驱逐舰:U型艇猎手 - Destroyer: The U-Boat Hunter

驱逐舰:U型艇猎手 - Destroyer: The U-Boat Hunter

Manstein 2024 年 4 月 17 日 下午 4:22
THIS GAME IS SO BAD...
WHY ARE U-BOATS SKIMMING AROUND LIKE FIRE FLIES UNDER THE SEA? DO YOU KNOW THAT A TYPE vii TAKES 2.5 MINUETS TO MAKE A COMPLETE 180 TURN? FIX THIS CRAP....
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正在显示第 1 - 15 条,共 35 条留言
trooperrob 2024 年 4 月 18 日 下午 1:16 
I did wonder why at full left / right rudder I still couldn't get my nose onto a U-boat.
Manstein 2024 年 4 月 18 日 下午 2:14 
yup. I was so frustrated. I like the game. Its good fun. But i had a really bad time of 4 U-Boats attacking and this pesky sub was spinning circles around me...every 10 seconds when the sonar contact alerted me of its presence, it would skip 20-30 degree or more. I would JUST get close to the last heading on Standard Speed when the bloody sub would jump another 30 degrees and all that at 300-500 yards. At best they do 7 knots underwater. And that is crazy high speed making lots of noise. Silent running (as they would when hunted) would be about 2-3 knots. Even at say 8-10 knots that is still much slower than a destroyer, and the time it takes to turn a sub is crazy long...say at Half Speed and at 32 degree max rudder its turn diameter is like 254 meters. (Page 17)

https://www.uboatarchive.net/Manual/Manual.htm
Sgt Habu 2024 年 4 月 19 日 下午 10:33 
I think the turn diameter you want is 205 m for LF (low-forward?) submerged on page 18; the LF speed range of 3.0-4.5 kn (page 14) corresponds to the in-game submerged U-boat speed of 4 kn. This compares with the Fletcher's fixed in-game turn diameter of 424.73 m (std. deviation 0.17 m), which I derived from video-captures of turn-rate at all forward speeds (radius = speed/turn-rate). Therefore the Fletcher's turn diameter should be around twice that of the U-boat.

That said, I think you do have a point as the U-boats in-game seem to turn much tighter than a 200 m turn diameter would suggest - perhaps more like 100 m. They also seem to have different manoeuvring modes and just switch between them with an instantaneous heading change. For an experiment, when a U-boat is closing on the convoy, plot a line from its last position on the DRT on the U-boat heading from the contact board after each update; the contact board's heading will initially be completely different, then suddenly the U-boat's position will be marked on the line from the previous plotted position along the previous heading from the contact board. I still can't figure out how a U-boat could really follow a path from the time 20 plot to the second (as in after first) 22 mark in this DRT capture (also note that the line I plotted was from the contact board's U-boat heading).

Also, thanks for posting the manual! :steamthumbsup:
最后由 Sgt Habu 编辑于; 2024 年 4 月 19 日 下午 10:45
EmotionallyBroken 2024 年 4 月 28 日 下午 4:20 
Better realism of such things would be a nice option
Bobby 2024 年 4 月 29 日 上午 5:34 
This is what killed it for me with the demo.

I was just checking back to see if any improvements after a year or so. Clearly not.
Back to UBOAT and Enigma Rising Tide
Agent Orange 2024 年 5 月 2 日 下午 3:17 
I think you mistake the movement of your ship with the sub´s movement. If you check the contacts, a dived sub will be around 4 kn slow and barely move at all. But you on the other hand move with 25 kn, so 21 kn relative to the sub and when you turn, it looks like the sub is turning. Test it in a bathtub, you move away from a swimming object cuz you passed it and then start turning. You will miss and move in a circle around it. On the sonar, it looks like the sub is turning constantly while in fact it is you.

So how to "catch" that barely moving sub? You move forward a bit like 10 seconds ingame (the game is way too fast paced), making some distance (around 1 km), then you start turning and close in right behind the sub and move aligned on its course. When you are very close (400 yards) you go to 1/3 speed and wait until you are above the sub.

Use the waterbombs now that you are above the sub and moving in its path, you can bomb the sub several times this way.
Sgt Habu 2024 年 5 月 3 日 上午 12:06 
Agent Orange, the DRT plot is 'frozen' in space; the DRT plot of the submarine is NOT relative to the ship's position and the ship's position is also plotted. We are not confusing the movement of the submarine with the movement of the ship.

As for tactics, I maintain 25 kn and work out an intercept on where the submarine is going to be when my depth charges arrive using DRT, plotting submarine heading on it from the contact board and TRR for the drop.
trooperrob 2024 年 5 月 3 日 上午 4:07 
Agent, I did consider that, but I don't think that is it. Will try again, but fairly sure the sub seemed more agile than it should be.
I thought the biggest issue early war was that there was a dead zone, and poor training,lack escorts/ lack sonar.
Later, once they started using a creeper to keep track with the sub, and another to attack, it became almost impossible to escape once found by a good team.
Agent Orange 2024 年 5 月 3 日 下午 3:03 
Yeah, give it another try and stay in a straight course for 10 seconds, making around 1000 yards from the target. Then you can engage again and will have a clear attack path. The Uboat will almost be standing still.

And another thing, set the radar to relative and DRT to 1:100. Then ignore the DRT and mainly use the OSC to track the sub. It will be very easy to maneuver into position and keep track of the uboat now.
最后由 Agent Orange 编辑于; 2024 年 5 月 3 日 下午 3:05
Sgt Habu 2024 年 5 月 3 日 下午 10:13 
The U-boat in reality turns tighter than a Fletcher destroyer per the link to the U-boat manual that Manstein posted above. Also, as Manstein and I pointed out earlier, the U-boat in the game turns tighter than it should in reality.

I'd also suggest ignoring the OSC (I never use it), set SONAR to true bearing and concentrating on the DRT, that way you can see where both the U-boat and destroyer are going and if it is even possible to turn onto the sub. The repeater on the bridge is also useful in this respect as it updates every 5 s, compared with 25 s on the DRT.
sonarman 2024 年 5 月 11 日 上午 10:09 
The problem really is that in realty Fletcher class destroyers had a terrible turning circle and really were not great ASW platforms.
最后由 sonarman 编辑于; 2024 年 5 月 11 日 上午 10:10
sonarman 2024 年 5 月 11 日 下午 3:35 
Actually for the VIIC its 1 m 10 secs to 2m35 secs depending on trim condition and speed setting.

Fletcher class destroyers had a tactical diameter of 950 yards hard over at 30 kts
A VIIc's tactical diameter hard over is around 295 yards.

On the Fletcher class destroyer The Pacific war online encyclopedia states
"One notable weakness of the class was its poor maneuverability, and it was claimed that even an Iowa-class battleship could out turn a Fletcher. Subsequent destroyer classes adopted twin rudders to improve the turning radius."

"The Type VIIC U-boat was renowned for its maneuverability, especially considering its size and the technology of the time. To enhance its agility, twin rudders were fitted directly behind the propellers, which allowed for a better turning radius"

In the course of ww2 in the Pacific 175 the Fletchers sunk a total of just 29 Japanese submarines.

The Smaller Destroyer Escorts were better at sub hunting most famously the USS England which sank 12 Japanese subs by herself .

DEs sank 68 Japanese subs in wwii. In the Atlantic Flower class corvettes sank 50 u-boats in wwii whilst the allies as a whole sank 783 U-boats in total in the Atlantic in WWII, the US sank 12 through aircraft action and 41 through ship based ASW.

"The Fletcher-class destroyers primarily used active sonar systems during World War II. The standard Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) sonar installed on these destroyers was the QC series, which was an active sonar system" .... therefore running silent was probably not the best UBoat tactic.

So the game is probably more reaiistic than you imagine, a DE or Flower class might have been a more balanced choice of platform gameplay wise.

最后由 sonarman 编辑于; 2024 年 5 月 11 日 下午 4:24
Sgt Habu 2024 年 5 月 12 日 上午 12:49 
Sonarman, I also saw the reference to 'Tactical diameter: 950 yards at 30 knots.'[1], but having researched tactical diameter (Td) it isn't clear if they mean a 30 kn entry speed or maintain 30 kn through the turn. In reality, if you turn hard at 30 kn you will definitely not maintain 30 kn, but this means that the Td greatly exceeds the current International Maritime Organisation requirement of Td < 5 x length of the ship [2] - for the Fletcher this would be 627.4 yards (overall length) [1]. The quoted diameter makes more sense if they mean maintaining 30 kn, but then it isn't quite the same as tactical diameter per [2].

Also, I did mention above that the U-boats in the game turn way harder than the submerged tactical diameter of 205 m [3], and indeed do sometimes seem to change heading instantaneously (see above for detail). The Fletcher's constant turn diameter seems, however, to be a reasonable compromise considering the complexity required to simulate ship dynamics.

References:
  1. https://destroyerhistory.org/fletcherclass/index.asp?pid=200
  2. https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-architecture/different-types-of-manoeuvres-of-a-vessel/
  3. https://www.uboatarchive.net/Manual/Manual.htm (OP Manstein)
最后由 Sgt Habu 编辑于; 2024 年 5 月 12 日 上午 12:49
sonarman 2024 年 5 月 12 日 上午 3:09 
Thanks Sgt Habu very informative, highly unlikely they would be subchasing at 30 knots even with active sonar mind you and as you say there would definitely be a large speed drop off in a turn like that. I think the Fletch was not a great choice for a U-Boat hunting game in the North Atlantic but understand it's inclusion from the game development point of view in terms of being a stepping stone to a more wide reaching Pacific Destroyer sim (Please Iron Wolf :))
最后由 sonarman 编辑于; 2024 年 5 月 12 日 上午 3:10
JDM Ghymkana 2024 年 5 月 21 日 上午 6:17 
2
Guys .. have some respect, have you ever thought about the small team of devs, who come check out what is said about their game, and the first thing they see is "IT'S SO BAD".

Y'all want more game in the niche naval warfare genre, but when people actually try something, you are the first to tear it into pieces, bunch of stupid kids i swear.
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发帖日期: 2024 年 4 月 17 日 下午 4:22
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