle formation of 2 battleships surrounded by Akizukis, with the last three slots in the fleet at the back being light and heavy cruisers that can break off and close with destroyer or merchant fleets without risking the whole task force.

[dangiesey]

My carrier group consists of both Shokaku-class carriers and 8 Akizuki-class destroyers, the idea being to maximize AA firepower. Rather than have escorts designed to protect against surface attack sail with the carriers directly, I screen ahead with separate task forces.

My primary surface force right now consists of Yamato, 2x Kongo-class ships, 4x Kagero-class destroyers and a Sendai-class CL. Once the Musashi and the two other Kongos are out of the repair yard, I'll duplicate this force. I've sunk five of the six US battleships and either of these forces is strong enough to easily handle the one that remains.

[G13 TALOS]

Originally posted by DEWEY_96_:

Convoy groups for me run 4 DD's, 2 CL's (Atlanta's or Brooklyn class) and then the rest transports/tankers. For battle groups I will run 4 DD's and minimum 2 CL's (usually 3) and the rest CA's or BB's. Usually Cleveland class for battle groups. I do have 2 current "DD hunter" battle groups that are all DD's and CL's with a mix of Clevelands, Brooklyns and Atlantas to run down the 2-3 small DD groups that seem to spawn endlessly...

the ai spawns 3 of them daily once you get to mid game with all their important ships sunk, I saw it when i tried to bombard the level 5 port

[G13 TALOS]

Originally posted by dangiesey:

My carrier group consists of both Shokaku-class carriers and 8 Akizuki-class destroyers, the idea being to maximize AA firepower. Rather than have escorts designed to protect against surface attack sail with the carriers directly, I screen ahead with separate task forces.

My primary surface force right now consists of Yamato, 2x Kongo-class ships, 4x Kagero-class destroyers and a Sendai-class CL. Once the Musashi and the two other Kongos are out of the repair yard, I'll duplicate this force. I've sunk five of the six US battleships and either of these forces is strong enough to easily handle the one that remains.

honestly, the battleships are only really dangerous to your carriers, the DDs are a bigger threat, her escorts peeling away and dumping torps can sink or ruin half the taskforce, I'd not waste the command points on the 3 extra BBs, I'd grab another merchant fleet and start leapfrogging supplies, what was the starting fleet for you btw? I'm struggling to put one that isn't destroyed instantly by the 2x2x2 or a carrier in the early stages before I rack up enough points to have replacement fleets

[dangiesey]

Originally posted by Holy_Crusader:

Originally posted by dangiesey:

My carrier group consists of both Shokaku-class carriers and 8 Akizuki-class destroyers, the idea being to maximize AA firepower. Rather than have escorts designed to protect against surface attack sail with the carriers directly, I screen ahead with separate task forces.

My primary surface force right now consists of Yamato, 2x Kongo-class ships, 4x Kagero-class destroyers and a Sendai-class CL. Once the Musashi and the two other Kongos are out of the repair yard, I'll duplicate this force. I've sunk five of the six US battleships and either of these forces is strong enough to easily handle the one that remains.

honestly, the battleships are only really dangerous to your carriers, the DDs are a bigger threat, her escorts peeling away and dumping torps can sink or ruin half the taskforce, I'd not waste the command points on the 3 extra BBs, I'd grab another merchant fleet and start leapfrogging supplies, what was the starting fleet for you btw? I'm struggling to put one that isn't destroyed instantly by the 2x2x2 or a carrier in the early stages before I rack up enough points to have replacement fleets

I started out with 1x Yamato and 2x Kagero along with Shokaku and 2-3x Akizuiki. And a two merchants with a Momi or two to escort. In short, I really went quality over quantity and bet the farm that I could decisively defeat the first thing I encountered.

The Yamato, with minimal escorts, can take a 2x2x2. I had each of my destroyers engage the opposite enemy destroyer while the Yamato fired on one CL with its main battery and another with its secondary battery. With those out of the way, you have lots of options:

You can use your secondary batteries to help your destroyers finish off the enemy destroyers while using your main battery against one of the remaining cruisers, or you can quickly use all your firepower to wipe out the destroyers and then have your destroyers help finish off the cruisers.

Whenever possible, I went into battle with dive bombers or torpedo planes overhead. If you open with an air attack and inflict some damage (you don't actually need to sink anything), the odds will heavily be in your favor.

More generally, there are a few guiding principles to escorts as far as I see it, and that discussion really has to start with an examination of the types of threats that one encounters:

1.) Aircraft. Are deadly. The USN generally has good AA capability, although this would improve later in the war even further. The IJN, on the other hand, is relatively lacking in this area. The Akizukis, with their 8x2 100mm DP guns are certainly better than the other IJN ships in this regard (whose 127mm L/50 guns really aren't suitable for AA use) and can put up a competent barrage, but even 8 Akizukis cannot seriously disrupt a determined air attack. They'll shoot down a plane or two before and after munitions are released, but it's too late at that point. I like to keep them concentrated around my carriers as they're the single highest value asset I have, but I don't think I'd both putting them with my battleships -- they're not nearly as well suited to surface combat as the other IJN DDs and they're not so effective that they're really going to make a difference if you come under air attack. Realistically, the best strategy to protect against air attack is providing your own air cover.

2.) Submarines. Yes, the Mark 14 torpedo is quite unreliable, but subs are still a threat. I like to include destroyers to capital ships (and/or heavy cruisers) in a 1:1 ratio.

3.) Surface vessels. If you have a big-gun ship and they do not, the odds are very much in your favor. This is why I generally build task forces around battleships and generally only use cruiser formations for pursuit work, to screen ahead of my carriers, or to temporarily relieve battleships while they rearm. The IJN BBs have very competent secondary batteries. This is especially true for Yamato, but the Kongos can defend themselves against destroyers as well and are fast enough and maneuverable enough that I don't generally find a destroyer torpedo attack to be a huge threat. Rather, I more often use my DDs offensively to attack the opposing force. I have found that the Sendai-class CLs are worthwhile additions to a destroyer screen because they're quite fast and can follow my destroyers and beat up on enemy DDs while I press home the attack. They're also reasonably maneuverable and have a good torpedo armament themselves. They're really not very competitive fighting other cruisers at all, but they excel in this "destroyer leader" type role.

[G13 TALOS]

Originally posted by dangiesey:

Originally posted by Holy_Crusader:

honestly, the battleships are only really dangerous to your carriers, the DDs are a bigger threat, her escorts peeling away and dumping torps can sink or ruin half the taskforce, I'd not waste the command points on the 3 extra BBs, I'd grab another merchant fleet and start leapfrogging supplies, what was the starting fleet for you btw? I'm struggling to put one that isn't destroyed instantly by the 2x2x2 or a carrier in the early stages before I rack up enough points to have replacement fleets

I started out with 1x Yamato and 2x Kagero along with Shokaku and 2-3x Akizuiki. And a two merchants with a Momi or two to escort. In short, I really went quality over quantity and bet the farm that I could decisively defeat the first thing I encountered.

The Yamato, with minimal escorts, can take a 2x2x2. I had each of my destroyers engage the opposite enemy destroyer while the Yamato fired on one CL with its main battery and another with its secondary battery. With those out of the way, you have lots of options:

You can use your secondary batteries to help your destroyers finish off the enemy destroyers while using your main battery against one of the remaining cruisers, or you can quickly use all your firepower to wipe out the destroyers and then have your destroyers help finish off the cruisers.

Whenever possible, I went into battle with dive bombers or torpedo planes overhead. If you open with an air attack and inflict some damage (you don't actually need to sink anything), the odds will heavily be in your favor.

I'll try that composition, thanks king

[Aldodrem]

Playing as IJN I go as cheap & low tech as possible for all my escorts, fewer points conceded when they get sunk from my aggressive playstyle Charge all ahead every single escort straight into the enemy fleet. I'm completely out of Momi DD and almost out of Wakatake. The AI will focus them since they are charging ahead but each one cost me only 4 command points and will net you 2 in return.

So go ahead try to sink them while my capital ships fire freely at you in return. USN has only Baltimore class CA left which they can't field since it's not that date yet. I've only lost 2 CA in return & I've yet to field a single BB or CV.