Hammers are garbage?

[!?!]

So you have to win head to heads to gain charges to use special attacks that also cost tons of kinship for some reason so you can do bonus damage if the enemy has a status effect on them that the hammer can't apply which then also consumes the status effect.

The monster never targets you? You never get to do anything other than regular attacks.
You have charge but just did a special attack and have 0 kinship? Tough luck.
You think you can just switch between a bow and a hammer for status effects? Have fun rolling the dice on getting any charges before the status runs out because they're gone if you put the hammer away.
You're chasing sleep? Haha, battle buddy go brrr.

The enemy is immune to status? Well you just don't get to do your thing at all then.
Also the status is gone after the attack so enjoy sucking the para you finally managed to apply out of a monster before its turn. Hope you weren't counting skipped turns or poison damage or anything.

How does this have anything to do with hammers in monster hunter?
Hammers have always been big sticks that you charge up and then apply to the monsters face and that's that but now it's this setup heavy abomination that doesn't even work at all unless you construct an entire team of monsties around it. What the hell.

[Sammy]

Escrito originalmente por Yian Yan:

Escrito originalmente por Raemnant:

Even the Hunting Horn sucks, because items are usually just as good if not better. I was underwhelmed at the healing skills, no use in using damage boosts if I already have them, and Blast is just a sonic bomb. Team status cleansing is good, and the defense boost is rather nice, but none of it is amazing

I found the defense boost rather underwhelming. My allied rider took a hit from a particularly nasty monster and was left with 5 HP so I was like "Alright, he's using a Potion on himself, I'll up his defense." And then he ate that same attack and had 8 HP. Not exactly a stellar improvement.

Whereas lowering the enemy's attack in that same fight took a different attack that was an overkill one shot on that same ally and made it survivable.

On a note of really underwhelming weapons: when do you even use the Gunlance? Shelling prevents double attacks so in any situation you could use it you'd be better off with forcing a double attack and any monster scary enough to merit using the attack seals on is immune to the damn thing.

Shelling does a good chunk of damage and also gives a big boost to Kinship guage, especially the 8 shell one. You can then choose to use Wyrmfire for a bit lesser Kinship super while also letting your monster go in for their own attack.
I couldn't say how useful it is in comparison per se but I do like the constant ammo building into big Kin gains and either Ride or Wyrmblast whereas Bow is very built around deciding to go for your charges or your coatings at the cost of kinship, It's also just the games other defensive weapon out of Sword and Shield. And I just kinda find it fun.

I did like Bow but outside of Rapid, some of it feels a bit eh? Like at least in the bows I had Pierce didn't feel it did as much damage to parts as I'd like for a 2 turn thing and Spread is a bit situational. Rapid is pretty good tho.

Regardless I can always switch back to Bow if I want instead later. I do like how easy it is to swap between weapon types as you progress and make more stuff if you want.

[archonsod]

Escrito originalmente por Nito:

yet again you need to calculate if it is going to do a AOE, dive in the ground, fly, charge itself

Which you're presumably doing with any weapon, given that's very much the central mechanism of the combat system. I'm not entirely sure how far you'd be able to get in the game if you completely ignore the whole rock, paper scissors combat.

or you know make the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ charge like the bow or the greatsword.....but no let's make a charge depend on the enemy...

Like they do with kinship attacks?

Escrito originalmente por Yian Yan:

On a note of really underwhelming weapons: when do you even use the Gunlance? Shelling prevents double attacks so in any situation you could use it you'd be better off with forcing a double attack and any monster scary enough to merit using the attack seals on is immune to the damn thing.

It's more of a situational weapon. Having multiple hits in the one attack is useful when you have certain bonuses or effects (like when you've downed the enemy and every hit is a crit), though the same applies to it's multiple target attacks (best used to spread the love, like poison, around).
I suspect it's main benefit is the Kinship boost from HtH though; in some situations that basically gives you an L1 kinship attack every three turns or so.

[Nito]

Escrito originalmente por Dave Mongoose:

1) Attack patterns are really important to learn; way more important than whether or not you're getting to use your weapon skills. A monster's pattern only changes when their state does (e.g. enraged or flying).
2) Most monsters will have a pattern to their special attacks, too. If you don't see an attack line, it's going to be a special of some sort depending on their current state and what parts are still intact.
3) You have 5 / 6 slots in single player - there's really no reason not to bring one of each type because that's the most important thing to cover. Apart from maybe wanting specific field skills, there's no good reason to bring a party that's not balanced.
4) Underlevelled monsters get up to 500% bonus XP so just having one in your party for a few fights will get them caught up very quickly.

1) Not a matter of learning or not it is a matter that as after you learned the pattern it is useless to use charge because A) you will double attack that already deals massive part damage or B) you already killed so no tension and every area has 20 monsters or more going from hth in every fight blindly is useless unless you really want loot from one monster and suicidal on pvp

2) Thing that you won't get a charge, and if you actually use the charge you will get some heavy damage

3) Field Skills....being locked with Ratha.....

4) And still without skill variation....and almost a whole region for them to catch up....

Escrito originalmente por archonsod:

Which you're presumably doing with any weapon, given that's very much the central mechanism of the combat system. I'm not entirely sure how far you'd be able to get in the game if you completely ignore the whole rock, paper scissors combat.

Like they do with kinship attacks?

I suspect it's main benefit is the Kinship boost from HtH though; in some situations that basically gives you an L1 kinship attack every three turns or so.

1) You can just use counter with sword shield, observe the field with charge or arc shot, use buff/debuff with hunting and all those skills are completely independent

2)Kinship on it's core is a completely different concept it is rider and monstie making synergy the hammer is going harder but somehow you have to win a duel that is completely contrary to even how the hammer work on MH that you only charge and go when there is an opening

3) Get a kinship amulet or armor and you can basically charge the kinship gauge in 2 turns

[Nito]

And to prove my point just doing a shrouded Nerscylla

for finding weak points changed to the hammer because i need to cause blunt damage

it does Technical damage I, my anajath and Cheval did power attack but Rathi such a good boy gone with speed attack so lost a turn to charge and the Nerscylla again attacked Rathi that is using a speed attack again

and now cheval do a technical attack.....3 turns without the chance to do a single charge
gets enraged does a techseal 4 turns

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Retarded just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ retarded weapon designing

[Linguistically Inept]

hammers arent garbo because theyre bad; theyre garbo because horn is *chefs kiss*

[Raemnant]

You know, after some use with Hammer, I'm starting to like it. I just ignore the Chaser skills, and just go for winning HtH and brutalize them with Spinning Meteor

Its crazy strong, but the problem with this is that those chaser skills are 70% of what Hammers are in this game, and that 70% is pretty bad

[Unknownsurfin]

Escrito originalmente por Janfin:

Escrito originalmente por mute:

Yikes well you're entitled to having a horrendous opinion I guess. This games gameplay is insanely good, weapons included.

It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, like your opinion

Its not an opinion.
Its a fact the wepon system is horrible specificlly wepon skills.

[Linguistically Inept]

Escrito originalmente por archonsod:

Having multiple hits in the one attack is useful when you have certain bonuses or effects (like when you've downed the enemy and every hit is a crit),

i highly doubt it works like this; for a start no aoe can crit... which when you also realise that all of an attack crits or none of it does makes me think crit rolls (and therefore likely application rolls) are done once per action; not per hit

[!?!]

Escrito originalmente por Paige 404:

Tell me you don't know how head to heads work without telling me you don't know how head to heads work.

I get hammer charge easy, because I know how to double attack. It's attacking my monstie?

It's not.
It's not attacking anything sometimes.
Aoe and random target moves do that.
So if tigrex just decides to toss a bunch of rocks, that's that.

[Paige 404]

Escrito originalmente por !?!:

Escrito originalmente por Paige 404:

Tell me you don't know how head to heads work without telling me you don't know how head to heads work.

I get hammer charge easy, because I know how to double attack. It's attacking my monstie?

It's not.
It's not attacking anything sometimes.
Aoe and random target moves do that.
So if tigrex just decides to toss a bunch of rocks, that's that.

Cool, that's when I spend those hammer charges. I already spoke about this. I took down royal tigrex back at level 17, because I know how to work this battle system.

[Raemnant]

Escrito originalmente por Paige 404:

Escrito originalmente por !?!:

It's not.
It's not attacking anything sometimes.
Aoe and random target moves do that.
So if tigrex just decides to toss a bunch of rocks, that's that.

Cool, that's when I spend those hammer charges. I already spoke about this. I took down royal tigrex back at level 17, because I know how to work this battle system.

I took him down at lvl 12

[StarborneSVT]

Escrito originalmente por !?!:

So you have to win head to heads to gain charges to use special attacks that also cost tons of kinship for some reason so you can do bonus damage if the enemy has a status effect on them that the hammer can't apply which then also consumes the status effect.

The monster never targets you? You never get to do anything other than regular attacks.
You have charge but just did a special attack and have 0 kinship? Tough luck.
You think you can just switch between a bow and a hammer for status effects? Have fun rolling the dice on getting any charges before the status runs out because they're gone if you put the hammer away.
You're chasing sleep? Haha, battle buddy go brrr.

The enemy is immune to status? Well you just don't get to do your thing at all then.
Also the status is gone after the attack so enjoy sucking the para you finally managed to apply out of a monster before its turn. Hope you weren't counting skipped turns or poison damage or anything.

How does this have anything to do with hammers in monster hunter?
Hammers have always been big sticks that you charge up and then apply to the monsters face and that's that but now it's this setup heavy abomination that doesn't even work at all unless you construct an entire team of monsties around it. What the hell.

So basically they aren't trash. They are only trash if you don't know how to use the games mechanics. Which is very easy to do. I won't explain as many others have explained and some users refuse to accept the plain simple evidence/explanation given.

[Linguistically Inept]

Escrito originalmente por !?!:

Escrito originalmente por Paige 404:

Tell me you don't know how head to heads work without telling me you don't know how head to heads work.

I get hammer charge easy, because I know how to double attack. It's attacking my monstie?

It's not.
It's not attacking anything sometimes.
Aoe and random target moves do that.
So if tigrex just decides to toss a bunch of rocks, that's that.

not quite

untyped attacks do that; tigrexs rock throw isnt random target; its just untyped and thus doesnt trigger head to heads

similarly you can head to head cancel enemy aoes with a double attack (as long as it has a type; pow/speed/tech); this is easy to test against basarios/gravious

that said; if your monstie uses an aoe; you cant trigger a double attack from it (again; even if its typed)

another intresting thing regarding aoes; they cant crit and they dont deal part damage

[AH-1 Cobra]

The problem for hammer is that Hunting Horn exists. You got stuff like Evasion Riff to full party dodge nukes, and Negate Ailments which is useful against monsters who spam ailments. You got 3 slots, you could technically bring hammer and HH, but I like bringing 1 weapon of each damage type along, and a HH with Evasion Riff is pretty standard.

[Neosonic97]

Escrito originalmente por Nito:

Not exactly easy with a monster changing patterns 3 times in 1 fight

And those changes are all clearly telegraphed. It is that easy. Oftentimes I have more Hammer Charge than I know what to do with because I know the Monster's patterns and how to abuse them. If anything, my main mistake using Hammer is not using Meteor Hammer/Spinning Meteor more.

Let's take Glavenus, as an example, shall we?

When it charges fire, it switches from using Power Attacks to Speed Attacks. When its Tail Blade heats up, it uses Technical Attacks. When its tail blade cools down, it'll switch back to power.

Or Rajang. It uses exclusively power charge and power attacks until it enrages, at which point it uses one of three Aura skills, one corresponding to each type of attack. It'll then spam whatever type of attack it used for three turns, getting two attacks per turn. The second attack of the third turn will always be Thundercrack.

Monster Patterns are easily discernible since even the pattern changes are fixed behind certain conditions.

Also, if an enemy is targeting you or your Monstie, that's easy Double Attack Material. If you're teamed up with a Hunter, this is more often than not. You can even automatically tell if a monster is targeting you with an attack that can trigger Head-to-Heads.