The Unbalanced Champs Are Hurting the Fun

[AKA_C33J]

I know if all the champs were the same then pick wouldn't matter, but they should all at least be at the same power level. Sitting here for 20 minutes while my whole team is losing because I got a bad matchup makes me never want to play again.

ETA: Removed examples, as they were causing conflation.

Edit 2: I never claimed any character was OP.

[kyuzou]

Zealot and Palulu aren't really the OP champs in this game... there are a lot more broken champs

[Garble]

Originally posted by kyuzou:

Zealot and Palulu aren't really the OP champs in this game... there are a lot more broken champs

Yeah...
Zealot even has easy counters available at the start.

[Zephyr]

Zealot's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness. Anything with multi-hit, or targetting the whole team will absolutely destroy it. Niels and Gang in particular, will do the trick Elemi, in a pinch. The health is shared between the 3 creatures, so hitting one is hitting them all, and because of that, it can go down very very fast. And once one dies, all do, obviously.
It's still a pretty good character if played well, but you have to be careful with what you are doing, and you should avoid picking him unless you know the opponent doesn't have way to shut it down. The reverse is also true.

Pululu is I think considered B tier. It's a bit harsh, as she's perfectly serviceable, although her cards are a bit expensive. As far as support go, there are way better options. Of course, she may shut down your gank attempts unless you can muster a lot of firepower when she's here, but most of the time, your attacks will outpace her shields, so she's only delaying the inevitable, and not actually doing damage. This proves to be a very big inconvenience during mandatory teamfights. Meanwhile you supports that will add better value to your team: Tigerboy and his stun + capacity to isolate(you can zone Pululu out of a fight entirely). Dylan who will cram drugs into your characters up to the gills to make them scale like crazy the longer the game goes. The harpy who inflict the fragile debuff on opponent so they take more damage. The actual tank shieldbot who instead of shielding others, just make itself super resilient an takes all the aggro(and he can actually attack).

And of course, there is the good ol adage of "If you don't like them, just ban them". There are some heroes like that which may not be particularly strong, or threatening but you may just not want to deal with because of their mechanics.

[AKA_C33J]

The two examples I chose are not the specific problem.

[King Roald]

i woudl like when the champs get buffed nerfed in seasons or mid season as well also for items

[parent child bowl]

If you get a bad matchup for your whole team, you are doing something wrong.

Counterpick the enemy team. Zealot is a really bad first pick since there are quite a few champions available from the beginning of the game that turn his three attacks against him.

[Axariel]

Originally posted by AKA_C33J:

The two examples I chose are not the specific problem.

Then it doesn't help anyone else understand the issue.

[AKA_C33J]

Originally posted by Axariel:

Originally posted by AKA_C33J:

The two examples I chose are not the specific problem.

Then it doesn't help anyone else understand the issue.

I'm sorry that you don't comprehend.

[kyuzou]

haha this guy is so butthurt that he sux at the game its quite funny.
i love these posters! :D

[AKA_C33J]

Originally posted by kyuzou:

haha this guy is so butthurt that he sux at the game its quite funny.
i love these posters! :D

This is even less helpful than your first reply.

[hairlessOrphan]

Originally posted by AKA_C33J:

This is even less helpful than your first reply.

Ignoring that particular post, other people dropped some helpful feedback earlier. But also, Zealot and Palulu aren't particularly OP, so using them as examples doesn't help very much. They are both very counterable, but you have to do it in draft. Or to put it another way, you can lose the drafting phase hard enough to get rolled, in this game. That's ... a good thing.

Anyway, if they aren't a problem, then who is? It's ... unhelpful to say, "some characters are OP, but I'm not gonna tell you who, instead I'm gonna talk about two entirely different heroes." List who you're having trouble with, and then people can help.

[ＫＩＮＥ]

Originally posted by AKA_C33J:

I played the beta/trial and I REALLY want to love this game and it's disappointing. There is very little you can do during matches (nothing you can do during fights), which are mandatory to sit through at a glacial crawl with no speed options outside of the team fight cutscenes. The characters are extremely unbalanced to the point that the game is punishing, not in difficulty, but in that the act of playing the game simply isn't continuously enjoyable and in most cases is just bad. I feel bad saying it, but I feel bad playing the game, too.

Thanks for the downvote.

in summary:
1. you dislike turn based game
2. you dislike asymmetrical teams

so why play / buy the game in the first place lol.

[The Former]

Welcome to MOBAs, where OP champions carry games. It's that very thing that helps make this game feel like an actual MOBA. It's an unfortunate reality, but a reality of the genre all the same that certain very powerful characters will often win games just by being picked.

Of course this can be offset by player skill, both in this game and in real life, but the gap has to be pretty substantial and there comes a point in the upper leagues where the competition is always pretty tight.

[Xuande]

Zealot is OP, but not because of the assumed carry role. That he can do that is an added bonus, but if you let Zealot be counterpicked repeatedly, he's still good.

Most of his "checks" excel in full teamfights. You don't have to rely on full teamfights. You can instead rely on his very underpriced poke/push, having 1-2 cards in his base kit that read "move up to 2 hexes, then hit a turret 3 times or lifesteal an enemy hero 3 times, also draw a known card, for the low cost of 1". That by itself is a game defining advantage, one that can't be counterpicked in the ban/pick phase.

While there will be rulesets where that advantage is not as great, most of the time being able to heavily damage turrets at will is busted compared to the price of similar and less reliable alternatives like Hail.

Zealot also itemizes extremely well if certain items are in the pool (anything that gives temporary Attack, rewards hero count, rewards hero death, or revives on death), but should all those be missing you can still spec for durability and play him as a pusher or bruiser in small-scale fights.

---

I don't know what case was being made for Palulu being OP, but in my experience I'd define her as "fine", middle of the pack. She asks a lot in teambuilding and the payoff for that is merely decent.

---

A certain level of balance is needed to have varied play and not hose the AI for not forcing the meta, but perfect balance is also bad. I do think Zealot is too good, but mainly off of his 1-cost card being the centerpiece of his kit, not because he's too strong as a carry. He'd still be strong if it cost 2 or 3 instead, while eliminating the nonsense he's capable of when paired with certain cost-reducing traits, ones that make it easy to poke into double initiate off of only 8 cost, without further help.

I also think most of the existing heroes are close enough to balanced that further planned content should come first before doing a major balance pass. Let that happen after we've gotten the new heroes/etc.

[AKA_C33J]

Originally posted by Ärlig, Häckriddare:

Welcome to MOBAs, where OP champions carry games. It's that very thing that helps make this game feel like an actual MOBA. It's an unfortunate reality, but a reality of the genre all the same that certain very powerful characters will often win games just by being picked.

Of course this can be offset by player skill, both in this game and in real life, but the gap has to be pretty substantial and there comes a point in the upper leagues where the competition is always pretty tight.

This game isn't a MOBA.