Adaptive Armor, finally here, much wow

[Kasiornis]

With recent update devs have added a "Payday 2 armor" - Adaptive.
On paper it sounds great, we are actually getting a "regenerating" armor.
The reality, as always, is merciless.

SBZ were so kind to provide us exact numbers.
And now we know that actually all armor variants, no matter Light or Heavy, had the same 25% of enemy Damage Reduction. No matter if you were wearing the light padding or a tank armor - it was the same, which alone is amazing I must say.
The differences were in running speed, chunk regen speed, chunk and "down" amounts.
Yet due to fantastic combat system it was always beneficial to have more armor and Heavy Armor was the only viable option, unless you wanted to make your life harder.

Adaptive Armor has 5%
Out of sheer curiosity I've launched Road Rage Overkill with it equipped and I must say - I had fantastic 4 seconds of life under direct fire, before I've lost all of it completely.
Around month ago in this topic I've voiced my concerns about what Adaptive Armor would be if they leave it as it is.
And I must admit - I was wrong.
It is NOT equivalent to Light Armor. It's actually worse.

Light Armor had 25% Damage Reduction despite having just 2 armor chunks, Adaptive has just 5%, which causing it to die way, way faster than the lightest normal armor available.
Thus forcing you to use Armor Bag, which basically destroys the whole purpose of this wonderfull addition.

EDIT: The massive part of "Armor Problem" was inability to play agressive, to move freely around the map without being forced to camp specific spots to avoid losing it all. Which alone killed A LOT of fun for the players. This Adaptive Armor just reinforces this inability, making the player even more fragile and cowardly, being constantly in fear of losing their precious and very fragile regenerating armor.

So um, yeah. Looking forward for future updates for sure.

[Blues]

are we playing the same game? adaptive armor is extremly good atm and allows u to play aggressively. and u barely need any skills to build around it, just get plate up, replenish and a way to gain and maintain edge and grit. i have done heists solo now where i lose 1 or 2 chunks on overkill. with a full team i dont even lose any chunks.

and on top of that cutting shot got buffed and is really strong. so many weapons got new damage breakpoints because of it. ur horde clear should be good with most weapons now that u kill everything before they can do anything. the only enemy i need to be aware of is the bulldozer since he can still shread armor like its nothing

[Kasiornis]

Originally posted by Blues:

are we playing the same game?

Judging by the words "extremely good" I suggest - we are definitely not.
But hey, if at least one person thinks that severely flawed armor mechanic can be fixed that easily and this will allow you to breeze through the game like there is no tomorrow - then Mio's work wasn't for nothing indeed.

[paganSK]

SEEMS like alot of players missing "dodge" skills from PD2 where u are practically immortal.
For PD3 armor still need buffs

[AsbestosIsPoison]

Originally posted by Kasiornis:

Adaptive Armor has 5%
Out of sheer curiosity I've launched Road Rage Overkill with it equipped and I must say - I had fantastic 4 seconds of life under direct fire, before I've lost all of it completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHwHiymSojk

[AsbestosIsPoison]

Originally posted by AsbestosIsPoison:

Originally posted by Kasiornis:

Adaptive Armor has 5%
Out of sheer curiosity I've launched Road Rage Overkill with it equipped and I must say - I had fantastic 4 seconds of life under direct fire, before I've lost all of it completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHwHiymSojk

Without being toxic, you stood in the open under fire, and got suprised when you died. Literally the same situation would happen with every armour option.

[Walrus-Sama]

You're not supposed to run out in the open when assault is active.

You're supposed to use cover and eliminate threats. Peak, shoot, get back in cover. Repeat. To that end; Adaptive Armor seems much better. If you're careful you can survive an entire assault with 1 full chunk even after being shot several times. 'Normal' armor on the other hand always takes permanent chip damage, and will run out eventually.

[Kasiornis]

Originally posted by AsbestosIsPoison:

Without being toxic, you stood in the open under fire, and got suprised when you died.

You managed to miss the point that I launched heist on OVK on purpose to see how fast it would die compared to other armors.
Full armor. Two chunks. Less than 5 seconds. Roughly 2 seconds per chunk. From 3-4 enemies spawning at start. No specials, no dozer, no techie, just normal enemies at start.
As person above just said - "extremely good".

Originally posted by Walrus-Sama:

You're not supposed to run out in the open when assault is active.
You're supposed to use cover and eliminate threats

This is exactly the problem. I'm not supposed, I'm forced to play this way, otherwise I'll lose. There is no other way to play the game, but this - camping the assault waves, over and over again.

Running from cover to cover while shooting back and doing objectives - was never an issue for Payday game. For PD3 it is.
This kind of mentality of "you're supposed to hide during assault then use 20 seconds you have to do any objective you can" - is one of the main reasons people find combat unfun and lame. And why people have left as well.

But hey, you think it's good, I think it's bad.
Let the reality itself judge who is right and who isn't.
If the game is so good right now - we'll see thousands of active players back in no time.

[Blues]

Originally posted by Kasiornis:

Originally posted by Blues:

are we playing the same game?

Judging by the words "extremely good" I suggest - we are definitely not.
But hey, if at least one person thinks that severely flawed armor mechanic can be fixed that easily and this will allow you to breeze through the game like there is no tomorrow - then Mio's work wasn't for nothing indeed.

i didnt say the new armors design is good, it still have flaws. what im saying is u can play aggressively.

ofc if u just stay in line of fire for too long u will lose this armor fast, however now the game actually rewards u for playing well. all i do with adaptive armor is play similar like i do in pd2, keep track of the 2 sec timer on my armor regen skill (bullseye/plate up) and go back and forth between good cover spots. and if i know i can clear enemies fast enough i do that. if u are good enough with this the adaptive armor is extremely good.

compare that to the other armors in this game u get punished as soon u take any damage. which is unfun and u can brute force ur way through by stacking armor bags, removing a lot of skill from the game. now u can do the same with adaptive armor as well, which is one of the biggest flaws still. however u can actually do "perfect" loud heist now where u dont use any resources if u are good enough. this is actually fun since ur skill matters so much more.

ofc i still would prefer an armor system like pd2, but at least this is better then the boring sit in cover unless u have enough armor to brute force everything we had before. the only thing i hope for now is that the devs see how much better armor regen is and do a fundamental change to armor because of that

[MrBrian]

Originally posted by Kasiornis:

Originally posted by AsbestosIsPoison:

Without being toxic, you stood in the open under fire, and got suprised when you died.

You managed to miss the point that I launched heist on OVK on purpose to see how fast it would die compared to other armors.
Full armor. Two chunks. Less than 5 seconds. Roughly 2 seconds per chunk. From 3-4 enemies spawning at start. No specials, no dozer, no techie, just normal enemies at start.
As person above just said - "extremely good".

Originally posted by Walrus-Sama:

You're not supposed to run out in the open when assault is active.
You're supposed to use cover and eliminate threats

This is exactly the problem. I'm not supposed, I'm forced to play this way, otherwise I'll lose. There is no other way to play the game, but this - camping the assault waves, over and over again.

Running from cover to cover while shooting back and doing objectives - was never an issue for Payday game. For PD3 it is.
This kind of mentality of "you're supposed to hide during assault then use 20 seconds you have to do any objective you can" - is one of the main reasons people find combat unfun and lame. And why people have left as well.

But hey, you think it's good, I think it's bad.
Let the reality itself judge who is right and who isn't.
If the game is so good right now - we'll see thousands of active players back in no time.

Even if it's meant to showcase how fast it can die. It's really poor example of doing it. Of course if you stand wide open and do nothing, your armor is gone. It applies to every armor, no matter if its faster or slower.

The reasons why Payday 3 has an issue where taking cover is more important than other games is because both armor and health is limited. There is no skills that allows you to passively regenerate your health, armor. That's why Armor Bag was meta because armor was most important, without it you would be dead.

The point of Adaptive Armor Lining is to allow fully recover your armor chunk at cost of taking more damage than normal armor. It doesn't fix issue of playing aggresive but makes it so you don't have to worry about trauama or losing armor if played armor.

No one applied that the game is good now. The game still needs alot of fixing before it can restore playerbase.

[Kasiornis]

Originally posted by Blues:

ofc i still would prefer an armor system like pd2, but at least this is better then the boring sit in cover unless u have enough armor to brute force everything we had before. the only thing i hope for now is that the devs see how much better armor regen is and do a fundamental change to armor because of that

You still have to bruteforce everything, Adaptive Armor is way too fragile to be a reliable option on Overkill. You will be inevitably out in the open, inevitably be caught off-guard by random enemies and inevitably lose the armor, very fast. And it all goes back to the same "boring sit in cover".

But yes, it's a first small step in the right direction. Which may be the last. Or take years before devs finally do what they had to do from the beginning.

Originally posted by MrBrian:

Even if it's meant to showcase how fast it can die. It's really poor example of doing it. Of course if you stand wide open and do nothing, your armor is gone. It applies to every armor, no matter if its faster or slower.

Actually - it matters. It directly affects how long you can be in the open and do objectives, before losing an armor chunk (or all of it). The "time it takes to die if you're completely out of cover". THE worst case scenario, which suprisingly is not so rare as it seems.

Because you will need to do objectives and almost all of them are out of cover.
If you can't do them under fire and just die - then the armor is not viable.
Especially with Payday 3 case, where "armor is a resource", very limited.

[5.0 V8 S650 | 0-60 in 3.9 sec]

Originally posted by Walrus-Sama:

You're not supposed to run out in the open when assault is active.

You're supposed to use cover and eliminate threats. Peak, shoot, get back in cover. Repeat. To that end; Adaptive Armor seems much better. If you're careful you can survive an entire assault with 1 full chunk even after being shot several times. 'Normal' armor on the other hand always takes permanent chip damage, and will run out eventually.

High estrogen, soyboi play style. Bring back the run and gun from Payday 2.

[krustylesponge]

i dont usually comment on these kinds of things, but you are judging this armour in the worst heist possible for it while also using it in the worst way possible. The entire strength of the armour is that you can get out of fire for a little bit to fully regenerate your chunk. I played some heists with it and only had a chunk broken by a sniper due to how insanely good the regen of this thing is

[Leah]

The real problem is that Road Rage is one of the worst designed heists in the game, it's Goat Simulator tier, it's a bad test.

[Kasiornis]

Originally posted by krustylesponge:

but you are judging this armour in the worst heist possible for it while also using it in the worst way possible

Not judging - testing. What does armor do? It makes you survive longer, obviously.
But for how long, under direct fire? Not for long. If at any point you are caught off-guard - the consequences are so severe you just lose the whole armor in seconds.
It can be compared to Payday 2, Suit (no armor), on Death Sentence. Only suit usually gives you dodge, and there isn't any here.

Also, where exactly should I test it? Toilet stall in RockTheCradle, where barely anyone can scratch you ever? Will it be a good test if I'm testing survivability and viability under fire?

Originally posted by Leah:

The real problem is that Road Rage is one of the worst designed heists in the game, it's Goat Simulator tier, it's a bad test.

And yes, being shot from all directions at sniper range - is a wonderful and unforgettable experience. In a game where armor is actually a resource...
Yet as survivability test - more than enough. Instant info for how long you will live if you dare to step outside of cover.

Like yeah, by all means if you'll be sitting in a toilet in the corner of the map for each assault - yeah, you'll probably be fine and have amazing time of your life.
Yet Adaptive Armor doesn't solve neither stressful armor management due to its fragility nor an enforced camping due to flawed mechanic itself.
It is more fragile and promotes even more camping.
Direct opposite of what made Payday 2 a fun game.

[Old Shoe]

Originally posted by paganSK:

SEEMS like alot of players missing "dodge" skills from PD2 where u are practically immortal.
For PD3 armor still need buffs

idk how much experience you have with dodge in pd2 but you are never immortal. the most you can get with two piece suit and high concealment is 60% with Rogue.

even if you run Sicario and stand in the smoke you are still only protected for a short time and the smoke blocks your view so your cooldown for it will be long regardless.