Even with the buff, Cell still feels the same (Weak AF)

[Ao Bai Gaming]

TL;DR: They treated a symptom of the problem with Cell instead of worrying about and fixing what was actually wrong with him.

He's able to evolve faster right, which means you'll outscale the survivors exponentially So, what was the problem? For one, the Evo amount is still absolute crap and doesn't make nearly as much of a difference as I'd have expected. Buu requires 3 civvies/survivors in order to get to LVL3 (+20 Turn into Candy), while Cell is still stuck with having to find 4 civvies or 3 survivors, and that's me with +20 Life Absorbtion. I wouldn't mind Cell being overall weaker than the other raiders if they would actually make him the fastest evolving raider in the roster, but Frieza still wins by a massive margin. Namekians, taking damage, even the Survivors getting a wish??? Guarantees a LVL3 in almost every circumstance that isn't the Frieza player literally having such a skill issue that they can't make plays with the easiest Raider of them all.

His Ki blasts are still objectively worse than every other Raider at literally every stage. LVL2 Cell's SBC seems to miss if the survivors are even moving slightly to the side, meanwhile Frieza has a beam at LVL1 that's thinner, and Frieza's Death Beam at LVL3 is the same size, yet has a hitbox the size of a damn truck and lingers for way longer than SBC. SBC's hitbox in comparison is pitiful, as well as the beam deployment time and how fast the beam travels is inferior in every way to Frieza. You can't even catch a Bulma Bike with it unlike Frieza's Death Beam, and have to rely of Full Power Wave with its AOE, and any good survivor will just fly around and waste your time instead of fighting because your base Ki blasts suck, and SBC is easy as pie to dodge. I've never hit a survivor with my base Ki blasts as LVL2 Cell unless they were literally standing still of stuck in an animation, and that's me spamming REALLY hard.

LVL3 Cell's saving grace is the fact that he has the most busted Ki barrage super in the game, but that's about it. You can reliably catch the Bulma Bikes now with Gravity Impact, but roll back to the point made in the first paragraph. You have to use your one nigh-guaranteed long-range hit made to chunk a Survivor's change bar to instead destroy the bike because nothing else will catch them, and then they just get to fly away in change because all you have is a stupid Kamehameha that doesn't deal enough damage and locks you in place on firing, letting them get more and more distance on you with every blast attempt. By the time Gravity Impact is back up, they've already gone across the map three times over in an attempt to evade you, which has just royally wasted your time.

LVL4 Cell isn't any better. Frieza has Death Slicers. TRACKING BASIC KI BLASTS ON A RAIDER. Now, this might seem irrelevant to compare Frieza LVL4 to Cell LVL4, but Cell has little to no options besides melee, because All Clear has a very limited range. Hell, LVL3 Frieza's Death beam deals as much IF NOT MORE damage than LVL4 Cell's All Clear, has more range, less start-up, and is basically instant on its travel path. What about Buu? Kid Buu has those stupid Vanishing Ball shots that he throws out that are massive, clunky, and have terrible tracking? They still hit more often than Cell's LVL4 Ki blasts because of the sheer size of them, and having a large AOE blast on impact with the ground or a survivor. The Vanishing Ball super is way better than All Clear for the exact same reason as Frieza. Faster start-up, more reach, and exclusive to Vanishing Ball, the ability to toss it at any time to make the survivors have to guess when you throw that fastball at them.

And about those LVL1s. Larvae Cell screws over players more often than not regardless of whether the player just started playing Cell, or got to LVL100 playing with him, and the key aspect is civilian RNG. While Buu and Frieza have no such weakness as being confined to the ground, unable to effectively hunt survivors, Cell is stuck skittering around helplessly until he finds 2 civvies to eat for LVL2, and by that time the survivors have saved so many of the other civvies, gotten Dragon Balls and keys, that his early start ends up being pointless in the end because there's, and I quote from Cell himself; "So many people, so little time..." Frieza and Spopo at LVL1 can decommission people like nobody's buisness, so that not only gets one survivor out of the picture for a bit, but also gets rid of other survivors that want to rush in and revive because that stops them from looking for/doing other objectives for a while. Cell can't do that. He has to let survivors have free reign over the map for anywhere from 30 seconds to two whole minutes based on civvie RNG. Most matches take anywhere from seven to fifteen minutes on average. Let those numbers sink in for a bit, and realize just how bad Cell has it on the action economy.

It's unfortunate because I like playing as Cell more than Frieza and Buu simply because I feel scummy with how easy it is to win as Frieza, and I don't enjoy Buu all that much. Feel free to give input and voice your own opinions, I want to hear what others think about it.

[ScorpionZM]

They gave lvl 2+ Cell roughly a 10% increase to his evo energy gains which means nothing truly changed. Its really disappointing.

[Kou_Zidan]

Cell as a whole just feels like a handicap that gives the Survivors a head start. From a Survivor perspective Cell is the most likely to give me a victory. Honestly, to all the high level Cell players, you have been putting in your time on the Dan Hibiki of Raiders.

You can have bad RNG as Spopovich or Frieza and still be a threat to the Survivors. Cell doesn't have that luxury. From the moment the match starts you need to be skittering towards something that you can absorb and all the while you are on that hunt you are watching keys being found that you can't do anything about until you hit level 2. I certainly do not recall a time I have been caught by a level 1 Cell nor with the amount of mobility in the game is it likely to occur as players level.

He doesn't seem any bit faster compared to the other two Raiders as a sort of compensation for the level 1 egg hunt you have to undergo. He doesn't seem to destroy zones faster once finally getting to start hunting players nor does he doesn't seem to move more quickly.

Level 1 purely serves the theme of the multi-stage leveling of the Raiders into more powerful forms but you can't really impact the game in a meaningful fashion until you leave it. Spopovich and Frieza at least provide you with the option that you don't -need- to absorb that survivor to start having an impact as it is far more punishing to down a player or two then hit level 2 while people scramble to safety or try to revive.


Also I'm surprised you don't get the option to pop out Cell Jrs. at level 4 as an area deterrent. Missed opportunity. Hell, in a weird way starting as a Cell Jr. would have been a better option albeit not fitting the canon.

[Sopranos Italianos]

Incredibly well-written take. The amount of Cells I've completely stomped in both solo queue (or, tops, 2 other teammates on occasion) is depressing. They aren't even bad half the time, they just don't have great tools. Just about everyone could tell he was the weakest raider on launch, and with the meta being far more defined and clear now for survivors, he suffers even more.

It's been a recurring thing with me and my friends that when Cell reaches level 3, absolutely none of us have any sort of "oh ♥♥♥♥" moment. R1 spam is annoying in cramped locations or on an objective, but it's basically the only reliable tool he has, on top of the fact that if you use any movement tools you can get out of its range/tracking incredibly easily.

Most of the time it's just "oh haha he has the dogwater ki blast now, time to do whatever".

Right now as Raider I find myself gravitating toward the ones who have better tools to deal with survivor movement, and as is, that's Buu... and Freeza. Whatever I can do to get survivors off the Bulma Bike, essentially, as it's by far the strongest active skill you can use currently to escape Raiders.

I'm not sure what would be the quickest and most fair option to make him better. With his Ki Sense, you want to be actively picking fights with survivors whenever you can, which they can immediately tell you're doing and just bike away... maybe a new movement option? The Ill Bomber ability you get from LVL 3 Buu onward is one of my favorites, as it gets you more quickly into combat situations (which is the most fun part of Raider, imo). I'd trade Solar Flare 100 times over for a fun movement tool beyond using his Vanish which is just not the same

[Paladiknight]

Originally posted by Ao Bai Gaming:

Best takes in this whole discussion board tbh.

[Ao Bai Gaming]

Originally posted by Paladiknight:

Originally posted by Ao Bai Gaming:

Best takes in this whole discussion board tbh.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. My takes can be pretty spicy sometimes or just outright wrong, and I'm appreciative when people call me out on them and actually pose counterarguments that aren't just personal attacks, because that's when ideas can thrive. I don't want the other raiders to be brought down to Cell's level, but I don't want Cell to ascend to godhood either. Bamco is on the right track with these minor buffs and nerfs, because it isn't shaking the meta to it's core, but rather barely shifting it to the side. Time will tell whether or not this minor buff to Cell will make a difference in winrates, because if not, I hope that Bamco continues to buff the main point of Cell, which is his proposed "Extremely fast evolution rate" to make him the most consistent Raider rather than making his damage and assault options completely whack like Frieza's, because that won't be fun for either side.

[Paladiknight]

Originally posted by Ao Bai Gaming:

We in the same match gl. Dunno which one is you. But know you in here somewhere.

[Ao Bai Gaming]

Originally posted by Paladiknight:

Originally posted by Ao Bai Gaming:

We in the same match gl. Dunno which one is you. But know you in here somewhere.

Jinx is my CACs name. Was that the match with the Spopovich we just steamrolled?

[Paladiknight]

Originally posted by Ao Bai Gaming:

Originally posted by Paladiknight:

We in the same match gl. Dunno which one is you. But know you in here somewhere.

Jinx is my CACs name. Was that the match with the Spopovich we just steamrolled?

Lmao. I was playing with the Spopovich. He's my friend. We doing a little ♥♥♥♥ post as Goku and Big Goku from an old newgrounds flash collection. Will probably switch my name back to Paladin soon though.

Was his first match as new spopy. He was trying to shoot a building from not een partciularly far away and watching the shots disintigrate. He was getting rolled hard as hell, but he was having a fun time with it. He just gave up and joined the party.

Couldn't hit me at all with that beam either, not even close. They hit Spopy hard, they really did. We gonna hit the training mod and test out the range and speed of that shot some more.

[Vile Teady]

Originally posted by Ao Bai Gaming:

Originally posted by Paladiknight:

Best takes in this whole discussion board tbh.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. My takes can be pretty spicy sometimes or just outright wrong, and I'm appreciative when people call me out on them and actually pose counterarguments that aren't just personal attacks, because that's when ideas can thrive. I don't want the other raiders to be brought down to Cell's level, but I don't want Cell to ascend to godhood either. Bamco is on the right track with these minor buffs and nerfs, because it isn't shaking the meta to it's core, but rather barely shifting it to the side. Time will tell whether or not this minor buff to Cell will make a difference in winrates, because if not, I hope that Bamco continues to buff the main point of Cell, which is his proposed "Extremely fast evolution rate" to make him the most consistent Raider rather than making his damage and assault options completely whack like Frieza's, because that won't be fun for either side.

I feel like they are playing it safe and are going to make mostly minor adjustments. Which is fair seeing as the player base is low and it's a budget live service game. Hopefully we'll see major changes on season updates.

[Ao Bai Gaming]

Originally posted by Paladiknight:

Originally posted by Ao Bai Gaming:

Jinx is my CACs name. Was that the match with the Spopovich we just steamrolled?

Lmao. I was playing with the Spopovich. He's my friend. We doing a little ♥♥♥♥ post as Goku and Big Goku from an old newgrounds flash collection. Will probably switch my name back to Paladin soon though.

Was his first match as new spopy. He was trying to shoot a building from not een partciularly far away and watching the shots disintigrate. He was getting rolled hard as hell, but he was having a fun time with it. He just gave up and joined the party.

Couldn't hit me at all with that beam either, not even close. They hit Spopy hard, they really did. We gonna hit the training mod and test out the range and speed of that shot some more.

Yeah they nerfed Spopovich's base Ki blast. It has a slower fire rate, less damage, and it travels slower now. They didn't nerf his energy wave super, so it still comes out really fast and has a large AOE, so now you're incentivised to use it a little more. Was a funny match, hope to meet you on the field again!

[OmegaNiko029]

I think being Spopovich could get killed too late if they're moving faster in Bulma's bike which makes me losing too fast to hell.

[Paladiknight]

SO. I was able to learn quite a few things from our training mode this time.

First off. Spoppy's range on ki blasts is 85 units.

Second which I'm sure most people knew already. Level 2 raider ki sense reaches 120 units. Level 3 raider ki sense reaches 140 units. Level 4 raider ki sense reaches 150 units. So Buu and Cell actually share the exact same ki sense distance at the respective levels in which Buu can actually access it.

Third, which I'm going to convince myself vehemently that most people did not know as there's no description of this information anywhere. The description of ki sense says that it tracks within a certain range more or less. Yes, but actually no. I had a few extra people to test with today, and I've always wondered why something felt a little bit off when it was used. How, sometimes somebody that is 40 units away just doesn't get picked up.

Generally I'd move my camera around and search anyway, so it wasn't something I'd noticed. But Ki Sense only picks up people that you would be able to see on the screen as you are facing that direction while the ability is active. You can rotate the camera around in every direction real fast when doing it and get 360 degrees of sight if you're sensitivity isn't terribly low.

I won't say that's necessarily a game changer, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, that information needs to be somewhere in game. I'm sure other people might have picked up on that by now, or it's in some tips and tricks compilation, but ain't no way. The fact that I'm almost 90 levels deep at this point, and I'm just finding that out now.

[Ao Bai Gaming]

Originally posted by Paladiknight:

SO. I was able to learn quite a few things from our training mode this time.

First off. Spoppy's range on ki blasts is 85 units.

Second which I'm sure most people knew already. Level 2 raider ki sense reaches 120 units. Level 3 raider ki sense reaches 140 units. Level 4 raider ki sense reaches 150 units. So Buu and Cell actually share the exact same ki sense distance at the respective levels in which Buu can actually access it.

Third, which I'm going to convince myself vehemently that most people did not know as there's no description of this information anywhere. The description of ki sense says that it tracks within a certain range more or less. Yes, but actually no. I had a few extra people to test with today, and I've always wondered why something felt a little bit off when it was used. How, sometimes somebody that is 40 units away just doesn't get picked up.

Generally I'd move my camera around and search anyway, so it wasn't something I'd noticed. But Ki Sense only picks up people that you would be able to see on the screen as you are facing that direction while the ability is active. You can rotate the camera around in every direction real fast when doing it and get 360 degrees of sight if you're sensitivity isn't terribly low.

I won't say that's necessarily a game changer, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, that information needs to be somewhere in game. I'm sure other people might have picked up on that by now, or it's in some tips and tricks compilation, but ain't no way. The fact that I'm almost 90 levels deep at this point, and I'm just finding that out now.

Honestly Ki sense isn't as OP as people make it out to be. It is strong, but not nearly strong enough to compensate for the glaring issues that Cell naturally faces. Super Buu on the other hand benefits from Ki sense to a much larger degree due to his innately stronger options and methods of attack. If you Ki sense and someone runs away with grapple or other movement options, you have the Ill Bomber move to quickly make distance to catch up with them.

[Paladiknight]

Originally posted by Ao Bai Gaming:

Honestly Ki sense isn't as OP as people make it out to be. It is strong, but not nearly strong enough to compensate for the glaring issues that Cell naturally faces. Super Buu on the other hand benefits from Ki sense to a much larger degree due to his innately stronger options and methods of attack. If you Ki sense and someone runs away with grapple or other movement options, you have the Ill Bomber move to quickly make distance to catch up with them.

Oh, I'm aware. That's why I said it's not exactly much of a game changer. I still value Frieza's dumb minions over it. Some people, won't name any names, seem to think it's so much worse. Yeah, you can totally roll their blasts. But they still guard anywhere you need them too. They're on super short cool downs, they ping out if they do manage to get a lock on someone. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wacky.

Ki sense is decent, and as mentioned way better on Buu due to his toolset. But it's really not the best. Any time I get pinged with that ♥♥♥♥, I'm just gone, immediately. Cell can't catch up, especially with any mobility option up at all.

[maDEMOman]

sounds like a cope-acabana