Usage of Battleships

[SDIR]

In campaign, I've found once I can afford a carrier, battleships don't really have a use as carrier forces tend to strike harder and at longer range (not to mention more patrol effectiveness). Is there any point to battleships outside of shore bombardments?

[zOldBulldog]

(1) With the right force distribution you can afford a carrier from the beginning. As a matter of fact I ***start*** with 3 task forces and 3 Tambor subs: A carrier task force with 2 carriers 2 destroyers and an Atlanta CL. A screening task force that starts with 2 destroyers (later I add CLs and other fast stuff with better AA capabilities) that I move ahead of the carrier one. A cargo task force. 3 separate Tambor subs that I send to chokepoints, but they are slow so it takes them a while to become useful. This combo sets me up for an awesome start. With constant air scouting followed by attacks on what is detected I quickly clear the enemy scouts and pre-deployed enemies which sets me up for early control and preventing all enemy cargo reinforcements.

(2) A battleship task force (with 2 of each type of ship - with focus on good AA - minus the carriers) are great screening forces against air attacks and its DDs also clear subs. So far (knock on wood) all battles resulted in dead aircraft and I was able to repair all ships.

[Johan217]

A BB group's role is indeed to 1) screen a carrier group and 2) provide gunfire support
Of course in the game you might get away with an unescorted carrier group or just a few DDs, but where is the fun in that? :-)

[zOldBulldog]

Originally posted by Johan217:

A BB group's role is indeed to 1) screen a carrier group and 2) provide gunfire support
Of course in the game you might get away with an unescorted carrier group or just a few DDs, but where is the fun in that? :-)

I only let them be that light until I kill something... then immediately reinforce them :)

[dangiesey]

I'll provide a dissenting opinion and offer that I think that battleships can be extremely powerful. Of course carriers have a longer striking range and more flexibility, but battleships can truly dominate any surface engagement in which enemy battleships aren't present and are excellent for convoy interdiction and truly controlling the seas 24 hours a day.

The IJN is at such a gunnery deficit that I've found using both the Kongo and Yamato classes are really a must for overcoming the hordes of excellent US light and heavy cruisers. Also being an IJN player, I can attest to the fact that in the hands of a skilled player, the IJN doesn't have many good answers for a US fast BB.

I would therefore say that the purpose of battleships is to give you a tool to handily win lopsided engagements with minimal risk of loss to yourself.

[JazzObserver127]

I find battleships have a lot of what I like to call "stopping power", and what that means is amount of damage a ship can do to a ship and it's speed.

The main battery rounds of battleships can stop fast targets in their tracks and essentially trap them with you, and you don't even need direct hits to do the damage either. Near misses/straddles can do the job (example: A complete miss from a Yamato with all the rounds hitting in one place destroyed most if not all of the bow of destroyer). I even had encounter in the campaign with Washington and South Dakota that I called "Target Practice off Rendova" where I massacred an entire fleet of DDs with mostly near misses.

The "stopping power" that battleships can dish out negates the speed disadvantage compared to other ships because they can force the enemy ship to slow down to point where you can catch up, and there will be nothing that could truly diminish your own speed as long as there isn't anything bigger than a heavy cruiser.

And also, just having a battleship tips the favor in battle to yourself on so many levels, especially when you fight cruiser task forces.

[jotabe1984]

A 1 Kongo BB (BC to be honest) + 1 Takao + 2 nagara + 2 Yugumo + 2 extra DDs is an extremely efficient force for the IJN that Will delete those generic 2 CA 2 CL 2 DD forces with no problem and You can engage during daytime since gunnery and advantage will be on your side

A DD might get sunk once in a while but thats not a Big issue

[byepopejoy]

As the US player, I start by using a BB-centered Surface Action Group (SAG) as a "goalkeeper" near Guadalcanal to stop any IJN TFs that survive B-17 strikes from molesting my Guadalcanal invasion fleet.

Once the Invasion fleet is safely back at New Hebrides, I can usually rely on a CV TF south of Guadalcanal to keep the IJN at bay and can cycle ships through the SAG as needed. As IJN ships continue to sink, I add a carrier, then more BB forces, then submarines.

[SDIR]

These are some good points, never actually though of using a bb group for long patrols, I guess my next group will be a bb focused group.

[crazy rocker]

as IJN ive found a US BB taskforce with 2 BB in it. to counter that u will need BB as well. 1 Yamato should be enough to take out those US BB as long as u have some CA as well for extra firepower.
only prob with IJN is they dont have the spotting range as the AI has so u will be fired at long before u see them to fire back. so BB is a must to survive long enough to fire back.

[ждун]

Well its a historical fact that carriers ended the battleship age. Especially in the pacific war it was obvious that carriers ruled over battleships. Battleships became worthless against carriers. Basically because carriers can not just strike from much greater distance, but also because battleship groups are slow and just cannot catch up with the carrier group. A carrier can stay out of range and keep sending waves of bombers against the battleship group. The BB group cannot do much about it. BBs became completely obsolete.

[JazzObserver127]

Originally posted by ждун:

but also because battleship groups are slow and just cannot catch up with the carrier group.

You're probably talking about an enemy battleship group, but a escorting battleship doesn't need to keep up with a carrier at full sprint, just at a economical speed of 15 knots in the USN's case. And battleships have different speeds, so there's that.

[SDIR]

Originally posted by AWtruo127:

Originally posted by ждун:

but also because battleship groups are slow and just cannot catch up with the carrier group.

You're probably talking about an enemy battleship group, but a escorting battleship doesn't need to keep up with a carrier at full sprint, just at a economical speed of 15 knots in the USN's case. And battleships have different speeds, so there's that.

I suppose they would make better convoy escorts than carriers, letting the carriers hunt down enemy ships

[JazzObserver127]

There's a reason (or few) that the heavier ships defending a convoy are usually shadowing from afar.

[ждун]

Originally posted by AWtruo127:

Originally posted by ждун:

but also because battleship groups are slow and just cannot catch up with the carrier group.

You're probably talking about an enemy battleship group, but a escorting battleship doesn't need to keep up with a carrier at full sprint, just at a economical speed of 15 knots in the USN's case. And battleships have different speeds, so there's that.

no you get me wrong.

A Battleship is much slower then a carrier. Therefore a carrier group with light cruisers/destroyer escorts only can go much faster then a battleship group which cannot go faster then its battleship. Therefore a carrier can easily stay off the enemy battleship group and must not enter its gun range to sink the battleship. Unless it failed to detect it early enough but this is almost impossible.

[ждун]

Originally posted by AWtruo127:

There's a reason (or few) that the heavier ships defending a convoy are usually shadowing from afar.

The only reason why battleships at all participated in the pacific war is because they were already build in the age of battleships.

Before WWII battleships were the ultimate sea weapon. The bigger the guns, the thicker the armor the better. The slow speed didn't matter much because big guns can shoot further and kill anything before it can even come into its small gun range. The only thing that could challenge a BB was another bigger BB.

As with WWII sea aviation was a complete game changer. Because carriers proved themselves much more effective then BBs. Even the largest BB has no any chance against even a small carrier. The carrier will just stay out of BBs gun range and take no any damage at all while sending one air raid after another on the enemy BB and will very likely kill it. 1 on 1 a Battleship is no challenge for a carrier. Therefore with the end of WWII nobody continued building battleships. Their time was over - it was clear.