When riding a monstie are armour perks and talisman still active?

[Vexillarius]

Its seems that atleast the talisman must still be active because you have bonding talisman that increases kinship damage so that could only work if it was active when riding a monstie. But what about armour perks? Then do talisman bonus stack like crit XL? If your monster has crit XL and you have it on you talisman does your monster get 32% bonus? Anybody know the answer to these questions?

[HeraldOfOpera]

It honestly makes so little sense not to just go for the Kinship Attack immediately that I don't think anybody has ever bothered to check.

[Vexillarius]

Originally posted by HeraldOfOpera:

It honestly makes so little sense not to just go for the Kinship Attack immediately that I don't think anybody has ever bothered to check.

Kinship attack drains all your energy. Its exactly what i did all through the campaign, but when you get to post game and it gets a little more challenging you almost never use your kinship attack at all unless it is to finish something off.

[Dwyriel]

Just did the test with a self-heal talisman to make it pretty obvious (monstie ofc didn't have self-heal, just rider) and it doesn't not share, I thought it'd work like this but tested it anyway to make sure.
Skills that increase kinship skill damage goes toward a "shared stat", meaning you do not share the skill itself with your monstie, game will check for it when you use kinship skill and that's it.

Originally posted by VEX84:

Kinship attack drains all your energy. Its exactly what i did all through the campaign, but when you get to post game and it gets a little more challenging you almost never use your kinship attack at all unless it is to finish something off.

There's a lot of problems that come when you're mounted as well:
1 - You can't deal with double attacks (enemies that attack twice per turn, not performing a double attack with your monstie/battle buddy)
2 - You only have 1 action per turn (so if you have to heal someone else or yourself to keep mounted, you won't deal any damage that turn)
3 - Your damage is overall going to be lower than if you weren't mounted
4 - You're still limited by kinship gauge, so trying to spam skills will only work if you keep winning HtHs
5 - Can't double attack with your Partner to increase kinship gauge/level and kinship level barely making a difference in kinship skill damage (not very strong points, so I'll leave them together)

And the only benefits I can see not to just use kinship skill right away is:
1 - You mounted early and want to wait 1-2 turns to cancel an enemy attack
2 - You know you will die and don't want to lose a heart and just get dismounted instead.

Overall doesn't seem worth to me at all, even against the strongest monsters in the game.

[Nihrahk]

Originally posted by HeraldOfOpera:

It honestly makes so little sense not to just go for the Kinship Attack immediately that I don't think anybody has ever bothered to check.

To me going instantly into a kinship attack like the AI doesn't make sense tbh when you can do so much more if you build it up. Going into one instantly is purely situational like when a monster is about to use a neutral attack that would one shot or do a lot of damage to you otherwise.

Although if you're in post game, using a kinship to prevent an attack like that usually just delays it, and if you know it's gonna one shot you're better off just riding and eating the hit since you can't die when you're riding. When I fought any of the deviants and elder dragons that have come from these updates, I never bothered using my kinship attacks or riding for that matter. The reason is simple, as I would lose more damage since I would need to charge up that meter up all over again.

[Vexillarius]

Originally posted by Dwyriel:

Just did the test with a self-heal talisman to make it pretty obvious (monstie ofc didn't have self-heal, just rider) and it doesn't not share, I thought it'd work like this but tested it anyway to make sure.
Skills that increase kinship skill damage goes toward a "shared stat", meaning you do not share the skill itself with your monstie, game will check for it when you use kinship skill and that's it.

Originally posted by VEX84:

Kinship attack drains all your energy. Its exactly what i did all through the campaign, but when you get to post game and it gets a little more challenging you almost never use your kinship attack at all unless it is to finish something off.

There's a lot of problems that come when you're mounted as well:
1 - You can't deal with double attacks (enemies that attack twice per turn, not performing a double attack with your monstie/battle buddy)
2 - You only have 1 action per turn (so if you have to heal someone else or yourself to keep mounted, you won't deal any damage that turn)
3 - Your damage is overall going to be lower than if you weren't mounted
4 - You're still limited by kinship gauge, so trying to spam skills will only work if you keep winning HtHs
5 - Can't double attack with your Partner to increase kinship gauge/level and kinship level barely making a difference in kinship skill damage (not very strong points, so I'll leave them together)

And the only benefits I can see not to just use kinship skill right away is:
1 - You mounted early and want to wait 1-2 turns to cancel an enemy attack
2 - You know you will die and don't want to lose a heart and just get dismounted instead.

Overall doesn't seem worth to me at all, even against the strongest monsters in the game.

I thought about doing the self heal test but because it only really i supposed to heal rider it probably wouldn't be to reliable since only your monstie takes damage when riding. I just really struggle to see any good reason to ride your monster in 99% of situations. I thought maybe if your monstie got your armour/talisman perks that may offset how awful riding your monstie is. But it really doesn't seem like it does.

[Dwyriel]

Originally posted by VEX84:

I thought about doing the self heal test but because it only really i supposed to heal rider it probably wouldn't be to reliable since only your monstie takes damage when riding. I just really struggle to see any good reason to ride your monster in 99% of situations. I thought maybe if your monstie got your armour/talisman perks that may offset how awful riding your monstie is. But it really doesn't seem like it does.

Ye, I understand. They made mounting almost useless in this game, Not saying it's terrible, it was ultra useful pre-last boss and still sometimes useful to skip a monster turn or something, but mounting to deal damage or something is not good.

If I may be honest, I prefer the way it is right now, gameplay-wise at least, because you'rew not forced to mount or you lose damage and increase death risk, there's a good(ish) balance I think, they could buff it a little to make it more appealing but nothing extreme.

[Zektronic]

To actually answer the question presented. I have the Quick skill on my Armor and my Monstie lacks the quick gene. Yet Quick still activates from time to time while riding and I even get to attack before Kinship Skills can trigger. So yes Armor skills and Talisman can still work, but are extremely limited in use. Skills like Quick or Soul Kinship do, while stat related skills like the mentioned Crit Up XL are for individual use only and don't trigger when riding.

Also unrelated comment but Dragon Palamute is one of the better monsters to mount and manually control due to the lack of speed Dragon attacks in the game as a whole. Just slap Crit Up, Crit healing, Vicious, and Dragon Attack Up, onto it and you got yourself a real monster.

[DoEFotGS]

Originally posted by VEX84:

but when you get to post game and it gets a little more challenging you almost never use your kinship attack at all unless it is to finish something off.

It's not.

Kinship attack cancel enemy current turn and this delayed to next turn or just skip his most powerful actions. And still dealt the damage. Kinship is important part of combat system in any point of game progression.

[Vexillarius]

Originally posted by Zektronic:

To actually answer the question presented. I have the Quick skill on my Armor and my Monstie lacks the quick gene. Yet Quick still activates from time to time while riding and I even get to attack before Kinship Skills can trigger. So yes Armor skills and Talisman can still work, but are extremely limited in use. Skills like Quick or Soul Kinship do, while stat related skills like the mentioned Crit Up XL are for individual use only and don't trigger when riding.

Also unrelated comment but Dragon Palamute is one of the better monsters to mount and manually control due to the lack of speed Dragon attacks in the game as a whole. Just slap Crit Up, Crit healing, Vicious, and Dragon Attack Up, onto it and you got yourself a real monster.

Cool thx,thats handy info. Im actrually doing a very similar build with a stygian zinogre but i put thousand blades and ruinous strike to counter the weaknesses of dragon type and bleed for obvious reasons. I was wondering how to optimise the gear i was wearing to make th ebuild work even better.

[Vexillarius]

Originally posted by DoEFotGS:

Originally posted by VEX84:

but when you get to post game and it gets a little more challenging you almost never use your kinship attack at all unless it is to finish something off.

It's not.

Kinship attack cancel enemy current turn and this delayed to next turn or just skip his most powerful actions. And still dealt the damage. Kinship is important part of combat system in any point of game progression.

There are much more powerful ways to counter the enemies most powerful attacks that let you optimise your dps. Thousand blades and a charged slash can let you hit for 6 to 7k and only use half your kinship bar and still allow you to cast evasion riff the next turn to let your whole team not take damage from a powerful attack. Using kinship attacks to cancel attacks is total noob sauce mate.
Oh and that example doesn't even include the extra 2k damage that you get from thousand blades itself as well.