Devs Explanation of why Payday 3 Doesn't need an Online network.

[servph]

Hello everyone. I figured a developers perspective on why Payday 3 doesn't require an always online network would be helpful. As seeing as I've worked with this type of business model and have also consulted with project leads each time this gets brought up to move away from it. I feel as if I'd be able to give a more nuanced & in-depth explanation on this topic.

As a former developer for indie studios & some AAA companies, I can definitively say this game doesn't require "Always Online Play". The online connection is simply there as a way to prevent piracy & Cheating, Such as DLC Unlockers. Money, EXP & Skill Cheats (which has so far been in-effective.). And protecting the digital currency they plan on selling.

Profile Data could easily be left on the hosts machine as they could implement a "Sanity Check" style of system where it would scan your save each time you launch the game. Then check to see how money was obtained & How skills were obtained, etc. If it were to detect the user going over the limit of skill-points or seeing a massive spike of money be added into their account without any heist history involved. They could very easily remove the money & or dis-allow the cheater from playing with non cheater marked saves. Another way they could monitor this is by having a separate server hold the profile data & each time the user matchmakes. It would cross-reference the save on the users machine with the one on their server. Then do server side sanity checks in order to see if the user is cheating. I bring that second solution up to be coupled with the first solution, As anyone could easily modify the executable & or modify the game files (depending on where the Sanity Check system is stored) in order to remove it so they could freely use cheated saves online. So this secondary system would prevent that from being an option.

Having always online server architecture is one of the reasons why they can freely remove Denuvo. As its currently not needed. Seeing as all of the authentication for the server is done through their nebula online servers. Using Cross-Play as a reason to need these servers is simply incorrect. All that is needed is a proper connection socket (i.e a port with the game accepting connections). That's it. Consoles are no different than PC's when it comes to handling the game other than how certain code is processed directly on the CPU and how their graphical rendering pipelines are handled. Those differences would not affect Payday's networking at all.


This game could very easily support P2P gaming & offline. As not even the AI & the world itself when playing is on a server. Someone is still a host. Even when doing the tutorial mission. The Tutorial Mission can be played completely offline without any sort of internet connectivity. As it is built into the game & would be very hard to remove single-player / p2p functionality to the point where it would be a deliberate move.


It is a 4 player Co-Op PvE game. Payday 2 was also a "Games as a Service" yet it was still P2P. And it was much more efficient with connectivity as well as overall stability (until the Epic Games Update). All that would even be required for the game in terms of a "server" is a matchmaker. And even at that point we simply do not need nebula accounts for it. As the data for the users profile would be sent to the host rather than keeping on a cloud server which in the end will cost Overkill more money & resources to maintain.


The developers seem really socially un-aware. As many people who live in the rural states as well as different countries don't always have an internet connection. N'or an internet connection that is stable enough to play a game. One of the reasons people play Payday is because you can play it offline without an internet connection.


Another major issue is that with the game being Always Online means that the players saves are on their servers, It will heavily restrict what type of mods we can have. That is going to reduce the longevity of the game. As mods with custom skills, Or mods with custom guns will most likely not work. Which will SIGNIFICANTLY hurt the game within the long run. As Payday's Community & Payday 2 is essentially kept alive by modding. Without modding along side the game itself essentially having an end date as the servers will not be kept up forever means that once the game loses its relevancy & players. Overkill will eventually deem it financially detrimental & Shut off the servers for the game. It has happened to plenty of other games such as Diablo 3. And will happen again if consumers like yourself keep letting these bad business practices stay alive.


Overall this is out of every other issue within Payday 3. The absolute biggest issue there is to this game & franchise if the same practices keeps going forward. The developers within a month or two if they focus on it can easily re-write the backend of Payday 3 to save the profile data on the users local machine as well as being able to be played offline. The only internet connection that will be needed from both a consumer & developer standpoint is a Matchmaking server so you can join other players. If this issue was fixed, Every other issue with this game wouldn't be that bad. But for a non tech / average consumer standpoint. The fact that we cannot play a game we paid for because they decided to include a server for an Co-Op 4 player PvE game where it isn't needed. Is simply un-acceptable and should absolutely NOT be tolerated. There needs to be change or else this franchise is heading in a very dark direction for both the Company as they will end up losing more money than they make. And the community as they will see the game they love so much die.


Now you may be asking yourself. What can you do as a consumer to make your voice heard & get them to change this situation. As with the information and knowledge you currently have. It would be quite easily fixable.


Here's your options to make your voice heard.

1. You can negatively review the game and express your dis-content with the company as well as how the game has been handled. Then demand change.

2. You can contact Steam Support & Ask for a refund. This would be the most detrimental option to Overkill as it would effectively show that they will / are going to lose revenue due to these development decisions.

3. You can voice your discontent on Social Media. Join their discord and express dis-satisfaction on how you feel this is hurting the game. As well as make forum posts & videos about it here and on YouTube. Or other platforms you prefer.

When you complain about the game. Do not threaten developers or the company. As that is Illegal and isn't good for anyone. Make sure to respectfully yet passionately express your dis-satisfaction with the product you received. And demand change.

[REDACTED]

100% agree. Nebula, online only, half a game with a full DLC roadmap.... none of this is what fans wanted. Pure money grab.

I have no respect for money grabbing DLC peddlers.... ESPECIALLY if they cant even manage their company properly despite using scummy tactics like they do. This company deserves to fail. Someone will scoop up the IP and they will try again later. I can wait.

[Noop]

How can you write such a paragraph and not get anything right? Holy cow dude, you realy worked in the industry and you have no clue how this works? Like cmon what.

The game is always online so they can spy on you. That is how marketing is done my obviously very young friend. Neither DLCs or Piracy has anything to do with that and if you think that online servers prevent people from pirating or cheating you have even less braincells than I allready think you do.

[Parmethyst]

Great writeup, it's funny if you consider for the fact that PAYDAY: Crime War, while allows you to login while Nebula, is optional on top of bonus ingame money.

[Big Boss]

If you want to prevent hackers, you simply do what Halo: Reach did, people can hack all they want when offline, but once they connect online their progress is lined up to what the API data is. It's not rocket science.

[Tyrvana]

This is exactly the idea i've had just unable to confirm that cause i have no clue about that stuff. It feels great to actually have someone confirm it and be able to summarize the problem with PD3. Like 70% off the issues are purely becase of online only. If the features was implemented/made like you explained in your post then the game would be great and have everything it needs at a core for a release. Also just giving their account a cheater tag penalty for a few months to a year or so would be enough.
The other 30% can be solved in at least a 3-7month period in addition to mods to make it even better.

[servph]

Originally posted by Noop:

The game is always online so they can spy on you.

An added benefit to having your data is being able to track & spy on u. 🤓

[servph]

Originally posted by Big Boss:

If you want to prevent hackers, you simply do what Halo: Reach did, people can hack all they want when offline, but once they connect online their progress is lined up to what the API data is. It's not rocket science.

Yeah. That's essentially the same idea to a sanity check. It would be much more effective than doing what is currently done now.

[SickTag]

Originally posted by servph:

Hello everyone. I figured a developers perspective on why Payday 3 doesn't require an always online network would be helpful. As seeing as I've worked with this type of business model and have also consulted with project leads each time this gets brought up to move away from it. I feel as if I'd be able to give a more nuanced & in-depth explanation on this topic.

As a former developer for indie studios & some AAA companies, I can definitively say this game doesn't require "Always Online Play". The online connection is simply there as a way to prevent piracy & Cheating, Such as DLC Unlockers. Money, EXP & Skill Cheats (which has so far been in-effective.). And protecting the digital currency they plan on selling.

Profile Data could easily be left on the hosts machine as they could implement a "Sanity Check" style of system where it would scan your save each time you launch the game. Then check to see how money was obtained & How skills were obtained, etc. If it were to detect the user going over the limit of skill-points or seeing a massive spike of money be added into their account without any heist history involved. They could very easily remove the money & or dis-allow the cheater from playing with non cheater marked saves. Another way they could monitor this is by having a separate server hold the profile data & each time the user matchmakes. It would cross-reference the save on the users machine with the one on their server. Then do server side sanity checks in order to see if the user is cheating. I bring that second solution up to be coupled with the first solution, As anyone could easily modify the executable & or modify the game files (depending on where the Sanity Check system is stored) in order to remove it so they could freely use cheated saves online. So this secondary system would prevent that from being an option.

Having always online server architecture is one of the reasons why they can freely remove Denuvo. As its currently not needed. Seeing as all of the authentication for the server is done through their nebula online servers. Using Cross-Play as a reason to need these servers is simply incorrect. All that is needed is a proper connection socket (i.e a port with the game accepting connections). That's it. Consoles are no different than PC's when it comes to handling the game other than how certain code is processed directly on the CPU and how their graphical rendering pipelines are handled. Those differences would not affect Payday's networking at all.


This game could very easily support P2P gaming & offline. As not even the AI & the world itself when playing is on a server. Someone is still a host. Even when doing the tutorial mission. The Tutorial Mission can be played completely offline without any sort of internet connectivity. As it is built into the game & would be very hard to remove single-player / p2p functionality to the point where it would be a deliberate move.


It is a 4 player Co-Op PvE game. Payday 2 was also a "Games as a Service" yet it was still P2P. And it was much more efficient with connectivity as well as overall stability (until the Epic Games Update). All that would even be required for the game in terms of a "server" is a matchmaker. And even at that point we simply do not need nebula accounts for it. As the data for the users profile would be sent to the host rather than keeping on a cloud server which in the end will cost Overkill more money & resources to maintain.


The developers seem really socially un-aware. As many people who live in the rural states as well as different countries don't always have an internet connection. N'or an internet connection that is stable enough to play a game. One of the reasons people play Payday is because you can play it offline without an internet connection.


Another major issue is that with the game being Always Online means that the players saves are on their servers, It will heavily restrict what type of mods we can have. That is going to reduce the longevity of the game. As mods with custom skills, Or mods with custom guns will most likely not work. Which will SIGNIFICANTLY hurt the game within the long run. As Payday's Community & Payday 2 is essentially kept alive by modding. Without modding along side the game itself essentially having an end date as the servers will not be kept up forever means that once the game loses its relevancy & players. Overkill will eventually deem it financially detrimental & Shut off the servers for the game. It has happened to plenty of other games such as Diablo 3. And will happen again if consumers like yourself keep letting these bad business practices stay alive.


Overall this is out of every other issue within Payday 3. The absolute biggest issue there is to this game & franchise if the same practices keeps going forward. The developers within a month or two if they focus on it can easily re-write the backend of Payday 3 to save the profile data on the users local machine as well as being able to be played offline. The only internet connection that will be needed from both a consumer & developer standpoint is a Matchmaking server so you can join other players. If this issue was fixed, Every other issue with this game wouldn't be that bad. But for a non tech / average consumer standpoint. The fact that we cannot play a game we paid for because they decided to include a server for an Co-Op 4 player PvE game where it isn't needed. Is simply un-acceptable and should absolutely NOT be tolerated. There needs to be change or else this franchise is heading in a very dark direction for both the Company as they will end up losing more money than they make. And the community as they will see the game they love so much die.


Now you may be asking yourself. What can you do as a consumer to make your voice heard & get them to change this situation. As with the information and knowledge you currently have. It would be quite easily fixable.


Here's your options to make your voice heard.

1. You can negatively review the game and express your dis-content with the company as well as how the game has been handled. Then demand change.

2. You can contact Steam Support & Ask for a refund. This would be the most detrimental option to Overkill as it would effectively show that they will / are going to lose revenue due to these development decisions.

3. You can voice your discontent on Social Media. Join their discord and express dis-satisfaction on how you feel this is hurting the game. As well as make forum posts & videos about it here and on YouTube. Or other platforms you prefer.

When you complain about the game. Do not threaten developers or the company. As that is Illegal and isn't good for anyone. Make sure to respectfully yet passionately express your dis-satisfaction with the product you received. And demand change.

People are already using cheats in this game, so yeah, it's not to keep people from cheating

[doublejesus]

What a long winded post when you could of just said money.

[candles]

tldr? seems like copy of chatgtp

[b0nehead]

Hello everyone. I wanted to offer a developer's perspective on why Payday 3 may not necessarily require an always online network. Drawing from my experience in the gaming industry, working with both indie studios and AAA companies, I believe I can provide a more nuanced and in-depth explanation of this topic.

First and foremost, the online connection in Payday 3 seems primarily aimed at preventing piracy, cheating, and protecting the digital currency they plan to sell. One way to achieve this without always online servers is by implementing a "Sanity Check" system. This system could scan a player's save file each time they launch the game, analyzing how money and skills were obtained. If any irregularities are detected, such as an excessive number of skill points or a sudden influx of money, the system could take appropriate actions, like removing the ill-gotten gains or restricting the player from joining non-cheater-marked servers.

Another approach could involve having a separate server hold profile data and cross-referencing it with the player's local save file during matchmaking, allowing server-side checks to detect cheaters. This secondary system could work in conjunction with the Sanity Check, making it harder for players to tamper with the game files.

Importantly, having an always online server architecture might render Denuvo unnecessary, as all authentication can be done through the nebula online servers. Cross-play compatibility should not depend on always online servers, as all that's required is a proper connection socket, which is a standard feature for both consoles and PCs.

Payday 3 could easily support player-to-player (P2P) gaming and offline play since even in multiplayer games, one player acts as the host. The tutorial mission can already be played completely offline, showcasing that offline play is feasible and should be preserved.

The decision to make the game always online appears to overlook the fact that not everyone has a stable internet connection, especially in rural areas or different countries. One of Payday's appeals has always been its offline mode, allowing players to enjoy the game without an internet connection.

Furthermore, an always online game architecture would limit the types of mods available, potentially reducing the game's longevity. Custom skills and weapons mods might not function, which could hurt the game in the long run. Payday's community has thrived on modding, and without it, the game could face a shorter lifespan.

In conclusion, the biggest issue with Payday 3 appears to be the decision to make it always online. Developers could rework the game's backend to allow profile data to be stored locally and support offline play. The only necessary online component would be a matchmaking server. If this issue is addressed, many other concerns with the game would become more manageable.

As consumers, there are several ways to voice our concerns and potentially drive change:

Leave negative reviews for the game and express dissatisfaction with the company's decisions while demanding change.

Contact support platforms like Steam and request refunds, which could have a significant impact on the developer's revenue.

Engage with social media, join the game's community platforms, and express your concerns respectfully but passionately through forum posts, videos, and other preferred platforms.

Remember, it's crucial to maintain a respectful tone when voicing your discontent and focus on demanding positive changes rather than making threats or engaging in illegal activities. Our collective voice can influence the direction of the franchise and ensure a brighter future for both the developers and the community.

[Random]

Originally posted by servph:

Hello everyone. I figured a developers perspective on why Payday 3 doesn't require an always online network would be helpful. As seeing as I've worked with this type of business model and have also consulted with project leads each time this gets brought up to move away from it. I feel as if I'd be able to give a more nuanced & in-depth explanation on this topic.

As a former developer for indie studios & some AAA companies, I can definitively say this game doesn't require "Always Online Play". The online connection is simply there as a way to prevent piracy & Cheating, Such as DLC Unlockers. Money, EXP & Skill Cheats (which has so far been in-effective.). And protecting the digital currency they plan on selling.

Profile Data could easily be left on the hosts machine as they could implement a "Sanity Check" style of system where it would scan your save each time you launch the game. Then check to see how money was obtained & How skills were obtained, etc. If it were to detect the user going over the limit of skill-points or seeing a massive spike of money be added into their account without any heist history involved. They could very easily remove the money & or dis-allow the cheater from playing with non cheater marked saves. Another way they could monitor this is by having a separate server hold the profile data & each time the user matchmakes. It would cross-reference the save on the users machine with the one on their server. Then do server side sanity checks in order to see if the user is cheating. I bring that second solution up to be coupled with the first solution, As anyone could easily modify the executable & or modify the game files (depending on where the Sanity Check system is stored) in order to remove it so they could freely use cheated saves online. So this secondary system would prevent that from being an option.

Having always online server architecture is one of the reasons why they can freely remove Denuvo. As its currently not needed. Seeing as all of the authentication for the server is done through their nebula online servers. Using Cross-Play as a reason to need these servers is simply incorrect. All that is needed is a proper connection socket (i.e a port with the game accepting connections). That's it. Consoles are no different than PC's when it comes to handling the game other than how certain code is processed directly on the CPU and how their graphical rendering pipelines are handled. Those differences would not affect Payday's networking at all.


This game could very easily support P2P gaming & offline. As not even the AI & the world itself when playing is on a server. Someone is still a host. Even when doing the tutorial mission. The Tutorial Mission can be played completely offline without any sort of internet connectivity. As it is built into the game & would be very hard to remove single-player / p2p functionality to the point where it would be a deliberate move.


It is a 4 player Co-Op PvE game. Payday 2 was also a "Games as a Service" yet it was still P2P. And it was much more efficient with connectivity as well as overall stability (until the Epic Games Update). All that would even be required for the game in terms of a "server" is a matchmaker. And even at that point we simply do not need nebula accounts for it. As the data for the users profile would be sent to the host rather than keeping on a cloud server which in the end will cost Overkill more money & resources to maintain.


The developers seem really socially un-aware. As many people who live in the rural states as well as different countries don't always have an internet connection. N'or an internet connection that is stable enough to play a game. One of the reasons people play Payday is because you can play it offline without an internet connection.


Another major issue is that with the game being Always Online means that the players saves are on their servers, It will heavily restrict what type of mods we can have. That is going to reduce the longevity of the game. As mods with custom skills, Or mods with custom guns will most likely not work. Which will SIGNIFICANTLY hurt the game within the long run. As Payday's Community & Payday 2 is essentially kept alive by modding. Without modding along side the game itself essentially having an end date as the servers will not be kept up forever means that once the game loses its relevancy & players. Overkill will eventually deem it financially detrimental & Shut off the servers for the game. It has happened to plenty of other games such as Diablo 3. And will happen again if consumers like yourself keep letting these bad business practices stay alive.


Overall this is out of every other issue within Payday 3. The absolute biggest issue there is to this game & franchise if the same practices keeps going forward. The developers within a month or two if they focus on it can easily re-write the backend of Payday 3 to save the profile data on the users local machine as well as being able to be played offline. The only internet connection that will be needed from both a consumer & developer standpoint is a Matchmaking server so you can join other players. If this issue was fixed, Every other issue with this game wouldn't be that bad. But for a non tech / average consumer standpoint. The fact that we cannot play a game we paid for because they decided to include a server for an Co-Op 4 player PvE game where it isn't needed. Is simply un-acceptable and should absolutely NOT be tolerated. There needs to be change or else this franchise is heading in a very dark direction for both the Company as they will end up losing more money than they make. And the community as they will see the game they love so much die.


Now you may be asking yourself. What can you do as a consumer to make your voice heard & get them to change this situation. As with the information and knowledge you currently have. It would be quite easily fixable.


Here's your options to make your voice heard.

1. You can negatively review the game and express your dis-content with the company as well as how the game has been handled. Then demand change.

2. You can contact Steam Support & Ask for a refund. This would be the most detrimental option to Overkill as it would effectively show that they will / are going to lose revenue due to these development decisions.

3. You can voice your discontent on Social Media. Join their discord and express dis-satisfaction on how you feel this is hurting the game. As well as make forum posts & videos about it here and on YouTube. Or other platforms you prefer.

When you complain about the game. Do not threaten developers or the company. As that is Illegal and isn't good for anyone. Make sure to respectfully yet passionately express your dis-satisfaction with the product you received. And demand change.

Says the guy with multiple VAC Bans.
If you want to fact check my knowledge, you can read my posts.
You, of all people, should be hammered with redundant online checks.

[servph]

Originally posted by Random:

Says the guy with multiple VAC Bans.
If you want to fact check my knowledge, you can read my posts.
You, of all people, should be hammered with redundant online checks. [/quote]

2 Vac bans? Oh no! 😱

Also its a PvE Co-Op game. Cheating doesn't matter. And u can also kick cheaters. As well as "redundant online checks" also affect you. So if the servers go down. Neither of us can play. Please use your brain before posting 😂👍

[󠁳 ⁧Walter White Yo]

payday 3 does need online network for the planned microtransactions 🤡

[servph]

Originally posted by 󠁳 ⁧♡cod waifu:

payday 3 does need online network for the planned microtransactions 🤡

Offline servers will be a paid DLC. 30 dollars pls 🤡🤣