Suggestion on how to make Big Ol' Boots more useful

[Brix]

Currently, Big Ol' Boots are one of the worst items in the game, on par with the principal's whistle. The main problem with these items, in my opinion, is that they're way too situational. The Boots can help you with a few characters, sure, but is it really worth an inventory slot? After all, that slot could hold something like the grappling hook, (Which can pretty easily get you past Cloudy Copter or the Conveyor Belts, if I'm remembering correctly) or something like the BSoda, both of which are much more useful items.

My proposed solution would be to add an additional effect to Big Ol Boots; somehow make running more effective during it's duration.
Ideally, I think the boots would increase your run speed. While logically this doesn't really make sense, this is also a game where soda is a viable weapon, so it wouldn't be the most absurd thing here. This buff would make the boots more viable of a choice.
The main problem with the item, in my experience at least, is just that it's way too situational to be worth carrying. Very rarely are you in a situation where the Big Ol Boots are the only or best way out, and even if that situation comes up, I've never thought "Man, If only I had Big Ol' Boots on me." But if the boots had another buff unrelated to the mobility one, then the boots would be a MUCH more valuable item.

Alternatively, the boots could increase how long your stamina lasts (IE say running only takes 75% as much stamina as it normally does, letting you run further with full stamina) or the boots could restore a bit of stamina (Not as much as the Zesty Bar does, but maybe like half of your meter?) or somehow increase your maximum stamina,or something, but an increased run speed would be a big enough buff on its own to make the boots worth carrying.

EDIT: There's also the very possible possibility that the Boots will be more useful as more characters are added that it can counter. Overall though I feel like the point stands that even if it can counter more characters they wont be worthwhile.

[|i.c.c.n|]

currently the Big Ol' Boots help against the following:
Whirlpools (and iirc even the slowdown walking in water gives you), Conveyor Belts, 1st Prize, Gotta Sweep, Cloudy Copter's wind, an angry Mrs. Pomp, and if you realise a Grappling Hook is about to send you into certain death

you must remember that Big Ol' Boots aren't against specific characters or structure, but against a specific mechanic, i.e being pushed/pulled. future characters may be affected by this, sure, but so could future structures or events (although what those would even be I'm not sure) or, if the Grappling Hook is any indication, even future items.
_ a lot of potential in the future doesn't mean the Boots are too useful now, but they aren't the most situational item either (and apparently have slightly more uses than I can think of for the Principal's Whistle atm, which is 4 or 5)

a far more situational item that you didn't mention, the Safety Scissors, can be used for: escaping Beans' gum, disabling 1st Prize, and making Playtime sad


situational items aren't necessarily bad, and if every item was designed to be as versatile as possible, then that'd sorta oversaturate the market. you only have 5 slots after all, so at some point you wouldn't know what items to take. that, and too many strong/versatile items would make the game much easier and take away the challenge
_ for your suggestion, why take a Zesty Bar when Big Ol' Boots help move more efficiently and you can just hide away somewhere to get more stamina? sure the Zesty Bar's stamina boost may last longer, but what's a 200% stamina bar to either being able to move faster or having your stamina use decreased temporarily?


if I were to change the Big Ol' Boots to be more versatile, however, I'd suggest they'd stop you from being slowed. that wouldn't add too many more situations that they help in as the game is now, but making it official instead of just being an unspoken part of other interactions (e.g water, Mrs. Pomp) would open them up to more possibilities at least

[Brix]

The safety scissors are a fair comparison

Originally posted by |i.c.c.n|:

a far more situational item that you didn't mention, the Safety Scissors, can be used for: escaping Beans' gum, disabling 1st Prize, and making Playtime sad

However, the scissors are much more common than the boots (Which I think can only be found on one floor) and the things they cut are, in my opinion, generally more useful. Beans' gum is incredibly annoying and the boots don't help you with that (even though adding this feature would be a useful buff, as you suggested), and playtime is, as always, insanely annoying. And they let you get out of first prize, which isn't that useful but still that's another thing the boots are supposed to counter but this other item does.

The problem isn't the situational usage itself, its mainly just that the situations that it counters aren't there that often to be worth carrying a one use consumable. And most of the things it *does* counter are also countered by the grappling hook. In fact, I'm pretty sure the only thing that the boots can uniquely counter is Gotta Sweep.
First Prize turns very slowly and can be cut with Scissors, Whirlpools, Conveyor Belts, and Cloudy Copter can be avoided using the grappling hook (Unless I'm wrong, but im pretty sure the hook lets you escape) and Mrs. Pomp tends to be incredibly easy to just get to their classroom in my experience; I've never had her enrage or be close to it.
The scissors has fewer use cases but is in my opinion a MUCH more useful item.
The scissors may only counter 3 characters, but when 2 of those characters are extremely annoying and can be certain death, being the only* item that can reliably get you out of it is a pretty big selling point.

*I mean, technically you can use the grappling hook to escape playtime, but that's a waste unless its your only option, and you can still use the grappling hook while gummed, but again, that's kind of a waste, unless it's your only option. The teleporter can also be used as a last resort but it's extremely rare and using it to escape beans or playtime is a waste. the scissors are much easier to get, and overall I'd say beans and playtime ARE worth an inventory slot to counter.

Overall, even making you immune to all slowing, period, (which I might be forgetting but this would only add a buff against Beans at the moment, I think?) might be useful as more characters are added, but for now I still think the characters it counters either aren't worth a unique item to counter / if they are, it's not worth an item slot to carry an item specifically just to counter them.

Originally posted by |i.c.c.n|:

for your suggestion, why take a Zesty Bar when Big Ol' Boots help move more efficiently and you can just hide away somewhere to get more stamina? sure the Zesty Bar's stamina boost may last longer, but what's a 200% stamina bar to either being able to move faster or having your stamina use decreased temporarily?

Ideally, assuming the boots *Just increase your run speed by a bit* and don't regenerate any stamina, then the Zesty Bar and the Boots have their own uses. The boots would be good if (and only if) you had enough stamina to make the boost to your run speed worthwhile. Additionally, if the boots remain rare and only available on certain floors, then you're wasting a (while unlikely to be) potentially lifesaving item.

That's just my thoughts on it, though. Not all items can be winners. But I do think the boots are one of the 'bad' items that could be made better. (I don't think there's any saving the whistle, the only reasons you would ever want it is to intentionally get sent to detention (which means you either need a chalk eraser, Baldi's Least Favorite Tape, Keys, Portal Poster, or something of that nature to escape, and if you're planning to use the Eraser or Keys then you'd also want/need WD-NoSquee, overall for that use to be viable you need ANOTHER item in your inventory. ) or if you want to get the bully out of your way, i guess, but you're still down an item anyway if you do that, I *guess* you get to pick that it's the whistle but still)

[|i.c.c.n|]

Originally posted by Brix:

The safety scissors are a fair comparison

Originally posted by |i.c.c.n|:

a far more situational item that you didn't mention, the Safety Scissors, can be used for: escaping Beans' gum, disabling 1st Prize, and making Playtime sad

However, the scissors are much more common than the boots (Which I think can only be found on one floor) and the things they cut are, in my opinion, generally more useful. Beans' gum is incredibly annoying and the boots don't help you with that (even though adding this feature would be a useful buff, as you suggested), and playtime is, as always, insanely annoying. And they let you get out of first prize, which isn't that useful but still that's another thing the boots are supposed to counter but this other item does.

The problem isn't the situational usage itself, its mainly just that the situations that it counters aren't there that often to be worth carrying a one use consumable. And most of the things it *does* counter are also countered by the grappling hook. In fact, I'm pretty sure the only thing that the boots can uniquely counter is Gotta Sweep.

false, Grappling Hooks also release you from Gotta Sweep since Gotta Sweep does not grip the player (flipping gravities in the Gravity Chaos event also releases you). Big Ol' Boots don't have a unique counter, but are are a general-use item like the Faculty Name Tag in that they may not be able to be used often, but help with multiple things at once. while the Faculty Name Tag is more useful since faculty are less likely to have counters and the nametag helps with more characters at once (interestingly, no fully unique counters thanks to Gravity Chaos), both items have their use cases and last 15 seconds

Originally posted by Brix:

The scissors may only counter 3 characters, but when 2 of those characters are extremely annoying and can be certain death, being the only* item that can reliably get you out of it is a pretty big selling point.

*I mean, technically you can use the grappling hook to escape playtime, but that's a waste unless its your only option, and you can still use the grappling hook while gummed, but again, that's kind of a waste, unless it's your only option. The teleporter can also be used as a last resort but it's extremely rare and using it to escape beans or playtime is a waste. the scissors are much easier to get, and overall I'd say beans and playtime ARE worth an inventory slot to counter.

the only thing the Safety Scissors uniquely counter is Beans' gum.
both Playtime and 1st Prize share ways to get out of their mechanic early: Safety Scissors (ofc), Dangerous Teleporter, teleportation from an outside force (NPC, Whirlpool).
for more specific instances, Playtime can be also escaped via Blue Lockers or the player just being pushed away, and 1st Prize has Big Ol' Boots and the Gravity Chaos event. not all the methods are as reliable as the Scissors, sure, but there's still a few options

Originally posted by Brix:

Overall, even making you immune to all slowing, period, (which I might be forgetting but this would only add a buff against Beans at the moment, I think?) might be useful as more characters are added, but for now I still think the characters it counters either aren't worth a unique item to counter / if they are, it's not worth an item slot to carry an item specifically just to counter them.

technically there's two things a slowdown-immunity would help you with, since Gotta Sweep still slows the player down if you're wearing boots; this is only really noticeable if he's not moving fast, however. (while adding slowdown-immunity would remove the Safety Scissor's one unique counter, it's not like there's much else that has a unique counter anyways unless it's specifically against Baldi)
_ and yeah, for now there might not be too much use: but when the final amount of characters in the game could possibly be at least double what we have now, that's when changes will make more difference. suggestions are tricky in that what may work in early stages of development in terms of gameplay may not be so good later on (e.g Principal originally not being able to lose track of you. I don't think the change was a suggestion, but it's the best example I could think of lol) but I imagine the opposite can also be true, as well

Originally posted by Brix:

Originally posted by |i.c.c.n|:

for your suggestion, why take a Zesty Bar when Big Ol' Boots help move more efficiently and you can just hide away somewhere to get more stamina? sure the Zesty Bar's stamina boost may last longer, but what's a 200% stamina bar to either being able to move faster or having your stamina use decreased temporarily?

Ideally, assuming the boots *Just increase your run speed by a bit* and don't regenerate any stamina, then the Zesty Bar and the Boots have their own uses. The boots would be good if (and only if) you had enough stamina to make the boost to your run speed worthwhile. Additionally, if the boots remain rare and only available on certain floors, then you're wasting a (while unlikely to be) potentially lifesaving item.

the Zesty Bar already has the map sizes itself working against it, as I mentioned that you can just hide somewhere to regain stamina. this may not always be a viable option but the bigger the map, the more likely it is for Baldi to of wandered away from you.
_ I already don't take the candy very often, so the Boots improving the efficiency of stamina in any way would further increase my chances of ignoring the Zesty Bar. while this may not be true for everyone, it could make a difference on someone's planning

Originally posted by Brix:

That's just my thoughts on it, though. Not all items can be winners. But I do think the boots are one of the 'bad' items that could be made better. (I don't think there's any saving the whistle, the only reasons you would ever want it is to intentionally get sent to detention (which means you either need a chalk eraser, Baldi's Least Favorite Tape, Keys, Portal Poster, or something of that nature to escape, and if you're planning to use the Eraser or Keys then you'd also want/need WD-NoSquee, overall for that use to be viable you need ANOTHER item in your inventory. ) or if you want to get the bully out of your way, i guess, but you're still down an item anyway if you do that, I *guess* you get to pick that it's the whistle but still)

the Principal Whistle can be used for:

• getting rid of It's a Bully (and potentially other rulebreaking characters should they come further down the line),
  
• getting detention to avoid a bad situation
  
• sending Principal away from where you need to go so he doesn't bother you (he doesn't immediately go back to where he came from, after all)
  
• possibly opening a door quietly (and if it's a one-way door, potentially going through from the wrong side if Principal is somewhere on the other side. that's where the 5th potential use I mentioned earlier comes in)

I also just remembered you could use it to get to the Party quicker (or even the Mystery Room if it happens to be near the Principal's Office) if you're otherwise unable to make it, though this does have the same problems of using it to get out of a bad situation in that you've both made a sound and are in danger of being caught by Baldi if you don't have an item to help you

there's a chance you don't need WD-NoSquee if Baldi was far away and especially even saw you from a distance before you got detention, since the sound of getting Detention has a higher priority than doors, and getting seen has a higher priority than everything else. if Baldi's particularly distracted and far enough away, you might not even need any items to keep you safe inside detention (even if it's highly recommended just in case)
_ and then, in the situation where Baldi comes to the Principal's Office before your detention time is up and you have to hide, you still don't need WD-NoSquee since while Baldi may occasionally circle an area, he tends to wander off if he didn't see you so you could wait until he's gotten far enough away that it's safe again. might not be the most time efficient, but it saves you a slot

[|i.c.c.n|]

realised I didn't comment much on the rarity aspect, which does affect both our standpoints on the Big Ol' Boots

I don't know why they only naturally spawn on F1, I'd sorta hope they would spawn on other floors as well, but they're not the rarest in the game since iirc, multiple can spawn on F1. not only that, but their appearance and price in Johnny's shop makes it easier to grab some before or between other floors

I've had runs where it was possible to get multiple Dangerous Teleporters, despite the fact that's supposed to be rare. I don't forsee getting a couple sets of Big Ol' Boots to save for later situations being too difficult. and if you're worried about taking up too many slots, keep in mind that you're less likely to have to push back or nullify what you can just run away from :p