Gloria: selfish prick

[[TE] Kuraudo]

I'm not supposed to feel bad for her, am I ? What an ungrateful pos.

[Dethlane]

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

lol, I guess people revolted because they were too happy. And now Tommas is not oppressed because you can save him (if you have some resources to spare, granted)?

Not a witty take at all. And do tell me, where did I say that people were happy with the way things are or that Tommas wasn't oppressed at all.

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

I never said Gloria is the culprit of anything, but her sole purpose is throwing tantrums and being overall useless while you are struggling to survive

Except that you did:

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

Gloria is living a privilieged life and while everyone else in the family is trying to keep the boat afloat and has to endure compromises and sacrifices (you and your father especially, but also Nathan, your mother and lastly Stephan) she is constantly moaning and throwing tantrums while being a complete freeloader until her 30s! She antagonizes every person who could help her, all the while not giving a damn about helping others (while they are living their own struggle). The best ending for everyone (and not just for Gloria) is the one where all the chickens come home to roost for her, and she is married by Peletier, this should tell you something.

You straight out say that Gloria is the source of all family disputes, tensions, animosity and unrest (which couldn't be farther from the actual picture). You also claim her useless and not helping others, which is same as previous remark.

[wusch]

Well, Gloria lives a life of never fully being accepted into the family and when you are adults, she is pretty much constantly in danger of just being abandoned or married against her will to someone she is not interested in. Who wouldn't rebel against that and constantly fight against the person being the root of this (Stefan in this case).

If Gloria is a selfish prick, then so is everyone else even more so.

[Feral Beagle]

I'm on the fence on whether I like or hate Gloria's character, but I tend to lean a little more on the side of like. Even though she does act like a brat, she has every right to be angry about being forced into a position that could've been different. Her only real solaces are things she shouldn't be doing and Stephan will treat her pretty horribly due to Grandpa Brante's influence. The player can only really stop Stephan by killing him, making him ♥♥♥♥ off, or convincing him that a stable family is way more important than hereditary nobility.

In fact, I don't think the entire problem is her family status, but rather a need to belong. Keep in mind that she's the only "member" of the Brante family that isn't actually a real member. She doesn't have a single drop of Brante blood in her veins. Her mere existence is a liability and she's treated as such. This is especially true when one of her caretakers is the head of a predominantly noble family on the edge of promotion. This makes her search for other people who feel like outcasts, and conform to their ideas and finally find her own place to fit in. When she acts out, it's in response to the fact her family situation allows her almost no voice, which makes poetry would be a perfect outlet. All she wants to have is some say in her fate, and not let it be dictated to her by people who may not care about her. Even when you get her married off, her no longer writing poetry implies that her new situation has provided her either contentment or complete imprisonment. There are two variations to her marriage ending for this reason. Even though she finally has a place, it's only good if she has contentment or bad if what remains of her independence is eradicated.

That makes her actions mostly redeemable to me. However, her constant need to create drama is incredibly annoying when your plans don't exactly align with hers. When it comes to characters in this game, I try to look at them as merely an obstacle or pawn in my plans for success. Sometimes Gloria's good to me a noble, sometimes she's good to me a peasant. Sometimes she's even good when you just let her leave on her own. If you actively prepare for that eventuality, the actual act isn't so bad.

[[TE] Kuraudo]

Originally posted by Puppyz:

I used mother to influence her (-1 unity), Gloria mentions how he actually loves her and doesn't mind she's not a noble, helps her pursuit everything she wants in life, but she loses inspiration to write because she's not 'oppressed' anymore lol

Are you kidding me? I didn't think it was possible to hate her even more, but then here we are.

[[TE] Kuraudo]

Originally posted by Dethlane:

You straight out say that Gloria is the source of all family disputes, tensions, animosity and unrest (which couldn't be farther from the actual picture). You also claim her useless and not helping others, which is same as previous remark.

I agree with the take that Gloria is the root of all of the family's problems. Gregor's desires aren't really all that strange given the society and Robert is just a pushover so he might as well not even be a father. Lydia sacrifices for the good of the family and Stephan is trying his best to make people happy while fulfilling his grandfather's desires. Nathan is an embarassment, but at least he isn't actively sabotaging everything.

Hell, I'll go one step further: Gloria is the root of all evil and if the game allowed you to kill her in the most painful way possible, all the problems of society would be resolved and everyone would walk hand in hand as equals.

"damn, I thought ALL commoners were as stupid as that gloria!"
"Damn, I thought ALL nobles were as stupid as that gloria!"
Harmony.

Originally posted by Feral Beagle:

I'm on the fence on whether I like or hate Gloria's character, but I tend to lean a little more on the side of like. Even though she does act like a brat, she has every right to be angry about being forced into a position that could've been different. Her only real solaces are things she shouldn't be doing and Stephan will treat her pretty horribly due to Grandpa Brante's influence. The player can only really stop Stephan by killing him, making him ♥♥♥♥ off, or convincing him that a stable family is way more important than hereditary nobility.

She, literally, has no such rights; she's lucky that someone was willing to take her worthless self in. Worst of all, her place in society is massively privileged compared to commoners who have an actual grievance. Stephan reminding of her place in a society where commoners can elevate themselves beyond their station is completely on point and reasonable. Don't like it? Go study to be a noble or a priest. You aren't living in a caste system and you have the means to gain education with that family. Listening to her whine about not being able to read aloud poetry, a crime in this society, is the most selfish crap I've ever read.

Originally posted by Feral Beagle:

In fact, I don't think the entire problem is her family status, but rather a need to belong.

Life sucks, get over it. Instead of being grateful and doing what she can to properly support the Brante family she actively sabotages it. I'm still in a fury remembering her skipping out on her wedding and ruining the family's reputation after I went out of my way to keep a place for her at unity 10. Again, she's lucky to be alive, let alone living in a rich household. If a rich kid like her tried to join my commoner revolution, she'd be the first one at the guillotine. There are real life precedents for this during the reign of terror for a reason. They deserved what they got in real life as well.

Originally posted by Feral Beagle:

Even when you get her married off, her no longer writing poetry implies that her new situation has provided her either contentment or complete imprisonment. There are two variations to her marriage ending for this reason. Even though she finally has a place, it's only good if she has contentment or bad if what remains of her independence is eradicated.

#firstworldproblems this is why people hate her.

Originally posted by wusch:

Well, Gloria lives a life of never fully being accepted into the family and when you are adults, she is pretty much constantly in danger of just being abandoned or married against her will to someone she is not interested in. Who wouldn't rebel against that and constantly fight against the person being the root of this (Stefan in this case).

In danger, why? Stefan clearly loves her as shown multiple times throughout the story and is constantly assuring her of her position despite the fact that she is a completely useless person who does nothing for the family. Stefan goes out of his way to find a place for her so that he can balance his grandfather's desires (which are completely reasonable given their society) and his sister's wishes. Then, for some reason, at unity 10, the absolute b*tch, c*nt, human garbage, ruins the family's reputation. She could have been like "no i will not do this" or even run away before, but nooooo right in front of the groom. If the game let me, I would spend all the family's wealth on assassins for her.

You are reading too much into what she whines about instead of the actual situation. I'm STILL angry about it and I think the nobility should all eat swords.

[Lon]

The family exists in this game as a plot device to personalize the struggles of the greater society to the player. Stephen represents honor, Gloria rebellion, and Nathan religion. Family as a unit of affection only exists when the children are still children. When they grow up, family for Stephen becomes a machine for his own personal glory and immortality, for Gloria it represents the old order that needs to be destroyed, and for Nathan, his only real family exists in the company of his mother and the Gods.

Its likely the family will have to fall apart at some point because the game's plot revolves around class struggle and revolution. This has parallels in our own world where humanity had honor-based societies and individual-rights based societies. In an honor-based society it would have been appropriate for a father to kill a family member for dishonoring the family because family as an institution for power matters more than individual happiness. For a rights-based society such actions are considered murder and family matters less than personal happiness. The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante captures that in its story telling. To that end, TLaSoSB is a social commentary as much as it is a game and the struggle of keeping a united family in a changing world while aiming for any other objective is hard because each character is aiming to do what is best for themselves even if that means destroying another's happiness.

[Feral Beagle]

Originally posted by Uninstall during finals - A.:

The family exists in this game as a plot device to personalize the struggles of the greater society to the player. Stephen represents honor, Gloria rebellion, and Nathan religion. Family as a unit of affection only exists when the children are still children. When they grow up, family for Stephen becomes a machine for his own personal glory and immortality, for Gloria it represents the old order that needs to be destroyed, and for Nathan, his only real family exists in the company of his mother and the Gods.

Its likely the family will have to fall apart at some point because the game's plot revolves around class struggle and revolution. This has parallels in our own world where humanity had honor-based societies and individual-rights based societies. In an honor-based society it would have been appropriate for a father to kill a family member for dishonoring the family because family as an institution for power matters more than individual happiness. For a rights-based society such actions are considered murder and family matters less than personal happiness. The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante captures that in its story telling. To that end, TLaSoSB is a social commentary as much as it is a game and the struggle of keeping a united family in a changing world while aiming for any other objective is hard because each character is aiming to do what is best for themselves even if that means destroying another's happiness.

This is low-key the best explanation for why every character in the game really sucks, except for maybe Tommas (that guy gets screwed over hard).

[Spoink]

Originally posted by Uninstall during finals - A.:

The family exists in this game as a plot device to personalize the struggles of the greater society to the player. Stephen represents honor, Gloria rebellion, and Nathan religion. Family as a unit of affection only exists when the children are still children. When they grow up, family for Stephen becomes a machine for his own personal glory and immortality, for Gloria it represents the old order that needs to be destroyed, and for Nathan, his only real family exists in the company of his mother and the Gods.

Its likely the family will have to fall apart at some point because the game's plot revolves around class struggle and revolution. This has parallels in our own world where humanity had honor-based societies and individual-rights based societies. In an honor-based society it would have been appropriate for a father to kill a family member for dishonoring the family because family as an institution for power matters more than individual happiness. For a rights-based society such actions are considered murder and family matters less than personal happiness. The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante captures that in its story telling. To that end, TLaSoSB is a social commentary as much as it is a game and the struggle of keeping a united family in a changing world while aiming for any other objective is hard because each character is aiming to do what is best for themselves even if that means destroying another's happiness.

Totally agree here, I really felt like a mother cat trying to keep her kittens from falling too far whenever I looked at their affinity to me. Like stay, together. damnit.
I was kind of relieved when gramps died clutching his pearls from anger and was like oh heck yeah that's one less person to worry about. Then he spoke from the grave and I was like of course. Of course I now have to worry about keeping someone happy beyond the grave.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Originally posted by Dethlane:

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

lol, I guess people revolted because they were too happy. And now Tommas is not oppressed because you can save him (if you have some resources to spare, granted)?

Not a witty take at all. And do tell me, where did I say that people were happy with the way things are or that Tommas wasn't oppressed at all.

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

I never said Gloria is the culprit of anything, but her sole purpose is throwing tantrums and being overall useless while you are struggling to survive

Except that you did:

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

Gloria is living a privilieged life and while everyone else in the family is trying to keep the boat afloat and has to endure compromises and sacrifices (you and your father especially, but also Nathan, your mother and lastly Stephan) she is constantly moaning and throwing tantrums while being a complete freeloader until her 30s! She antagonizes every person who could help her, all the while not giving a damn about helping others (while they are living their own struggle). The best ending for everyone (and not just for Gloria) is the one where all the chickens come home to roost for her, and she is married by Peletier, this should tell you something.

You straight out say that Gloria is the source of all family disputes, tensions, animosity and unrest (which couldn't be farther from the actual picture). You also claim her useless and not helping others, which is same as previous remark.

I still cant read the part where I said she is the source of every single problem, sorry. Maybe you could highlight it for me?

[Radene]

Originally posted by Feral Beagle:

Originally posted by Uninstall during finals - A.:

The family exists in this game as a plot device to personalize the struggles of the greater society to the player. Stephen represents honor, Gloria rebellion, and Nathan religion. Family as a unit of affection only exists when the children are still children. When they grow up, family for Stephen becomes a machine for his own personal glory and immortality, for Gloria it represents the old order that needs to be destroyed, and for Nathan, his only real family exists in the company of his mother and the Gods.

Its likely the family will have to fall apart at some point because the game's plot revolves around class struggle and revolution. This has parallels in our own world where humanity had honor-based societies and individual-rights based societies. In an honor-based society it would have been appropriate for a father to kill a family member for dishonoring the family because family as an institution for power matters more than individual happiness. For a rights-based society such actions are considered murder and family matters less than personal happiness. The Life and Suffering of Sir Brante captures that in its story telling. To that end, TLaSoSB is a social commentary as much as it is a game and the struggle of keeping a united family in a changing world while aiming for any other objective is hard because each character is aiming to do what is best for themselves even if that means destroying another's happiness.

This is low-key the best explanation for why every character in the game really sucks, except for maybe Tommas (that guy gets screwed over hard).

In harsh times, people are frightened which makes them selfish. Who would have thought!

Half related, Nathan grates my nerves more than Gloria. That guy couldn't find his own backside if Gregor gave him a paddling.

I mean, if you want to keep the family together, he's important, but he really needs to learn to stand on his own two feet.

[AWildAmericanAppears]

I was on the fence about my dislike of her. Most of the playthroughs that failed were due to her in some form. I get it, Stephan hounds her, she isn't allowed to write poetry, she doesn't like the nobles... all fair points. But what really tipped the scales was the ending of the Rebellion storyline with Sophia

Gloria has an end card that states she didn't even take part in the rebellion. All the ♥♥♥♥ she was spewing throughout the game, the Lots, the nobles, not being able to do what she wanted to do... she never acted, she never tried to actually improve her situation, outside of trying to force Roberts hand to adopt her. I thought I would run into her doing something with a rebel cell, or got tangled up with Sophia, in the Lotless path. Nope, just writing poetry and complaining about the world. I'm out there on the walls fighting for a free city and she never thinks to join. That along with how she acts if you marry her off and give her the chance to do what she loves, she loses her "inspiration". All of it just screams victim mentality

[Radene]

Originally posted by AWildAmericanAppears:

I was on the fence about my dislike of her. Most of the playthroughs that failed were due to her in some form. I get it, Stephan hounds her, she isn't allowed to write poetry, she doesn't like the nobles... all fair points. But what really tipped the scales was the ending of the Rebellion storyline with Sophia

Gloria has an end card that states she didn't even take part in the rebellion. All the ♥♥♥♥ she was spewing throughout the game, the Lots, the nobles, not being able to do what she wanted to do... she never acted, she never tried to actually improve her situation, outside of trying to force Roberts hand to adopt her. I thought I would run into her doing something with a rebel cell, or got tangled up with Sophia, in the Lotless path. Nope, just writing poetry and complaining about the world. I'm out there on the walls fighting for a free city and she never thinks to join. That along with how she acts if you marry her off and give her the chance to do what she loves, she loses her "inspiration". All of it just screams victim mentality

Username checks out xD

No but really - some people just aren't into violence, and try to find other ways. That's okay, the world needs more than just "taking up arms". What's the point of replacing men with swords with men with guns when it comes to power and control?

[Mr. Wiggles]

Originally posted by Radene:

Originally posted by AWildAmericanAppears:

I was on the fence about my dislike of her. Most of the playthroughs that failed were due to her in some form. I get it, Stephan hounds her, she isn't allowed to write poetry, she doesn't like the nobles... all fair points. But what really tipped the scales was the ending of the Rebellion storyline with Sophia

Gloria has an end card that states she didn't even take part in the rebellion. All the ♥♥♥♥ she was spewing throughout the game, the Lots, the nobles, not being able to do what she wanted to do... she never acted, she never tried to actually improve her situation, outside of trying to force Roberts hand to adopt her. I thought I would run into her doing something with a rebel cell, or got tangled up with Sophia, in the Lotless path. Nope, just writing poetry and complaining about the world. I'm out there on the walls fighting for a free city and she never thinks to join. That along with how she acts if you marry her off and give her the chance to do what she loves, she loses her "inspiration". All of it just screams victim mentality

Username checks out xD

No but really - some people just aren't into violence, and try to find other ways. That's okay, the world needs more than just "taking up arms". What's the point of replacing men with swords with men with guns when it comes to power and control?

The wild american has two valid points, a revolution needs politicians and intellectuals too. Nathan with ypur help can become an important figure during the war and he clearly has at heart what is happening

[Radene]

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

Originally posted by Radene:

Username checks out xD

No but really - some people just aren't into violence, and try to find other ways. That's okay, the world needs more than just "taking up arms". What's the point of replacing men with swords with men with guns when it comes to power and control?

The wild american has two valid points, a revolution needs politicians and intellectuals too. Nathan with ypur help can become an important figure during the war and he clearly has at heart what is happening

Yeah, but not at the front lines.

Yeah. You just need to endure his ineptitude and all the drama he gets you into for twenty-something years. A family oriented Brante does thar, ofc, but a career oriented one would not.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Originally posted by Radene:

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

The wild american has two valid points, a revolution needs politicians and intellectuals too. Nathan with ypur help can become an important figure during the war and he clearly has at heart what is happening

Yeah, but not at the front lines.

Yeah. You just need to endure his ineptitude and all the drama he gets you into for twenty-something years. A family oriented Brante does thar, ofc, but a career oriented one would not.

I am not 100% sure but I think to remember you just need the Tree revelation event, gather 4 attention and trigger the insight event on chapter 1, in the next chapter use it to meditate with the tree and having the revelation. In the last chapter it should ve enough to make Nathan a prophet