Gloria: selfish prick

[[TE] Kuraudo]

I'm not supposed to feel bad for her, am I ? What an ungrateful pos.

[Dark White]

I'm terrified by this thread, honestly. Of all your crazy relatives you mostly blame the person who is humiliated constantly through the whole game? Wow, the empathy... just wow.

[Rodvafe]

Give her some slack. The only family she's ever known is constantly deriding her due to her status (which she can´t handle). She´ll never be able to publish her work or express herself, she can´t call father to Sir Robert, even though he´s probably a better father than her own mother, who constantly chastises her according to her own faith. And we all know that the empire´s lot system would make tzarist russia seems meritocratic. On the other hand is sad, since she sees all of her brothers (including Stephan) as such, even though you might be willing to sell her in order to attain hereditary nobility, and also, her "husband to be" apparently might be the only person (apart from Sir Brante) that truly loves her as she is.

[bridgeofblues]

Rodvafe の投稿を引用：

Give her some slack. The only family she's ever known is constantly deriding her due to her status (which she can´t handle). She´ll never be able to publish her work or express herself, she can´t call father to Sir Robert, even though he´s probably a better father than her own mother, who constantly chastises her according to her own faith. And we all know that the empire´s lot system would make tzarist russia seems meritocratic. On the other hand is sad, since she sees all of her brothers (including Stephan) as such, even though you might be willing to sell her in order to attain hereditary nobility, and also, her "husband to be" apparently might be the only person (apart from Sir Brante) that truly loves her as she is.

Of why I you can only pull off that relationship with our husband if you keep in contact with her. Which you could use to spark duel with your brother.

[Whisky]

Dark White の投稿を引用：

I'm terrified by this thread, honestly. Of all your crazy relatives you mostly blame the person who is humiliated constantly through the whole game? Wow, the empathy... just wow.

You're right.

Out of all people in the family Gloria and Nathan are the most sympathetic. The Father is too much of a coward to not only stand up for his own wife but also against our insane grandfather. The grandfather himself is a massive prick who ends up burning the house down, the Mom deteriorates fast and almost kills her own child in a fit of postpartum depression, and Stephan is too in love with the idea of advancement at any cost even though he is a massive hypocrite carrying on a love affair with someone he's not supposed to, which is an actual crime with real life consequences compared to Gloria's poetry.

Apparently no one cares about family values these days so the massive hate on Gloria for interfering with "perfect" reputation/enobled runs makes sense. If you're mad because your ass kissing to degenerates and the wealthy elites has turned Gloria into a stumbling block then you deserve to suffer Gloria's rebellion lmao and I sure fear for any future kids you might have because you've proven that when push comes to shove you'll place your own ambitions over their well being. Also not a surprise that so many complain about Octavia leaving the world ha now SHE was a character who actually had absolutely zero redeeming qualities and it just shows how corrupt people's thoughts are.

[Das Boot]

Whisky の投稿を引用：

Apparently no one cares about family values these days so the massive hate on Gloria for interfering with "perfect" reputation/ennobled runs makes sense. If you're mad because your ass kissing to degenerates and the wealthy elites has turned Gloria into a stumbling block then you deserve to suffer Gloria's rebellion.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

The whole reason Gloria joined a poetry society is because she had no other opportunity for fulfillment in life. Because she was born an illegitimate commoner she couldn't look forward to a good marriage, and because she was a girl she couldn't go to the Capital and study to become a Judge like her younger brother.

Theoretically she could have studied in the Seminary and become a Priestess like Jeanne, but her parents never considered that for her.

To be honest, I'm not sure Gloria even likes guys. If you marry her to Jose and keep in contact then she comes out of her depression and becomes a devoted mother, but the epilogue only says that she is grateful to Jose - not that she loves him back. If she stays with the Brantes then the epilogue makes no mention of her marrying for love.

Whisky の投稿を引用：

Also not a surprise that so many complain about Octavia leaving the world ha now SHE was a character who actually had absolutely zero redeeming qualities and it just shows how corrupt people's thoughts are.

I can understand that sentiment. When Octavia propositions you she summons you to her castle under false-pretenses and orders you to be her pet - it takes willpower to refuse her because of how intimidating she made the circumstances. If you agree to submit to her (rather than demanding a relationship on equal terms) the narration strongly suggests Sir Brante does not enjoy the experience. If you refuse then she threatens your family and later tries to use her influence to humiliate you at a party.

Then of course there's her leaving the world in the La-Tari ritual. If you submitted then it's proof of her selfishness, and you became her lover as an equal then it shows Octavia didn't care enough about you enough to stay in the world. When you meet her again she seems gleeful at the world she left burning around her.

When I do noble playthroughs I usually play a Sir Brante who submitted out of self-preservation, who frankly considered it a relief when he was free of her, and who parted with her on bad terms. I'm imagining him telling her during the revolt something along the lines of "You're wrong. This world is worth protecting, and Twins willing I will save it."

Honestly I like Octavia best in the Priest Path, when you choose the option to preach to the La-Tari cult. There she bares her soul and humbly admits to her inner turmoil, and you lead her to put her faith in the Twins.

[OutlawedDrifter]

Dark White の投稿を引用：

I'm terrified by this thread, honestly. Of all your crazy relatives you mostly blame the person who is humiliated constantly through the whole game? Wow, the empathy... just wow.

Indeed, Gloria said it herself perfectly, it is complete hypocrisy that she must bear the weight of a noble name without any of the benefits.

[Fedup]

Have a Nice Day の投稿を引用：

The problem I have with Gloria is this: yes, I understand that the injustice in the Empire is an absolute travesty and needs to be remedied. I think most reasonable people can agree with that. The thing is that she's not looking at the big picture and considers only her wants and needs without giving a single thought to papa and mummy. Stephan is very similar, but at least unlike Gloria, he's trying to make decisions for the betterment of the family's reputation, even if he's a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about it.

Gloria puts her own interests above everything, including the safety of the two people she should care the most about, her parents. Especially Robert, who is an exceptionally good person within the context of the setting. Stephan and Gloria butt heads so much because their extremism is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, although Stephan's ambition/selfishness is far less likely to lead the house to ruin since he goes with the grain as opposed to against it (so long as he remains within the family, that is).

I haven't finished the game yet (1st run, Nobleman, trying to get acknowledged by the sword while still loyal to the family) and...

spoilers about chapter 4:


I am stunned at how spoiled she suddenly seems when she's presented with a marriage to a certain nobleman. By her own admission:
- He's easy on the eyes
- He's respected
Said nobleman has never given me reason to think he will be cruel to her and his persistence to marry that low-born woman AGAINST the wishes of his father (what that reminds me...) indicates that he loves her.

And Gloria doesn't want to because she ... would have to behave like a proper wife. So, when she first said "No nobleman would marry me" she meant "no nobleman would want the scandal that comes with marrying a lowborn bastard AND accept my capriciousness."

Gloria, I understand you want more for yourself than be the trophy-wife of a lord. But it is either that lord with a good chance to slowly turn him around to your way of thinking OR... remaining a lowborn!
Yes, life isn't fair. I agree. But that's the situation. And considering other choices I had to do, THIS IS NOT A HARD ONE GLORIA!!!!

(Well, and enobling Gloria somehow according to the achievements although I don't see how this is possible).


\ rant over.

[TheBerserker]

Coin の投稿を引用：

TheBerserker の投稿を引用：

And i haven't disregarded the deaths that the Russian Rev caused, on the contrary, i just stated facts about the improvments it has brought as well. And also, i wouldn't trust those numbers easily found on the internet, they are usually quite exacerbated. It's fairly common to associate every death under a regime to it to extrapolate the number of casualties, that's why results vary so much from historian to historian.

Well let's just use a simple singular fact: starvation. Millions of Ukrainians starved to death. It wasn't just them either, but that's the big example. Revolutions are indeed mostly garbage that destabilizes the country and usually whatever the injustice people claim they want to fix is nowhere near worth the bloodshed and the aftermath of a revolution.

Das Boot の投稿を引用：

While gradual reforms can bring incremental changes, they are far less effective than force.

Force is good (arguably) when you're maintaining order and advancing interests of your country and people, and when you're bringing the order down it's just harm and malice.

Whatever your opinions are I gave an example of a successful revolution that saved its country of a blood sucking aristocracy that stalled its own country's advancement for generations and turned it from a feudal society to one of the world biggest economies of its time.

[TheBerserker]

Coin の投稿を引用：

TE Kuraudo の投稿を引用：

Hell, I'll go one step further: Gloria is the root of all evil and if the game allowed you to kill her in the most painful way possible, all the problems of society would be resolved and everyone would walk hand in hand as equals.

Considering that her actions can bring down the entire family, she might as well be the biggest enemy.

TheBerserker の投稿を引用：

Why the ♥♥♥♥ should people care about reputation, an abstract concept of approval, in a society divided between high hierarchy nobles deservers of rights and human garbages that live to suffer?

Because your survival and survival of your family hinges on that. If someone, anyone, is putting you and your family lives at risk and stand their ground, the best thing you can do is get rid of them. She can become noble if the family reaches full noble status can't she. She can be married to a noble as well. There're options. And the best one for her is to obey her lot.

How does her actions can bring down her family? You can screw up your family's reputation yourself and the game won't end, no one dies. Because, as I said, reputation is an abstract concept of approval and hierarchy (which is the theme of the game), no one's survival hinges on it. What is a threat to everyone's survival is a societal system based on castes and heritages with little to no social mobility. It asks for a revolution (which is the story of the game).. Why do you think those concepts were abandoned ages ago in every civilized country in our world? Because it didn't work and people died. Should Sophia obey her lot and be a slave for Dorius Otton just because her society is organized that way? Would you? If you do, your opinion comes from the perspective of someone who knows nothing of history and oppression.

[[TE] Kuraudo]

After all this time, I have come to one conclusion: REDACTED

I am, however, willing to say that I am horrified at some of the calls for 'empathy' with the monster woman in this thread.

[MoreEvilSquid]

The annoying thing for me personally with Gloria is that this Peletier (who is obsessed with her), is, apart from being a bit obsessive, not a bad guy compared to whoever else would want to marry her. Once married she's pretty much free to write poetry or whatever.

Yeah sure it's an arranged marriage etc., but that's surely the case for many others in Brante's world, even nobles (due to political alliances etc).

[MoreEvilSquid]

Das Boot の投稿を引用：

Whisky の投稿を引用：

Apparently no one cares about family values these days so the massive hate on Gloria for interfering with "perfect" reputation/ennobled runs makes sense. If you're mad because your ass kissing to degenerates and the wealthy elites has turned Gloria into a stumbling block then you deserve to suffer Gloria's rebellion.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

The whole reason Gloria joined a poetry society is because she had no other opportunity for fulfillment in life. Because she was born an illegitimate commoner she couldn't look forward to a good marriage, and because she was a girl she couldn't go to the Capital and study to become a Judge like her younger brother.

Theoretically she could have studied in the Seminary and become a Priestess like Jeanne, but her parents never considered that for her.

To be honest, I'm not sure Gloria even likes guys. If you marry her to Jose and keep in contact then she comes out of her depression and becomes a devoted mother, but the epilogue only says that she is grateful to Jose - not that she loves him back. If she stays with the Brantes then the epilogue makes no mention of her marrying for love.

Whisky の投稿を引用：

Also not a surprise that so many complain about Octavia leaving the world ha now SHE was a character who actually had absolutely zero redeeming qualities and it just shows how corrupt people's thoughts are.

I can understand that sentiment. When Octavia propositions you she summons you to her castle under false-pretenses and orders you to be her pet - it takes willpower to refuse her because of how intimidating she made the circumstances. If you agree to submit to her (rather than demanding a relationship on equal terms) the narration strongly suggests Sir Brante does not enjoy the experience. If you refuse then she threatens your family and later tries to use her influence to humiliate you at a party.

Then of course there's her leaving the world in the La-Tari ritual. If you submitted then it's proof of her selfishness, and you became her lover as an equal then it shows Octavia didn't care enough about you enough to stay in the world. When you meet her again she seems gleeful at the world she left burning around her.

When I do noble playthroughs I usually play a Sir Brante who submitted out of self-preservation, who frankly considered it a relief when he was free of her, and who parted with her on bad terms. I'm imagining him telling her during the revolt something along the lines of "You're wrong. This world is worth protecting, and Twins willing I will save it."

Heh, I usually hand over the husk that was Octavia over to the inquisition. It definitely doesn't sound like a fun time for her (though since it's most likely not really Octavia in the husk any more who knows).

[MoreEvilSquid]

Whisky の投稿を引用：

Dark White の投稿を引用：

Apparently no one cares about family values these days so the massive hate on Gloria for interfering with "perfect" reputation/enobled runs makes sense. If you're mad because your ass kissing to degenerates and the wealthy elites has turned Gloria into a stumbling block then you deserve to suffer Gloria's rebellion lmao and I sure fear for any future kids you might have because you've proven that when push comes to shove you'll place your own ambitions over their well being. Also not a surprise that so many complain about Octavia leaving the world ha now SHE was a character who actually had absolutely zero redeeming qualities and it just shows how corrupt people's thoughts are.

Well the thing with Octavia is... she's kind of hot. And she's pretty damn useful in a noble run.

I agree that it pretty much makes sense that Gloria is a "stumbling block" for a noble run - that's pretty much the point IMO. She's exists primarily so that you need to make choices - do you actually care about your family, or is nobility more important?

Of course, as with similar situations in real life, you can't exactly blame anyone for choosing nobility and screwing over your sister when push comes to shove. If the choice is: accept Gloria, but never get ennobled by the sword - or get ennobled and sacrifice her in the process (and attempting to do so in a nice a way as possible) - IMO it's a pretty easy choice.

In similar situations back when feudalism was a thing, it wasn't exactly uncommon to have troublesome female family members committed to asylums or forced into a nunnery, or worse. We actually get choices that are not as bad as that.

[Das Boot]

Fedup の投稿を引用：

I am stunned at how spoiled she suddenly seems when she's presented with a marriage to a certain nobleman. By her own admission:
- He's easy on the eyes
- He's respected
Said nobleman has never given me reason to think he will be cruel to her and his persistence to marry that low-born woman AGAINST the wishes of his father (what that reminds me...) indicates that he loves her.

And Gloria doesn't want to because she ... would have to behave like a proper wife. So, when she first said "No nobleman would marry me" she meant "no nobleman would want the scandal that comes with marrying a lowborn bastard AND accept my capriciousness."

Gloria, I understand you want more for yourself than be the trophy-wife of a lord. But it is either that lord with a good chance to slowly turn him around to your way of thinking OR... remaining a lowborn!
Yes, life isn't fair. I agree. But that's the situation. And considering other choices I had to do, THIS IS NOT A HARD ONE GLORIA!!!!

That's only half of it. The bigger reason for why Gloria doesn't want to marry Jose is that she sees it as an attempt to get her out of the family. At the start of the game she exists in a grey area - in the household but a perpetual outsider. What she desperately wants is for Robert Brante to call her "my daughter", to know he sees her as more than a burden.

I won't say more, because I don't want to spoil too much.

[MoreEvilSquid]

Das Boot の投稿を引用：

Fedup の投稿を引用：

I am stunned at how spoiled she suddenly seems when she's presented with a marriage to a certain nobleman. By her own admission:
- He's easy on the eyes
- He's respected
Said nobleman has never given me reason to think he will be cruel to her and his persistence to marry that low-born woman AGAINST the wishes of his father (what that reminds me...) indicates that he loves her.

And Gloria doesn't want to because she ... would have to behave like a proper wife. So, when she first said "No nobleman would marry me" she meant "no nobleman would want the scandal that comes with marrying a lowborn bastard AND accept my capriciousness."

Gloria, I understand you want more for yourself than be the trophy-wife of a lord. But it is either that lord with a good chance to slowly turn him around to your way of thinking OR... remaining a lowborn!
Yes, life isn't fair. I agree. But that's the situation. And considering other choices I had to do, THIS IS NOT A HARD ONE GLORIA!!!!

That's only half of it. The bigger reason for why Gloria doesn't want to marry Jose is that she sees it as an attempt to get her out of the family. At the start of the game she exists in a grey area - in the household but a perpetual outsider. What she desperately wants is for Robert Brante to call her "my daughter", to know he sees her as more than a burden.

I won't say more, because I don't want to spoil too much.

Yeah sure, it's kind of a slap in the face, "get out of the way" kind of thing for Gloria - I get that - but all things considered she'll at least be able to do the things she's wanted to do without harassment. For the society in the game, it's the best deal she could have expected.