Counterflooding & Fires

[Beny]

So I understand that counterflooding is used to keep the ship upright and stop it from capsizing, I still haven't come close to seeing a ship capsizing due to flooding on one side but whatever. Early days.

However, how does it make any sense for a compartment to be both under water and on fire at the same time? I was under the (logical) impression that if you flood a compartment on fire it will rapidly extinguish the fire, except it doesnt. Instead you get a boat with even more water in it that is also on fire?

The only part of the ship I can maybe justify this is in the engineering spaces where maybe there's an oil fueled fire that water won't help with, but even then, a fully flooded compartment doesnt have any oxygen needed for it to burn.

Is this going to be fixed any time soon?

Loved Cold Waters.

Cheers guys.

[Cpl. Hicks]

That pretty much depends on what kind of fire it is. If it is an electrical fire, the last this you want to do is add water. If it is an oil fire, water will not put it out etc.

[Dirty Rotten Flieger]

This is a good point. I have read about magazine being flooded and preventing a fire from causing and explosion and destroying the ship.

On the other hand a fuel oil compartment will still burn as the oil floats. In fact any compartment with fuel or oil in it will still burn...

As for the counter flooding. I imagine that would only be useful in very big ships like heavy cruisers and battle ships. Now you mention it I haven't seen a capsized ship yet either.

[Apollonir]

With TTE i noticed ships capsizing, but shortly before i get the sinking message in battle record. I had a heavy cruiser capsize after taking two long lances to port. She came to a stop wuickly and leaned so much to the side that i got sinking message and it capsized. I have not used counterflooding because i do nit know how much control i have over it. Is it actually any good or does it help my ship sink faster?

[accipiter]

ships DO sink from capsizing often.
it's just not visually represented in the ship turning over after getting the sunk message, because ship generally go under far too quickly in this game after being destroyed. so there isn't even enough time for it to happen.
a mod where destroyed ships take like 10 mins to sink, or even don't sink at all if they were destroyed by critical fire/damage whould be really good for immersion, actually...

but whenever floodings all happens on the same side i noticed it takes far less to sink them than balanced flooding, so i'm convinced capsizing is modelled and work.

i never use counter flooding either. the game like, REALLY BADLY needs a ship balance indicator where it's like a slider bar with a red zone on each extremities, and if the ship goes too far into the red zone, ship lost instantly by "capsizing" or "sunk by the bow/stern".
there whould be 2 slider bars: one for starbord/port balance and one for bow/stern balance.

i used to use counter-flooding only for magazine fires, but i don't even do that anymore as i'm getting pretty sure magazine fires can't even cause detonations anyway (at least i've never seen it happen on me or the AI) it seems only direct magazine damage roll for a detonation chance.

[Cpl. Hicks]

Listing should also effect the accuracy of your artillery.

[Apollonir]

Originally posted by accipiter:

ships DO sink from capsizing often.
it's just not visually represented in the ship turning over after getting the sunk message, because ship generally go under far too quickly in this game after being destroyed. so there isn't even enough time for it to happen.
a mod where destroyed ships take like 10 mins to sink, or even don't sink at all if they were destroyed by critical fire/damage whould be really good for immersion, actually...

but whenever floodings all happens on the same side i noticed it takes far less to sink them than balanced flooding, so i'm convinced capsizing is modelled and work.

i never use counter flooding either. the game like, REALLY BADLY needs a ship balance indicator where it's like a slider bar with a red zone on each extremities, and if the ship goes too far into the red zone, ship lost instantly by "capsizing" or "sunk by the bow/stern".
there whould be 2 slider bars: one for starbord/port balance and one for bow/stern balance.

i used to use counter-flooding only for magazine fires, but i don't even do that anymore as i'm getting pretty sure magazine fires can't even cause detonations anyway (at least i've never seen it happen on me or the AI) it seems only direct magazine damage roll for a detonation chance.

Magazine detonations do happen. I've seen the AI's ships suffer magazine explosions more than a minute after the last bomb/shell struck them. And today an Aoba suffered magazine explosion AFTER the sinking message. So the fires do cause detonations in the mags (they were aflame from bow to stern from bomb hits). I see it a lot more with The Tokyo Express mod because magazine explosion probability is raised to 20%.

[76561198007484948]

I was playing with the Yamato and it got torpedoed, twice (actually four fish hit but only two went off!). I had flooding so I counter-flooded opposite compartments, and next thing I knew I'd sunk the ship!

[byepopejoy]

Originally posted by sunseekers_:

I was playing with the Yamato and it got torpedoed, twice (actually four fish hit but only two went off!). I had flooding so I counter-flooded opposite compartments, and next thing I knew I'd sunk the ship!

The risk with counter-flooding is that the ship's overall buoyancy becomes negative and the ship goes down. Unfortunately, I don't know how the game calculates the point were flooding will sink the ship.

[Beny]

Thanks for all chipping in guys.

I completely forgot about electrical fires. Though I do believe that even an electrical fire flooded by Saltwater would have trouble spreading. The wires would be live but the fire would be doused?

Just wouldn't want to go near there until the waters gone haha.
The oil based fires would flare up for sure, but without oxygen to fuel it in a flooded compartment how would it keep burning?

I wish that instead of having a fixed amount of damage control teams you are able to assign personal to boost the damage control teams. You have personal assigned on the main batteries, secondary batteries, AA, depth charges, director, etc. If necessary you could take teams from their battlestations and reassign them to damage control, obviously resulting in the loss of that system. You wont have enougn crew to do everything at once. For example you'll have to pull personal off the AA to main the depth charges. A team present where a system gets completely destroyed is lost. The bigger the ship and crew, the more teams it has.
Kind of like Naval Actions mechanics, just simplified with teams instead of individual crew.

Also, another instance where counterflooding is also useful.

The USS Texas during the Normandy landings needed to complete a fire mission that was too far inland for their guns maximum elevation.

So the captain flooded the compartments opposite to the direction the guns were facing, forcing a list and therefore giving the guns the required elevation to fire.

Pretty neat solution hahaha. Must've remembered some naval history with respect to the age of sail and how the downwind ships keeling exposed its hull, but allowed for higher elevation shots.

Not necessarily in this. Just a cool story.

[Beny]

Originally posted by byepopejoy:

The risk with counter-flooding is that the ship's overall buoyancy becomes negative and the ship goes down. Unfortunately, I don't know how the game calculates the point were flooding will sink the ship.

This is for sure a problem. Even a simple number in the vessel description listed under "Critical Bouyancy = 6" with 6 being the maximum number of fully flooded compartments possible before the ship sinks.

Something as simple as that would be nice.

[kangarootheroo77]

you must have fast fingers benny.i dont know about anyone else but in combat with multiple ships and enemies i wouldnt have time to micromanage pulling crew members off of stations and putting them on fire control or any other kind of repairs.its hard enough trying to keep your ships from constantly wanting to run into each other for no reason.just saying

[Beny]

Originally posted by kangarootheroo77:

you must have fast fingers benny.i dont know about anyone else but in combat with multiple ships and enemies i wouldnt have time to micromanage pulling crew members off of stations and putting them on fire control or any other kind of repairs.its hard enough trying to keep your ships from constantly wanting to run into each other for no reason.just saying

Fair point. I agree actually it would be a bit much. Compared to Cold Waters I actually am an avid user of the 'pause' function hahaha. I often pause the game to ID vessels and plan necessary manoeuvres (like zig zags, deconfliction, etc).
Of course that isn't everyones thing so adding more to do would not be good.

That being said, I did make it sound more complicated then what I intended.

Basically its the same as the current system, but you have people as well as damage control that you put onto modules the same way it works now. It doesnt require much management in my mind unless you're desperate hahaha.

Eh. Come to think of it I think it was Battlestations that had a system similar to that. Its been a long long time (10 years) since Ive played that though.