Gloria: selfish prick

[[TE] Kuraudo]

I'm not supposed to feel bad for her, am I ? What an ungrateful pos.

[Mac Tonight]

The problem I have with Gloria is this: yes, I understand that the injustice in the Empire is an absolute travesty and needs to be remedied. I think most reasonable people can agree with that. The thing is that she's not looking at the big picture and considers only her wants and needs without giving a single thought to papa and mummy. Stephan is very similar, but at least unlike Gloria, he's trying to make decisions for the betterment of the family's reputation, even if he's a complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about it.

Gloria puts her own interests above everything, including the safety of the two people she should care the most about, her parents. Especially Robert, who is an exceptionally good person within the context of the setting. Stephan and Gloria butt heads so much because their extremism is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, although Stephan's ambition/selfishness is far less likely to lead the house to ruin since he goes with the grain as opposed to against it (so long as he remains within the family, that is).

[thefollowingcharacters]

Gloria is simply spoiled in regards to having the luxury of not needing to work. However, this luxury also removes any responsibility for her own well being from herself. As such, she is in a gilded cage. Forced to do nothing, and encouraged to remove all ambition. If she was able to work for herself, perhaps she would be more understanding of the situation. As it is, it is her Lot in life.

[Das Boot]

I have to disagree.

I've had some playthroughs where Sir Brante united the family, and in that event it's made clear that the family has to choose between unity and reputation. Robert chooses family, saying that gossip no longer scares him, and even Stephan comes around. Right after that event Gloria is adopted by Robert.

Indeed, having low reputation never has a cost beyond the opportunity cost of being unable to be ennobled by the sword. What good is ennobling the family if the people in it can't stand each other?

[Puppyz]

Originally posted by Das Boot:

I have to disagree.

I've had some playthroughs where Sir Brante united the family, and in that event it's made clear that the family has to choose between unity and reputation. Robert chooses family, saying that gossip no longer scares him, and even Stephan comes around. Right after that event Gloria is adopted by Robert.

Indeed, having low reputation never has a cost beyond the opportunity cost of being unable to be ennobled by the sword. What good is ennobling the family if the people in it can't stand each other?

And that makes Gloria less of a selfish prick how?
Anyway in response to the topic
if you marry her off to a noble family she's allowed to do all her poetry and stuff, then she just mentions she lost 'inspiration' now that she's allowed to lmao. She has no redeeming qualities, she just wants drama.

[[TE] Kuraudo]

But that's the thing: she consistently causes problems because "oh I want to write poetry" or "oh, I want to do X against all societal norms which I know will only bring further grief and strife within my family."

Her selfishness is next-level spoiled brat. Gloria is maximum spoiled american #firstWorldProblems while the rest of the world around her suffers in poverty. And then, when a solution is given to her selfish demands to do what she wants, nope it's not good enough for her and the good of the family be dammed. I wish there was an option to quietly remove that embarrassment somehow.

if you conspire to marry her off, does she actually go through with it? I had family unity at 10 after refusing to help either brother or sister scheme, and then she still was set to be married... fine except the c*nt ran off right in front of the groom after acting like a crazy lady. -2 reputation. Selfish B*tch, at least run off before we finalize the wedding after you've been freeloading for god knows how long. All that effort I spent defending that jerk; she's complete scum. Gregor Brante of all people completely vindicated. Author, what are you trying to tell us?

[Das Boot]

Originally posted by Puppyz:

And that makes Gloria less of a selfish prick how?

Because it shows that what the "problems" Gloria causes for the family really aren't that significant. The other nobles gossip about them, so what? They can survive with that.

Meanwhile Stephan's trying to separate her from her mother and half-siblings for no other reason than because he thinks her existence is an embarrassment. He values parties and a title more than the people he grew up alongside. Not just Gloria, but the rest of her family - Stephan tries to usurp Robert's role as head of the family, constantly belittles Nathan, and leads Sir Brante into an ambush by the old aristocracy if you value justice in your career as a judge.

It literally takes Lydia almost dying combined with peer-pressure from his brother and father for him to see how he's been acting like a jerk, and even then he intentionally missed Gloria's adoption ceremony.

[Mr. Wiggles]

I always marry her off, this way she stops busting everyone else's balls and her only victim is her husband.
She is Madame Bovary incarnated.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madame_Bovary

[Mr. Wiggles]

Originally posted by Das Boot:

Originally posted by Puppyz:

And that makes Gloria less of a selfish prick how?

Because it shows that what the "problems" Gloria causes for the family really aren't that significant. The other nobles gossip about them, so what? They can survive with that.

Meanwhile Stephan's trying to separate her from her mother and half-siblings for no other reason than because he thinks her existence is an embarrassment. He values parties and a title more than the people he grew up alongside. Not just Gloria, but the rest of her family - Stephan tries to usurp Robert's role as head of the family, constantly belittles Nathan, and leads Sir Brante into an ambush by the old aristocracy if you value justice in your career as a judge.

It literally takes Lydia almost dying combined with peer-pressure from his brother and father for him to see how he's been acting like a jerk, and even then he intentionally missed Gloria's adoption ceremony.

Gloria is living a privilieged life and while everyone else in the family is trying to keep the boat afloat and has to endure compromises and sacrifices (you and your father especially, but also Nathan, your mother and lastly Stephan) she is constantly moaning and throwing tantrums while being a complete freeloader until her 30s! She antagonizes every person who could help her, all the while not giving a damn about helping others (while they are living their own struggle). The best ending for everyone (and not just for Gloria) is the one where all the chickens come home to roost for her, and she is married by Peletier, this should tell you something.

[Dethlane]

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

Gloria is living a privilieged life and while everyone else in the family is trying to keep the boat afloat and has to endure compromises and sacrifices (you and your father especially, but also Nathan, your mother and lastly Stephan) she is constantly moaning and throwing tantrums while being a complete freeloader until her 30s! She antagonizes every person who could help her, all the while not giving a damn about helping others (while they are living their own struggle). The best ending for everyone (and not just for Gloria) is the one where all the chickens come home to roost for her, and she is married by Peletier, this should tell you something.

Gloria is living a life of being not fully accepted into family, always restricted and reminded that she is just a dirty commoner. She is also harshly prohibited from doing anything that doesn't fit commoner lot, even if her souls lies there. And no one (except, determinantly, player) helps her. Gregor and Stephan always antagonize her, treat her like vermin and try to remove her from family. Lydia removes any possibility for Gloria to express herself. Robert can't decide what matters more to him - family or reputation - until the very end. Nathan... well, he's just Nathan (and actually he is the one who keeps leeching on family by adulthood except when you go priest path and show him the way). And FYI Stephan is the one always moaning about how "Gloria is bad, Gloria gotta go" and throwing tantrums about this, greatly antagonizing Gloria. The best ending is when you reach peace between rebels and empire and make Gloria Brante, she becomes a writer known and renowned across the world (now guess what could've happened if Brantes allowed Gloria to write and she didn't have to do it in full secret).

[Puppyz]

Originally posted by TE Kuraudo:

But that's the thing: she consistently causes problems because "oh I want to write poetry" or "oh, I want to do X against all societal norms which I know will only bring further grief and strife within my family."

Her selfishness is next-level spoiled brat. Gloria is maximum spoiled american #firstWorldProblems while the rest of the world around her suffers in poverty. And then, when a solution is given to her selfish demands to do what she wants, nope it's not good enough for her and the good of the family be dammed. I wish there was an option to quietly remove that embarrassment somehow.

if you conspire to marry her off, does she actually go through with it? I had family unity at 10 after refusing to help either brother or sister scheme, and then she still was set to be married... fine except the c*nt ran off right in front of the groom after acting like a crazy lady. -2 reputation. Selfish B*tch, at least run off before we finalize the wedding after you've been freeloading for god knows how long. All that effort I spent defending that jerk; she's complete scum. Gregor Brante of all people completely vindicated. Author, what are you trying to tell us?

I used mother to influence her (-1 unity), Gloria mentions how he actually loves her and doesn't mind she's not a noble, helps her pursuit everything she wants in life, but she loses inspiration to write because she's not 'oppressed' anymore lol

[Mr. Wiggles]

Originally posted by Dethlane:

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

Gloria is living a privilieged life and while everyone else in the family is trying to keep the boat afloat and has to endure compromises and sacrifices (you and your father especially, but also Nathan, your mother and lastly Stephan) she is constantly moaning and throwing tantrums while being a complete freeloader until her 30s! She antagonizes every person who could help her, all the while not giving a damn about helping others (while they are living their own struggle). The best ending for everyone (and not just for Gloria) is the one where all the chickens come home to roost for her, and she is married by Peletier, this should tell you something.

Gloria is living a life of being not fully accepted into family, always restricted and reminded that she is just a dirty commoner. She is also harshly prohibited from doing anything that doesn't fit commoner lot, even if her souls lies there. And no one (except, determinantly, player) helps her. Gregor and Stephan always antagonize her, treat her like vermin and try to remove her from family. Lydia removes any possibility for Gloria to express herself. Robert can't decide what matters more to him - family or reputation - until the very end. Nathan... well, he's just Nathan (and actually he is the one who keeps leeching on family by adulthood except when you go priest path and show him the way). And FYI Stephan is the one always moaning about how "Gloria is bad, Gloria gotta go" and throwing tantrums about this, greatly antagonizing Gloria. The best ending is when you reach peace between rebels and empire and make Gloria Brante, she becomes a writer known and renowned across the world (now guess what could've happened if Brantes allowed Gloria to write and she didn't have to do it in full secret).

And this should make her special how? I already said everyone in the family has its own problems, 99% of the "humans" have arknians' boots up their asses and a way harsher, shorter and more unjust life than Gloria (Thomas Guerro, hello. Not to mention yourself if you play trying to do the right thing and saving everyone instead of grinding stats).
If you think Gloria would try to help you when you are in danger or put your very own life before her tantrums better think about it twice.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Originally posted by Das Boot:

I have to disagree.

I've had some playthroughs where Sir Brante united the family, and in that event it's made clear that the family has to choose between unity and reputation. Robert chooses family, saying that gossip no longer scares him, and even Stephan comes around. Right after that event Gloria is adopted by Robert.

Indeed, having low reputation never has a cost beyond the opportunity cost of being unable to be ennobled by the sword. What good is ennobling the family if the people in it can't stand each other?

You are actually wrong, you can end up with harmony in your family if you are not a ♥♥♥♥ and convince Gloria to marry Peletier. For some obscure reasons (the authors are trying to blackmail the player into thinking this was not a 100% good outcome), she is never seen again even if you know Peletier and they live in the same city.

[Dethlane]

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

And this should make her special how? I already said everyone in the family has its own problems, 99% of the "humans" have arknians' boots up their asses and a way harsher, shorter and more unjust life than Gloria (Thomas Guerro, hello. Not to mention yourself if you play trying to do the right thing and saving everyone instead of grinding stats).
If you think Gloria would try to help you when you are in danger or put your very own life before her tantrums better think about it twice.

This makes her the victim, not the culprit you're trying to paint her. Most of family members' problems come from their own misdeeds. And "99%" is hella overkill, just you trying to justify blaming Gloria. Especially with the "example" you're given, since Thomas, unlike Gloria, was able to freely pursuit his goals and, if you protect him from Otton (like a true friend), he lives long and happy life. Same goes for the player, you're perfectly capable of finding your own path, like becoming a full noble in spite of your birth lot, helping everyone and in the end brokering peace between rebels and the government.

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

You are actually wrong, you can end up with harmony in your family if you are not a ♥♥♥♥ and convince Gloria to marry Peletier. For some obscure reasons (the authors are trying to blackmail the player into thinking this was not a 100% good outcome), she is never seen again even if you know Peletier and they live in the same city.

Because it's not 100% good outcome. Gloria is forced into the life others chose for her instead of being able to choose for herself and live the life she wants. And whatever harmony there exists is only between remaining members.
UPD: also you are wrong, the only way family is at peace is when everyone including Gloria is alive and at home.

[Mr. Wiggles]

Originally posted by Dethlane:

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

And this should make her special how? I already said everyone in the family has its own problems, 99% of the "humans" have arknians' boots up their asses and a way harsher, shorter and more unjust life than Gloria (Thomas Guerro, hello. Not to mention yourself if you play trying to do the right thing and saving everyone instead of grinding stats).
If you think Gloria would try to help you when you are in danger or put your very own life before her tantrums better think about it twice.

This makes her the victim, not the culprit you're trying to paint her. Most of family members' problems come from their own misdeeds. And "99%" is hella overkill, just you trying to justify blaming Gloria. Especially with the "example" you're given, since Thomas, unlike Gloria, was able to freely pursuit his goals and, if you protect him from Otton (like a true friend), he lives long and happy life. Same goes for the player, you're perfectly capable of finding your own path, like becoming a full noble in spite of your birth lot, helping everyone and in the end brokering peace between rebels and the government.

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

You are actually wrong, you can end up with harmony in your family if you are not a ♥♥♥♥ and convince Gloria to marry Peletier. For some obscure reasons (the authors are trying to blackmail the player into thinking this was not a 100% good outcome), she is never seen again even if you know Peletier and they live in the same city.

Because it's not 100% good outcome. Gloria is forced into the life others chose for her instead of being able to choose for herself and live the life she wants. And whatever harmony there exists is only between remaining members.

lol, I guess people revolted because they were too happy. And now Tommas is not oppressed because you can save him (if you have some resources to spare, granted)?

I never said Gloria is the culprit of anything, but her sole purpose is throwing tantrums and being overall useless while you are struggling to survive (I tried a lotless path without having all the good stats, you should try it to feel how it really feels being oppressed, the only hope for Brante to not get gutted in a dark alley after he was betrayed multiple times was climbing up the social ladder and guess who ♥♥♥♥♥♥ everything up at the last minute).

And do not picture yourself like if you managed to save everybody and they all lived happily forever on a casual run, because everyone and their grandma knows it is not true.

[Radene]

Originally posted by Mr.Wiggles:

I never said Gloria is the culprit of anything, but her sole purpose is throwing tantrums and being overall useless while you are struggling to survive.

You just described the average person in 2021.

Funny how some things never change. Because so many people in the game are also just throwing tantrums and whining when a crisis is looming. Both your brothers, the bickering nobles, the bickering priests...

Something about the human condition.