1st Prize needs a buff.

[Mc Mcarthy Jones]

………I love 1st Prize. Before 0.4 they were my favourite character by a pretty wide margin, but the new generation has hit them really hard. Even in 3.0 they struggled with the larger and windier floors of BBP, but now floors are even windier! (And maybe larger, I’m not sure.)

………Most characters thrive in long hallways, but 1st Prize disproportionately needs them. They turn slow, take a while to speed up, and lose the player the instant they turn a corner. Which is all fine in theory, different characters having different strengths and weaknesses is a good thing. But 1st Prize is too far out in one direction now, and I think they need to be brought back a little.

………Most of their time is spent in these winding passages since they’re so ridiculously slow. And even when they do find a decently lengthy hallway, it’s surrounded by more winding passage ways. Often when I do run into 1st Prize, (which is much rarer than running into other characters.) I either walk right past them, or they only push me slightly.

………Intentionally getting pushed by them is also way less viable then it used to be, since there’s rarely multiple halls to bring them down in a row. In the scenario where 1st Prize is near a long hallway, why would I wait for him to come over and push me when I’m just going to lose him so quickly? The only scenario where 1st Prize can be interesting or useful, is when they’re already in a long hallway. Which takes away a lot of the fun of the character.

………What I’m saying is, 1st Prize is too slow and too specialised for the floors of BBP. They really need a buff, because even medium length hallways aren’t all that good for them. They’re base speed should be increased, they should speed up faster, and most importantly, their turning speed should be increased. I’m not saying they need to be supercharged or anything, but give them something because they’re really struggling.

[|i.c.c.n|]

imo the root problem is a culmination of the turning speed combined with the inability to take diagonals like other NPCs can. to traverse diagonally through a wide open area requires going forward until they can make a 90-degree turn, then repeating as necessary.. obviously very slow, and the newer generator making layouts a lot less linear doesn't help

and that's just wandering. since 1st Prize for some reason needs to move along a cardinal direction, if you want to be pushed but aren't positioned in an optimal way then a lot of time can be wasted waiting for 1st Prize to align themselves depending on the angle. thankfully if the angle is shallow 1st Prize can just sorta veer to the side (albeit seeming to need to pause once they re-center themselves), but many angles still require that "forward, turn, repeat" movement
_ then if you're closer to 45 degrees, you could(*?) end up with a weird stuttery diagonal movement where 1st Prize doesn't know how to turn to approach but wants to get closer regardless (*at least, I think this can still happen? I remember it happening on older versions..)


taking diagonals better alone would def help improve how 1st Prize navigates the map, and can be further improved by tweaking the turn speed. the wander speed is fine imo (it's not that bad, it's actually the same as Mrs. Pomp's last I checked), but I can see sense in just making 1st Prize wander faster overall to compensate for having to stop to turn

[Mc Mcarthy Jones]

.........I think the inability to take diagonals is a consequence of how Plus is programmed. 1st Prize was the hardest character to implement because of their unique momentum mechanics, which is why I suggested more simple changes instead of going back to the grindstone and trying to fix those issues.

......... In a perfect world, I'd want 1st Prize's movements to be smooth and natural, but it was probably a challenge to get 1st Prize to work at all in this new game. I mean 1st Prize in classic was already the most jank character, so I'd still consider Plus's iteration to be an improvement. Regardless, I don't know if it's worth the development time to fix 1st Prize unless other characters that are similar get added.

[Comic Sketch]

Why do you keep on using the term "they"? Are we talking about him or multiple characters..?

[|i.c.c.n|]

Originally posted by Comic Sketch:

Why do you keep on saying "they"? Are we talking about him or multiple characters..?

force of habit, 1st Prize doesn't really have a gender so I was using singular 'they' in this context

[Comic Sketch]

Originally posted by |i.c.c.n|:

Originally posted by Comic Sketch:

Why do you keep on saying "they"? Are we talking about him or multiple characters..?

force of habit, 1st Prize doesn't really have a gender so I was using singular 'they' in this context

Nah i was talking to OP. And I'm pretty sure mystman12 has referred to him as "he" before.

[Mc Mcarthy Jones]

Originally posted by Comic Sketch:

Why do you keep on using the term "they"? Are we talking about him or multiple characters..?

I'm the same as i.c.c.n I use they because they're a robot, they don't have a gender. I do the same for Gotta Sweep and Arts and Crafters.

[|i.c.c.n|]

Originally posted by Mc Mcarthy Jones:

.........I think the inability to take diagonals is a consequence of how Plus is programmed. 1st Prize was the hardest character to implement because of their unique momentum mechanics, which is why I suggested more simple changes instead of going back to the grindstone and trying to fix those issues.

......... In a perfect world, I'd want 1st Prize's movements to be smooth and natural, but it was probably a challenge to get 1st Prize to work at all in this new game. I mean 1st Prize in classic was already the most jank character, so I'd still consider Plus's iteration to be an improvement. Regardless, I don't know if it's worth the development time to fix 1st Prize unless other characters that are similar get added.

fair point, I forgot about just how long it took to make 1st Prize work with BB+'s navigation system; it'd suck to have to do a heavy rewrite of already difficult-to-implement code

if fixing diagonals is too much trouble for what it's worth, then simply upping the turning/movement speed like you said would definitely be a helpful alternative

[Comic Sketch]

Originally posted by Mc Mcarthy Jones:

Originally posted by Comic Sketch:

Why do you keep on using the term "they"? Are we talking about him or multiple characters..?

I'm the same as i.c.c.n I use they because they're a robot, they don't have a gender. I do the same for Gotta Sweep and Arts and Crafters.

oh thats why, since hes a robot. All of these rehashed new pronouns just confusing xd

[DannDaMANN]

Originally posted by Mc Mcarthy Jones:

Originally posted by Comic Sketch:

Why do you keep on using the term "they"? Are we talking about him or multiple characters..?

I'm the same as i.c.c.n I use they because they're a robot, they don't have a gender. I do the same for Gotta Sweep and Arts and Crafters.

According to the character posters, first prize and gotta sweep are indeed referred to as "it", but arts and crafters is actually referred to as "him".

[Comic Sketch]

Originally posted by DannDaMann:

Originally posted by Mc Mcarthy Jones:

I'm the same as i.c.c.n I use they because they're a robot, they don't have a gender. I do the same for Gotta Sweep and Arts and Crafters.

According to the character posters, first prize and gotta sweep are indeed referred to as "it", but arts and crafters is actually referred to as "him".

true i forgot abt the posters. but i've always just defaulted to he/him to avoid confusion and since he just obviously isn't a girl lol. And for AnC i never thought of being a guy but he definitely also isn't a girl. Guess it never crossed my mind xd