My thoughts on Principal's Keys and Safety Scissors

[explodingcreeper14]

This is a slightly edited version of a comment I left on a time capsule thread, and I'm also posting it here because I want more attention (and perhaps feedback) to my thoughts, and for a chance of Basically Games checking them out too.

Anyways, I think that these items are kinda too niche. Forgive me if I say something stupid (since I use a specific strategy, and like to play on 1 Minute Limit), but it just feels like I can avoid the situations that the items are fit for too often.

For example, while playing Playtime's minigame, I can usually waltz over to a wall that Playtime can't see behind, while encountering Beans' gum, I can usually just avoid it by moving in a different hallway/room, while in detention, I can use a Dirty Chalk Eraser, Baldi's Least Favorite Tape, or (although this is a high end item) a Portal Poster, and I can avoid Chalkes' build-up by not being in any of his rooms for a good enough amount of time.

It sucks when I don't have PK or SS and I get into a situation when they'd be useful, but I just don't find myself getting into them often, and when I have an inventory of more consistently useful items like (Diet) BSODA, DCE, BLFT, WD-NoSquee, etc., it tends to be more useful for me on average.

I hope that later on, PK or SS may be reworked, the game may be changed or more features may be added that they can become more consistently useful.

[WhoKnowsWhoIAm]

I share the same thoughts, but on a wider scale of items: Big 'Ol Boots, Swinging Door Lock, and the Alarm Clock. Big 'Ol Boots and the Alarm Clock get a bit of slack, though, because they're items that you can use instantly and still may provide utility. The Swinging Door Lock, however, is almost worthless.

I've had the idea for a while now that Classic was designed for the Swinging Door Lock. Swinging Doors are intelligently placed so that each door has a winding alternative path to take if it is locked, and the map itself is designed so that there aren't many ways to cut the player off.

Plus, however, doesn't have the luxury of hand-built intelligent maps. There are times where it seems perfect to lock Baldi away, so I do, only for him to divert to a path that cuts me off - a path he wouldn't have taken had I not locked him.

0.8 did alleviate some of these problems by making a set size floors must be, meaning that halls are less likely to be extremely long with no branches, but I stand by my point that the Door Lock can actually be more of a hinderance than an aid.

[|i.c.c.n|]

in the 1 minute challenge I definitely see it being more niche since countering the 3 NPCs each affected by those two items comes up a lot less when you can't really stay in one place for long (except Principal, who if anything may become even more of an issue since running and being in school after hours are both against the rules)
_ even without the 1 minute challenge the NPCs are still pretty easy to counter in other ways, meaning you can still forgo grabbing them if you really wanted to

there's always the possibility that other NPCs get added down the line that lock doors or are countered by scissors, but in the meantime:
I remember people suggesting that the keys be useful against Swinging Door Locks in case you need it to open up sooner. this may take a lot of the risk away from the lock, but that's only if you happen to have the keys
_ another idea would be to introduce doors that are kept locked by default, but idk what they'd be used for and you'd have to make sure the player couldn't accidentally get trapped in the room

as for the scissors though, idk. can't think of something that can be added that would make sense for them to affect. maybe mystman already has something planned that utilizes them

[WhoKnowsWhoIAm]

Originally posted by |i.c.c.n|:

in the 1 minute challenge I definitely see it being more niche since countering the 3 NPCs each affected by those two items comes up a lot less when you can't really stay in one place for long (except Principal, who if anything may become even more of an issue since running and being in school after hours are both against the rules)
_ even without the 1 minute challenge the NPCs are still pretty easy to counter in other ways, meaning you can still forgo grabbing them if you really wanted to

there's always the possibility that other NPCs get added down the line that lock doors or are countered by scissors, but in the meantime:
I remember people suggesting that the keys be useful against Swinging Door Locks in case you need it to open up sooner. this may take a lot of the risk away from the lock, but that's only if you happen to have the keys
_ another idea would be to introduce doors that are kept locked by default, but idk what they'd be used for and you'd have to make sure the player couldn't accidentally get trapped in the room

as for the scissors though, idk. can't think of something that can be added that would make sense for them to affect. maybe mystman already has something planned that utilizes them

You could have wires that connect electronics together (like lights, roto-halls, super doors, etc.) and cutting the wire results in the structure going defunct - so you could cut the lights to the Principal's Office or another room to hide better, or cut wires to a Super Door during the Test Procedure event if you really have to access somewhere or escape, or you could cut the roto-hall to...uh...trap yourself, I guess?

[GregTheBPlayer]

Originally posted by WhoKnowsWhoIAm:

Originally posted by |i.c.c.n|:

in the 1 minute challenge I definitely see it being more niche since countering the 3 NPCs each affected by those two items comes up a lot less when you can't really stay in one place for long (except Principal, who if anything may become even more of an issue since running and being in school after hours are both against the rules)
_ even without the 1 minute challenge the NPCs are still pretty easy to counter in other ways, meaning you can still forgo grabbing them if you really wanted to

there's always the possibility that other NPCs get added down the line that lock doors or are countered by scissors, but in the meantime:
I remember people suggesting that the keys be useful against Swinging Door Locks in case you need it to open up sooner. this may take a lot of the risk away from the lock, but that's only if you happen to have the keys
_ another idea would be to introduce doors that are kept locked by default, but idk what they'd be used for and you'd have to make sure the player couldn't accidentally get trapped in the room

as for the scissors though, idk. can't think of something that can be added that would make sense for them to affect. maybe mystman already has something planned that utilizes them

You could have wires that connect electronics together (like lights, roto-halls, super doors, etc.) and cutting the wire results in the structure going defunct - so you could cut the lights to the Principal's Office or another room to hide better, or cut wires to a Super Door during the Test Procedure event if you really have to access somewhere or escape, or you could cut the roto-hall to...uh...trap yourself, I guess?

Too op imo

[WhoKnowsWhoIAm]

Originally posted by GregTheBPlayer:

Originally posted by WhoKnowsWhoIAm:

You could have wires that connect electronics together (like lights, roto-halls, super doors, etc.) and cutting the wire results in the structure going defunct - so you could cut the lights to the Principal's Office or another room to hide better, or cut wires to a Super Door during the Test Procedure event if you really have to access somewhere or escape, or you could cut the roto-hall to...uh...trap yourself, I guess?

Too op imo

Ok, maybe cutting lights is a bit OP. Maybe like 2 or 3 rooms should have a way to cut power, and those rooms can't be the Principal's Office or big rooms like the Library.

I'm just throwing ideas from my head here, of course the balancing is going to be off. I'm not spending too much time on this.

[|i.c.c.n|]

Originally posted by WhoKnowsWhoIAm:

Originally posted by |i.c.c.n|:

[...]
as for the scissors though, idk. can't think of something that can be added that would make sense for them to affect. maybe mystman already has something planned that utilizes them

You could have wires that connect electronics together (like lights, roto-halls, super doors, etc.) and cutting the wire results in the structure going defunct - so you could cut the lights to the Principal's Office or another room to hide better, or cut wires to a Super Door during the Test Procedure event if you really have to access somewhere or escape, or you could cut the roto-hall to...uh...trap yourself, I guess?

I admittedly thought them affecting structures too (more specifically disabling them for a short time like with 1st Prize), but gave up on the idea because unless it was specifically for a new structure with obvious exposed wires, it felt like it doesn't provide enough usefulness to justify adding it for the existing structures if that makes sense

didn't think about the lights, though, but agree it'd be a bit powerful without major restrictions since fully darkened tiles make you invisible to NPCs

Originally posted by WhoKnowsWhoIAm:

Ok, maybe cutting lights is a bit OP. Maybe like 2 or 3 rooms should have a way to cut power, and those rooms can't be the Principal's Office or big rooms like the Library.

I'm just throwing ideas from my head here, of course the balancing is going to be off. I'm not spending too much time on this.

like this is a good start, but you'd also have to be careful about classrooms since Math Machines also turn off when a room loses power