I like this game. But...

[Abrasive Longjohns]

• Refill potions please.
  
• Enemy damage is insane, and I like punishing myself with all soulsborne games.
  
• Sort out the controls. Heal on a trigger, combos to pick up a box but I can pick up a box anyway...
  
• Enemies spamming through your dodge to hit you on the other side. I'll stick to Dead Cells.
  
• parry? There is another parry? Where?
  
• jump is not an iframes thing then?Jumping over enemy dogs yet they seem to midair hit you anyway.

That is it for now, I will play more tomorrow because I love the genre and the setting. Mainly because I want more bloodborne

[Valeriya]

I think this title has been overrated by both some users and the developers themselves who apparently don't listen or read the issues mentioned by users here in discussions.
It may be interesting stylistically but it's useless if the mechanics are broken or non-functional.
If it is true that the price will be around 30 dollars, I don't think it is a correct price.
Titles like Blaspemous 1 and 2 have more or less the same price but are perfects.

[Swampbunches]

I'm completely over games that overly punish you for death. Like make your game hard--I'm down AF for hard games--I don't mind working my ass off to overcome a challenge. But if a game has grindy mechanic that push me to farm for stuff rather than spending my time learning skills and getting better than I will hard pass. Like I'll play a boss over and over till I master it, but I don't wanna have to loose my momentum to farm for things between boss battles. There are too many great games out there to play a game that wastes my time.

[DarkLordSen]

Play smart and you don't have to farm. Many of us played the demo without having to farm a single healing injection. Sounds like a skill issue.

Yeah enemies are hp sponges and they hit like a truck but you've got buffs and spells. Most special attacks kill enemies in two hits.

This game is punishing but only if you play like a complete idiot.

[Summoner]

Originally posted by DarkLordSen:

Play smart and you don't have to farm. Many of us played the demo without having to farm a single healing injection. Sounds like a skill issue.

Just remove the healing completely and set the player hp to 1. If you are getting hit it's skill issue.

[DarkLordSen]

Originally posted by Summoner:

Originally posted by DarkLordSen:

Play smart and you don't have to farm. Many of us played the demo without having to farm a single healing injection. Sounds like a skill issue.

Just remove the healing completely and set the player hp to 1. If you are getting hit it's skill issue.

It's not about having it or not having it. It's about using it wisely. Clearly people that ran into healing issues didn't spend their souls when they had the chance to stock up. And if you spammed heals during the boss well that's your fault. Again play smart and get rewarded, play dumb and get punished. This game is not for the faithless.

[Summoner]

Originally posted by DarkLordSen:

And if you spammed heals during the boss well that's your fault. Again play smart and get rewarded, play dumb and get punished. This game is not for the faithless.

If you are supposed to memorize the boss patterns without using healing items before your "real boss attempt" then the healing items should be removed completely. You are not faithless, you don't need a healing item, or do you?

[DarkLordSen]

Originally posted by Summoner:

Originally posted by DarkLordSen:

And if you spammed heals during the boss well that's your fault. Again play smart and get rewarded, play dumb and get punished. This game is not for the faithless.

If you are supposed to memorize the boss patterns without using healing items before your "real boss attempt" then the healing items should be removed completely. You are not faithless, you don't need a healing item, or do you?

I said use them wisely. Not remove them. They're obviously helpful to people that know how to use them wisely. You probably just didn't play well and ran out, but just because you didn't play well doesn't mean they need to change how things work. They work well if you play smart. You just have to use your brain a little bit more and things should make sense.

[Arghesh]

I think the main issue people are having with heals is that, IMHO, the parry is supposed to be your main "heal" (yes, the parry heals you) during combat and use the injections in the "oh ♥♥♥♥, I'm going to die" scenarios but it is poorly implemented.

[StandardFiend]

Originally posted by DarkLordSen:

Originally posted by Summoner:

If you are supposed to memorize the boss patterns without using healing items before your "real boss attempt" then the healing items should be removed completely. You are not faithless, you don't need a healing item, or do you?

I said use them wisely. Not remove them. They're obviously helpful to people that know how to use them wisely. You probably just didn't play well and ran out, but just because you didn't play well doesn't mean they need to change how things work. They work well if you play smart. You just have to use your brain a little bit more and things should make sense.

The healing implementation is objectively bad. Just because you are fine with it doesn't make it good, and you're a bad person for trying to pass it off as a problem with the players who are calling it out rather than a problem with the design.

Seriously, use your own brain for two seconds and think about it. It's a mechanic that is deliberately designed to waste your time. How much time it wastes for each individual person is irrelevant; some people will waste less by being better at the game, but it's still going to happen sooner or later. If you think the demo is the peak of the game's challenge then you're delusional; eventually you'll hit your own skill wall and have to go farming.

[Arghesh]

Originally posted by StandardFiend:

and you're a bad person for trying to pass it off as a problem with the players who are calling it out rather than a problem with the design.

Seriously, use your own brain for two seconds and think about it.

I suggest you take your won advice and use your brain for two seconds instead of calling someone over the internet a "bad person" for having a different pov than you. You had somewhat of a point in the beginning but if that is your defense, one could argue you should not even invest points in stats since the game will be able to be completed even with a naked toon anyway.

The game gives you those options and it's not even a git good or gtfo kind of thing since it's not even that difficult to begin with (at least for the demo). Not going to metaphorically put words in your mouth but you're almost trying to make it look as if you needed the skill to beat the pantheon in hollow knight without getting hit.

Also

If you think the demo is the peak of the game's challenge then you're delusional; eventually you'll hit your own skill wall and have to go farming.

And now farming is this gargantuan, tedious chore because you can't spare 10/15 minutes farming low level enemies to buy CHEAP pots. Have you even looked at the price of the healing items?

Maybe it is an actual skill issue if you need that much healing always at hand.

[StandardFiend]

I didn't call him a bad person for having a different view than me, I called him a bad person for trying to pass off legitimate complaints about an objectively bad game design as players' poor choices or poor skill.

Farming low level enemies for 10/15 minutes to buy heals is the definition of a waste of time. It's the game not respecting the player's time. It doesn't add anything of value to the gameplay experience, all it does is break your flow when you're trying to get something done. Not even mentioning the fact that you can't buy however many you want--if you could, this would be a different discussion. The shop has a limit to how many you can purchase, and then you're stuck with the abysmal drop rate thereafter.

It's not a problem if you like it or tolerate it. I'm not here to police your enjoyment. But defending bad game design is just dumb.

I'm all ears if you can explain to me why having to farm for heals is a positive experience and adds to the game. I don't mean explain to me why it's not a big deal or you can ignore it--explain how and why it enhances the game and what benefit the player gets from it over having a replenishing healing system.

[Arghesh]

Originally posted by StandardFiend:

Farming low level enemies for 10/15 minutes to buy heals is the definition of a waste of time.

So is farming souls/salt to improve stats. You do it to have an easier time because you felt you were doing too little damage/taking too much damage, etc.

Never heard a single player complaining there is too much farming to comfortably kill the boss, it's all up to the player's skill.

It's the game not respecting the player's time. It doesn't add anything of value to the gameplay experience, all it does is break your flow when you're trying to get something done.Not even mentioning the fact that you can't buy however many you want--if you could, this would be a different discussion. The shop has a limit to how many you can purchase, and then you're stuck with the abysmal drop rate thereafter.

Nobody is stopping you from rushing ahead but we0re trying to make you understand that if you want to rush the game you need to have the skills to do so. Free heals every time you die is a terrible expetation that people got way too comfortable with thanks to from software. Pay up with those 15 minutes of farming and, if you run out of everything than I'm sorry to say you don't have what it takes to beat the game, plain and simple.

It's not a problem if you like it or tolerate it. I'm not here to police your enjoyment. But defending bad game design is just dumb.

Sorry but I'm not about to take your lesson about game design if those are your points

I'm all ears if you can explain to me why having to farm for heals is a positive experience and adds to the game. I don't mean explain to me why it's not a big deal or you can ignore it--explain how and why it enhances the game and what benefit the player gets from it over having a replenishing healing system.

Because you can either beat the game with skills or farming. You cannot possibly get to a point where the game locks you out of completion. Dark Souls has really ruined some of you people.

[Summoner]

Originally posted by Arghesh:

And now farming is this gargantuan, tedious chore because you can't spare 10/15 minutes farming low level enemies to buy CHEAP pots. Have you even looked at the price of the healing items?

Because you failed to kill a boss, you should be punished with meaningless busywork? Why?

If you say well learn the boss without healing items first, then why are they even in the game in the first place? Just remove them. If I am supposed to learn a boss without healing, the healing should be removed.

[DarkLordSen]

So I'm a bad person for calling out kids for having poor item management skills? I'm sorry I didn't realize people no longer have 15 mins to spare fixing their mistakes. It is indeed your mistakes that left you with no heals and no souls.

They put checkpoints before boss fights so if you went into the fight before buying out the shop that's your fault. Ideally you shouldn't be running out of heals very easily if you play well. That's all I'm saying. Could they buff the drop rate for consumables? Sure. I'm sure that would make the game much less farm heavy for bad players and incredibly rewarding for good players.

As far as the skill wall comment. We'll have to see in the full version of the game. Who knows maybe I'll get stuck on a boss and be forced to farm too. Good thing 15 mins of consumable farming doesn't sound entirely too annoying to me.

The complaints sound like a bunch of people playing poorly spaming heals and losing their souls before buying more. At least the healing injections refill from stock at shrines. That wasn't the case in bloodborne you had to go back to the hub to refill.

If parry is meant to be a main source of healing it needs a serious buff. I get that. But the only real fix for healing injections is maybe increase the drop rate and make it so enemies can drop 2-3 at a time.

[Summoner]

Originally posted by DarkLordSen:

increase the drop rate and make it so enemies can drop 2-3 at a time.

Increasing drop rate would remove any challenge from the world while still not addressing the problem. Just remove the heals completely, it's a bad mechanic.