Build balance is pretty bad

[SjakaWaka]

i have done 3 attempt now at a fresh start

First was an instinct build and i ended up getting brick walled on Edwyn because there aren't good instinct weapons you can get early enough
Only the guns seems to scale and you just don't have the bullets to kill a boss with them or even come close to that

Second i tried a strength build
And i blasted trough the game without difficulty killed all bosses in 1 or 2 attempts

Third i tried a mind build and again i got brick walled on Edwyn
Same problem i had with the instinct build except worse because even the spells barely scale
And the spells that do reasonable damage cost so much focus you can only use it like once or twice

i haven't tried dex so no idea there (but seeing as you start with a ok dex weapon i assume it's at least workable)

It's fine that some builds are harder earlier on
But my strength build did 3-4 times the damage the other 2 did by the time i got to Edwyn
And had more HP as well the difference is WAY TO BIG

[gungadin22000]

Wouldn't do much vs bosses, sadly. By the time I've spent my majestic 16 bullets, the boss will have lost a grand total of 15% of its health.

[Black Captain]

2nd playthrough for lulz. Went str. It’s just night and day different from mind/int. Level 2 great sword destroys Edwin. It’s not even close. They really need to balance this. I’m tearing through the game and have 0 need to grind.

[DMSteed]

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

Originally posted by gungadin22000:

I second the notion that instinct is a bit underpowered. The guns that scale off instinct are quite nice, but the ammo limit makes them useless as a main method of murder, and after finding 10 weapons, only 2 of them scale off instinct, one starting at D, the other at E.

More ammo capacity or the ability to resupply ammo in the field might be nice.

Ammo refund on a kill could go a long way.

Or better yet, ammo refund chance on a hit, so that bosses work better with an instinct build.

[The_Squarecrow]

Beat the game on a 100% mind with spells build, then switched the stats around to benefit the ice sword. Ice sword + ice spells and ice missiles got me through the game.

[ColonelBaker]

I wonder if it would have been better to ditch allocated stats and just level up your character and let the player use whatever weapons they wanted. I don't see myself doing a second playthrough of this and would have enjoyed trying more weapons and play-styles during the run. That being said I really enjoy this game, it just seems like the devs didn't work out how this current system should be implemented.

[Aldourien]

ITT: Armchair game designers.

[Paradox]

One of my biggest complaints is actually that the weapons have 2-3 stat requirements, and you many of them way too late in the game to tailor your build. I played dex, and used the starter sword for probably 75% of the game (I found the whip fairly early, but didn't like it as much).

By the time I had access to other decent looking dex weapons, I was already like level 70 and they all required 12-18 in side stats like strength, instinct, or mind. That on top of the fact that I'd need to upgrade them to 5+ just to get a decent comparison to what I was using already felt like a big time and resource investment that late in the game.

[avastcosmicarena]

Originally posted by Aldourien:

Originally posted by Marshal Amim Kagori:

Literally why use anything else aside to meme?

To be fair, you gain access to the Spinal Chain Blade very soon after Edwynn Yegor & Leena (forgot you need Propulsion Boots too) which scales very well with Mind. Therefore I'd say a Mind build works very well if you use Nighttide's Rout in the early game.

How many hours into the game is this? Because i'm like 7 hours into the game and starting to get frustrated that there is nothing at all to use for a mind build and enemies are taking way too many hits to kill. I only upgraded Dex to the minimum requirement of 12 to use the starter weapon and don't want to waste points on Dex just to get to a decent magic weapon. Am I playing wrong? Is Mind meant to be only a secondary build stat? Should I be leveling Dex in the meantime?

[Black Captain]

Originally posted by avastcosmicarena:

Originally posted by Aldourien:

To be fair, you gain access to the Spinal Chain Blade very soon after Edwynn Yegor & Leena (forgot you need Propulsion Boots too) which scales very well with Mind. Therefore I'd say a Mind build works very well if you use Nighttide's Rout in the early game.

How many hours into the game is this? Because i'm like 7 hours into the game and starting to get frustrated that there is nothing at all to use for a mind build and enemies are taking way too many hits to kill. I only upgraded Dex to the minimum requirement of 12 to use the starter weapon and don't want to waste points on Dex just to get to a decent magic weapon. Am I playing wrong? Is Mind meant to be only a secondary build stat? Should I be leveling Dex in the meantime?

This might help
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3089442520

[Aldourien]

Originally posted by avastcosmicarena:

How many hours into the game is this? Because i'm like 7 hours into the game and starting to get frustrated that there is nothing at all to use for a mind build and enemies are taking way too many hits to kill. I only upgraded Dex to the minimum requirement of 12 to use the starter weapon and don't want to waste points on Dex just to get to a decent magic weapon. Am I playing wrong? Is Mind meant to be only a secondary build stat? Should I be leveling Dex in the meantime?

Depends. If you know what to do, it takes between three to four hours. If you don't, you might never find it—since it is hidden.

You still have spells and blue haemophyte to support them, it'll cost a bit more Nycrux overall though. You can level Dexterity, but the mind-scaling Dex weapon is only accessible near the end of the game. If you plan on using Spinal Chain Blade you will want to level Mind and Strength at a 3:1 ratio.

[thorin.hannahs]

Originally posted by avastcosmicarena:

Originally posted by Aldourien:

To be fair, you gain access to the Spinal Chain Blade very soon after Edwynn Yegor & Leena (forgot you need Propulsion Boots too) which scales very well with Mind. Therefore I'd say a Mind build works very well if you use Nighttide's Rout in the early game.

How many hours into the game is this? Because i'm like 7 hours into the game and starting to get frustrated that there is nothing at all to use for a mind build and enemies are taking way too many hits to kill. I only upgraded Dex to the minimum requirement of 12 to use the starter weapon and don't want to waste points on Dex just to get to a decent magic weapon. Am I playing wrong? Is Mind meant to be only a secondary build stat? Should I be leveling Dex in the meantime?

I have done two playthroughs doing MIND. As soon as the Great Sword becomes available use it. The ding to damage from not having strength is of little consequence until later in the game.

Spinal Chain Blade does comparable damage but your first worthwhile weapon is the Ice Sword and if you have at least one liver and the spell shop unlocked the boss you need to beat to get it gets melted by the dark fireball spell. After the sword you want the dark katana and that is pretty much the only weapon you need as it scales up to S in MIND.

My experience is that not all bosses are conducive to spell use so having one of the weapons mentioned helps a lot. Be willing to buy mana potions constantly if you want to use spells and I think there are only about 5 spells in total that are really worth using.

My stat spread was pump VIT to 30 right away as spells don't do much early game. Then I pump MIND up to 50 in between upgrading weapons. Upgrading weapons is more effective and easy since you get locked out based on blue prints.

I left STR at 7 until I got done pumping MIND.

[Aldourien]

Illygarth Boreal Blade is really bad when compared to other weapons found at that time. Both the physical and cold damage start at very low bases, 80/10 and does comparable damage to Nightfall Blade.
You can get Rift of Blood about one hour later in the same area where the Boreal Blade is found. Rift of Blood is touted as the strongest weapon in the game. Most enemies from then on will have resistances to the frost damage the Boreal Blade deals as a double whammy.

Edit: Additionally, you can get the Spinal Chain Blade way before Illygarth Boreal Blade.

[avastcosmicarena]

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

Originally posted by avastcosmicarena:

How many hours into the game is this? Because i'm like 7 hours into the game and starting to get frustrated that there is nothing at all to use for a mind build and enemies are taking way too many hits to kill. I only upgraded Dex to the minimum requirement of 12 to use the starter weapon and don't want to waste points on Dex just to get to a decent magic weapon. Am I playing wrong? Is Mind meant to be only a secondary build stat? Should I be leveling Dex in the meantime?

I have done two playthroughs doing MIND. As soon as the Great Sword becomes available use it. The ding to damage from not having strength is of little consequence until later in the game.

Spinal Chain Blade does comparable damage but your first worthwhile weapon is the Ice Sword and if you have at least one liver and the spell shop unlocked the boss you need to beat to get it gets melted by the dark fireball spell. After the sword you want the dark katana and that is pretty much the only weapon you need as it scales up to S in MIND.

My experience is that not all bosses are conducive to spell use so having one of the weapons mentioned helps a lot. Be willing to buy mana potions constantly if you want to use spells and I think there are only about 5 spells in total that are really worth using.

My stat spread was pump VIT to 30 right away as spells don't do much early game. Then I pump MIND up to 50 in between upgrading weapons. Upgrading weapons is more effective and easy since you get locked out based on blue prints.

I left STR at 7 until I got done pumping MIND.

Yeah, I'm going to be honest. I just got to Edwyin, and using the starter Dex weapon does NO damage whatsoever even when at 12. However, switching to the starter strength weapon does like 2x the damage even with Strength still at 7. This makes no sense to me and leaves a really bad impression. The classes are very poorly balanced. Btw, Edwyn is still very hard for me with the strength weapon. My mind stat is already at 30, but it's pretty much useless in this fight. What are they thinking?

[Aldourien]

Originally posted by avastcosmicarena:

Yeah, I'm going to be honest. I just got to Edwyin, and using the starter Dex weapon does NO damage whatsoever even when at 12. However, switching to the starter strength weapon does like 2x the damage even with Strength still at 7.

Because you haven't been investing into primary damage statistics, and base damage will matter much more (I hope you upgrade Nightfall Blade at least). You can boost the damage by using Combustion Powder and hit Edwyn with the Old Ashes spell while he's recovering after attacking—Burn will help you in this fight.

Edit: Think of the game more like Megaman. The intention is to avoid damage, rather than tanking it, and attack when the boss is idle. You can slay Edwyn with fifteen or so Vitality as long as you know his attack patterns while keeping your primary damage statistics higher to deal damage faster.

[thorin.hannahs]

Originally posted by avastcosmicarena:

Originally posted by thorin.hannahs:

I have done two playthroughs doing MIND. As soon as the Great Sword becomes available use it. The ding to damage from not having strength is of little consequence until later in the game.

Spinal Chain Blade does comparable damage but your first worthwhile weapon is the Ice Sword and if you have at least one liver and the spell shop unlocked the boss you need to beat to get it gets melted by the dark fireball spell. After the sword you want the dark katana and that is pretty much the only weapon you need as it scales up to S in MIND.

My experience is that not all bosses are conducive to spell use so having one of the weapons mentioned helps a lot. Be willing to buy mana potions constantly if you want to use spells and I think there are only about 5 spells in total that are really worth using.

My stat spread was pump VIT to 30 right away as spells don't do much early game. Then I pump MIND up to 50 in between upgrading weapons. Upgrading weapons is more effective and easy since you get locked out based on blue prints.

I left STR at 7 until I got done pumping MIND.

Yeah, I'm going to be honest. I just got to Edwyin, and using the starter Dex weapon does NO damage whatsoever even when at 12. However, switching to the starter strength weapon does like 2x the damage even with Strength still at 7. This makes no sense to me and leaves a really bad impression. The classes are very poorly balanced. Btw, Edwyn is still very hard for me with the strength weapon. My mind stat is already at 30, but it's pretty much useless in this fight. What are they thinking?

I don't play souls games so I couldn't tell you the specifics of what they were going for. I know that even with low STR the great sword scales pretty well I took it to +4 I think and then grabbed the Ice Sword which scaled past the great sword and gives the ice status effect which is nice for mobbing.

I know that even with high MIND some spells do ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ because they scale off of two stats or have low scaling which cannot be upgraded. I don't like fumbling through the dpad to change stuff around so I never really used powders or bombs. I also saw no real reason to switch weapons either. Yeah they have weapon arts but as a spell focused build my mana was spoken for.

I took a more Hollow Knight style of approach to combat which meant not getting stuck in lengthy animations if I could help it. I also abused the fact that jumping and attacking allows you to move without getting stuck in the animations. I felt like Marth from Smash bros way more than I thought I would.

The good news is that you get a treasure trove of crap from the dark dragon thing after killing him. One of the better spells in fact.

I'd just as soon not call them classes as it is just a different distribution of 50 stat points.