Why can Deviant Monster can attack twice in a Round?

[VaeliusNoctu]

Hello,

im in Elders Lair Hard 8 and the Silverwing Naragacuga attakcs 2x in one Turn.
And no he is not enraged. He makes himself 100% Evade and then a AOE Attack that reduce 90% of my Groups HP.

Im must Heal then my Group and in the Next Turn he makes Double AOE Attack. Its Pure ENG if that Fight is winable.

In my eyes thats bad Balancing or a Bug. He makes every Turn this Cakuum Explosion. Even with constant canceling moves comes the time where you cant canlce anymore and its over.
Its a Buggy mess that fight.


Greetz

VN

[Linguistically Inept]

vacuum blast is a typed aoe

you double attack into a head to head and it cancels the action

i cant believe someone is at deviants and doesnt know how double attacks work (actually thats a lie; ive played pug co op and ive encountered 3 players at 8/9* that have no clue how the battle system works; one of them just a couple of hours ago); but im going to explain it anyway

if two entities are targeting each other with typed (speed, power or technical; are types) attacks/skills then a head to head will occur (power>tech>speed>power), the loser takes more damage and the winner takes less damage

if a monster and a rider (or a rider and a hunter) are both using the same type of *single target* attack (monsties/hunters can use skills to trigger as long as they arent aoe; riders have to use normal attacks) when one of them is going to trigger and win a head to head they instead perform a double attack; this cancels the enemies action completely

SW.narga is base technical; this means when you first enter the fight it will only use technical attacks; so use power attacks to double attack and it wont be able to do much

when it enrages it changes to speed (this is the standard attack pattern format; they use one type until they enrage, whilst enraged they have a different type of attack they use... and if they have a third form then same deal theyll switch to the third type) so you use technical attacks; this wont cancel all of its attacks because whilst enraged it has 2 actions/turn; but it will cancel enough that you shouldnt have to worry

theres other methods to avoid aoes (evasive riff and kinship skills); but honestly if you dont understand how double attacks work i think itll be a waste trying to explain it to you

[VaeliusNoctu]

Lol, i know how to double attack. But instantly after the double attack he makes another vakuum Blast. He makes that every round.

The only way i killed him was use upgraded lighning element weapons, pinc rathian armor maxed and all elemental ress +4, divine +4 amulet.

So i can hardly survive this vakuum blast every turn. But i never have bevore and or after this atm such a fight. He uses every turn only vakuum blast.

I double attacked him with my monsti and cancel his attacks and in his next turn he uses vakuum blast again. But he sliped trough my defenses often enough.

I think it must my NPC Mate if he is the target of the Vakuum Blast attack (speed tech) and uses Power to attack Silver Nara, Nara gets trough his defense and can trigger the Vakuum Blast. I cant Double attack him if my Mate is the Target and use the wrong tech.

But either it happens too that he dont attack any in my Group and after i did my move he uses Vakuum Blast twice bevore i get my turn.

Also massive Damage and Massive Defense and he is killable. But Luck is still needed.

[Shark]

There is no real luck needed i dont think i've lost even a single heart to Silverwind yet. Sounds to me like youre just underlvled/geared.

[calango2077]

[VaeliusNoctu]

Originally posted by Shark:

There is no real luck needed i dont think i've lost even a single heart to Silverwind yet. Sounds to me like youre just underlvled/geared.

That can be. Im Level 75 my Armor was Max but my Wpns only around 1-2.
I killed him but it was cranc. I mean i must use a Tank Equip to beat him.
Maybe i try that fight again later. I only know he can trigger the Vakuum Blast a lot less then bevore. I thought that was Luck.
The Elders after him was a lot easier.

[Crusader]

I’m not at post post game yet but honestly his double attack is just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ same as bloodbaths non typed aoe move. They hit way too hard and I usually have to just get 1 shot by them just to win the fight.

The rest of the deviants are pretty easy so far though. Especially dreadqueen.

[VaeliusNoctu]

I wondered myself that my Bloodbath Diablos and Silver Narga do not nearby that Huge Amount of Damage. Maybe the Monsters there are realy High in Level.

[Soulgain]

I assume it's about Special Elder's Lair.
Same thing happened to me, I was level 76 or 77 at the time, and Silverwing just went for double AoE, that was the last nail in my coffin, wiping the entire party. Felt quite funky. I sure have won during my 2nd encounter, and then I haven't lost a single fight after this one, including Fatalis.
But just as you feel about Elders after, they were easier for me than this pack of Deviants in Special Elders Lair 8.

[VaeliusNoctu]

Same again with Nergigante. I double attacked him and canceled its AOE attacks. I have 2 speed, Power and Tactic Monstis in my Team.

But Bevore my next Turn he comes first and double AOE. After he doe that Multiple times and i died. Seems if you are to good in beat him, Nergi gets allways first strike. Up to the Point where he starts his Double AOE i can Play tactical and be able to Plan and carefully rip him off. Thats meh!

I tryd both Tacticts dont use Hearth Up Items and double attack/cancel him. So i die.
Use Hearths and to Hold me alive. But Double AOEs every Turn finishes me. After x Rounds he starts Double AOEs without Stoping anymore.

Now after i Testet it with the Best Maxed out Tank Armor and Thunder Weapons (not maxed) i can only say its not beatable without Luck. I tryd it Multiple times. Im Sure if i try it again and get RNG some more Crits and will Beat him.

Im sure if you are overleveled then its easie for sure. Its the same as bevore with Silverwing. But if im not wrong not many Players have level 75. Normal is Level 40-50 after done the Story maybe less.

I can be but i dont think that this Fights are thought for Level 85+. If yes, that would Explain something. Maybe with Level 85+ its Possible to Survive a Double AOE. Or Kill them (Silverwing and Nergi) bevore this both went crazy.

For me it looks like a Bug or a bad Balanzing if not intended for very High Level Players.
But if this is thought for High Level Players 85+ i wonder why all the other Monstis was so easy. I even killed them with Weapons that not there weakspot. I even Killed Kirin with a Ice Weapon if im not remember wrong.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by VaeliusNoctu:

Hello,

im in Elders Lair Hard 8 and the Silverwing Naragacuga attakcs 2x in one Turn.
And no he is not enraged. He makes himself 100% Evade and then a AOE Attack that reduce 90% of my Groups HP.

Im must Heal then my Group and in the Next Turn he makes Double AOE Attack. Its Pure ENG if that Fight is winable.

In my eyes thats bad Balancing or a Bug. He makes every Turn this Cakuum Explosion. Even with constant canceling moves comes the time where you cant canlce anymore and its over.
Its a Buggy mess that fight.


Greetz

VN

You're supposed to use evasion riff with hunting horn that gives your whole party full evasion. If you don't see a target line on the ground for a head to head, he's using the buff + vacuum slash, so be sure to use evasion riff when there's no line on the ground for a head to head. Or, since vacuum slash is a type attack, and not a yellow one, it's possible to double attack this move after the monster uses his buff.

After that, you can double attack or head to head, or some combination of double attacking + evasion riff. You really need evasion riff against these post game monsters that attack twice per turn. It at least guarantees you're not gonna get creamed by 2 big aoes in the same turn.

Another option is to use aptonoth's kinship attack. It even works against fatalis.

The hardest possible counter to these monsters who attack twice per turn is aptonoth's kinship attack. The 2nd best counter would be evasion riff. 3rd best would be any other kinship attack. Duramboros HH is the best one with the evasion riff song on it. Especially pairs well if you're using bloodbath diablos armor with non-element XL, because the HH is non-element.

Against certain monsters, if I don't see a line on the ground for a head to head, I'm throwing up evasion riff that turn for sure. For some monsters, the first time they do that they're merely using a self buff, but the next time they do that it will for sure be a yellow attack with no HtH target line on the ground that's probably a big AOE. Some of these fights you can win and take little to no damage with properly timed evasion riffs.

But, TL;DR git aptonoth (for kinship attack that topples the monster and resets their state), and git Evasion Riff (full party evasion) = GGs to any of this game's challenges. Fight fire with fire, counter OP with OP, and cheese with cheese.

[AH-1 Cobra]

A good attack for to use against silverwind is bolt eater, which is a lightning + tech type. I put it on my Rajang, and he uses that when he goes head to head, or when he needs to heal some HP back. My Rajang claps Silverwind butt cheeks pretty hard, because he's got power and tech moves to counter Silverwind's tech and speed (enrage) state. For extra ownage, ambush the silverwind, and have Rajang use Ultra Voltage (from Thunderlord) on the first turn. Silverwind's rectal cavity is just bursting with fissures after Rajang is done rutting it out.

[Cyrus]

So lol? If you built your team correctly those double attacks will do a max of 30% of your hp when mounted. That’s how your supposed to fight those bosses.

Make a tank nerg and just ride, you always have 3 rounds to fully charge it. Then hit into it. By the time the rage ends [always 3 rounds] then use the ultimate.

Latterly no way to loose to them.

[DoEFotGS]

Vacuum blast is a speed move (blue). It means that it can participate in rock-paper-scissors system. It even must be targeted to someone to be performed and it's possible to cancel this move twice in a round if both times Narga chose different targets and this targets use green moves to win HtH. But it must be actions that can't sum into double attack. For example: green basic monstie attack and green charge tackle of GS.

Also, when you win any HtH - you can't die, game cancels any AoE effects on attacks (only faced target will receive retaliation damage) and your character forced to survive with 1 HP left, even you already at 1 HP.
To compare: if you get draw in HtH vs Vacuum Blast - all team will be damaged and all of them can be killed.

One more thing: then you ride you monstie in battle - you can't die. Rider become immune and all damage will be receive by your monstie. In that case if you get fatal blow - you will be dismount and your monstie will be left with 1 HP.

And kinship attack also cancel monsters action or delay it for next turn.

[VaeliusNoctu]

As already explained, this is not the case. I canceled this attack. But then the next round comes and Nergi or Silver were the first to take their turn and before it was my turn to take an action, they made the AOE attack twice. That costs me two hearts because with two AOE attacks I and my Monsti and also my NPC Roberto die.

After that I can do two things:

1. Cancel the next vacuum blast attack. Then the same thing happens again. I cancle the attack and he comes first in the next round. Before I can do an Aktion, he makes two AOE attacks. One heart = game over.

2. Healing hearts. This gives me two hearts. Two AOE attacks mean me and my monstie are dead = game over.

So you can definitely die after winning an HtH because then the opponent comes (only with Nergi and Silver with Blood Bath Diablos I can't remember) first in the next round and makes his two AOE before you can make your move as a player in the new round. Like a first strike. That never happened before and afterwards. And even with Nergi and Silver only in Elders Lair Hard.

@Cyrus
I'm level 75 and my Monsti all have Nutrients 10/10 and full bingos.

You can't ride a monster all the time, either. But even if that only prevents one game over. Then the Monsti stands there with one HP point and Kinship is so low that it takes until the next ride. I can then change the monster. Anyway, then the AOE attack comes twice before I can take another action.

As soon as Silver or Nergi start their fast AOEs you are dead. My trick to Kill them was to kill them quickly. It seems that Nergi and Silver go crazy after a certain number of Turns. As far as I can tell, only at Elders Lair Hard.

I've farmed Nergi and Silver before and never had any problems.

[XhanbaoX]

because they cheat