gnomes are kinda ridiculous

[killtastic201]

seriously on some maps you literally can't move forward because there is ten thousand of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ gnomes shooting that corny ass bramble spell at you. it's kinda ridiculous if the maps are nothing but endless mazes of choke points and your fighting gnomes. you literally can't GET to the spawners without a teleport which early game is extremely valuable. I just had my game get soft locked in a endless fight between regenerating clay wolves and gnomes. they need to have that ability changed to have like a 1 turn cooldown so that you can actually progress instead of get soft locked by cheesy spam.

[eb]

Originally posted by killtastic201:

they need to have that ability changed to have like a 1 turn cooldown so that you can actually progress instead of get soft locked by cheesy spam.

no

[Aristocratic Cthulhu]

And this is why you don't go to fields with gnomes if you don't have the tools to deal with them.

[dof_man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n3pFFPSlW4

[killtastic201]

of course you all react like children. what more could I expect? LMAO DEAD MEME VIDEO HUR HUR HUR!

[killtastic201]

Originally posted by eb:

Originally posted by killtastic201:

they need to have that ability changed to have like a 1 turn cooldown so that you can actually progress instead of get soft locked by cheesy spam.

no

Yes

[Cheshire]

Okay, overractions aside, Gnomes do seem a bit overtuned. I've lost several decent runs to just 1-3 of them rapidly turning the battlefield into an impassable quagmire, that constantly batters down me and my minions.
Area-effect spells are barely a counter, since they regrow the thorns almost as fast as you can place them. And their 1 shield hinders you from effectively focusing them.
A 1-turn cooldown would be quite reasonable, along with a non-cooldown basic attack. It would still leave them with their identity as a field-clogging nuisance.

[eb]

nobody would be complaining if it was "thorn dragons" or "quagmire fiends" instead of gnomes. while y'all have grown complacent, too used to preconceived notions of gnomes as harmless little fellows ready to be slaughtered as no more than wimpy low tier enemies... the gnomes were plotting their revenge.

[Cheshire]

Originally posted by eb:

nobody would be complaining if it was "thorn dragons" or "quagmire fiends" instead of gnomes. while y'all have grown complacent, too used to preconceived notions of gnomes as harmless little fellows ready to be slaughtered as no more than wimpy low tier enemies... the gnomes were plotting their revenge.

In case there's any seriousness to your argument: People would be complaining if a dozen Thorn Dragons spawned on level 4.

[eb]

Originally posted by Cheshire:

Originally posted by eb:

nobody would be complaining if it was "thorn dragons" or "quagmire fiends" instead of gnomes. while y'all have grown complacent, too used to preconceived notions of gnomes as harmless little fellows ready to be slaughtered as no more than wimpy low tier enemies... the gnomes were plotting their revenge.

In case there's any seriousness to your argument: People would be complaining if a dozen Thorn Dragons spawned on level 4.

you caught me, there isn't. I'm taking these complaints exactly as seriously as they deserve.

if you really want a serious comment: gnomes aren't particularly worse than any other "nasty" level 4 enemies, some builds are just terrible at dealing with certain things. you and OP mentioned summons, summons are notoriously bad against gnomes (slower than average so they might not out-damage the thorns spawning, and often unable to focus on priority targets if there's something in the way). don't pick realms populated by things that counter your spells, don't fight the thorns instead of just killing the gnomes, etc.

[dof_man]

softlocking itself isn't an argument because softlocking is pretty much expected when most enemies have 100% immunities and your characters having limited resources
making a build that can deal with different types of enemies isn't a recommendation, it's a requirement
softlocking on gnomes isn't any worse than softlocking on a vampire mist because you went 100% physical
and summoners aren't "bad against gnomes" when most of the summons in the game actually either fly or have AOE damage, it's just that if you decide to use wolves or bears and not get a secondary skill or not check on enemies before entering rift then it's 100% your fault. You could have chosen a different rift, put a single point in fireball (oh the horror) or upgrade your pets differently. Lots of choices here.
There's literally a challenge to win the game with wolf alone. It's a physical pet that has no AOE. And people including myself have won with it.

[eb]

Originally posted by Chen:

and summoners aren't "bad against gnomes" when most of the summons in the game actually either fly or have AOE damage, it's just that if you decide to use wolves or bears and not get a secondary skill or not check on enemies before entering rift then it's 100% your fault.

You see, I was trying to avoid outright telling them it's their fault, because the kind of player who takes the time to write an angry post demanding that gnomes be nerfed instead of analyzing their mistakes and figuring out how to improve at the game isn't exactly the kind of player that takes kindly to being told it's their fault that they lost. "I was softlocked" is their way of coping with having screwed up in about three or four different ways. In their mind, their choices were perfect and there was nothing they could have done better, and the game just decided that they weren't allowed to win because the developer is mean and deliberately made an unfair game.

Anyway, even wolf can have (kind of) AOE with something like prince of ruin, that would have dealt with the gnomes nicely by absolutely demolishing the thorns (and the gnomes too).

[RIB BLUP]

Yeah, this is all just Rift Wizard 101. The first thing I tried to play was wolves as well. I learned right off the bat to avoid gnomes, slimes and ghosts. Scouting the maps and looking at what you're fighting next is like the most crucial part of the game.

[Buguinho]

I've had a similar experience with slimes. Rift full of deadly badass enemies promptly dealt with but I failed to notice the humble slime rancher goblin who swiftly flooded the entire screen. Had I just paid more attention or picked up Restless Dead, that run could just have been a win.

Yes, some enemies have annoying skills and can put a hard stop to your run. You need to either prepare, avoid them or accept the odds of losing. It's not hard to deal with gnomes: you can use any form of crowd control (blindness, freeze, stun), swarm them with minions, explode them with AoE. The gnome's actually have only range 4, anything further from that gives you free turns to deal with them.

[killtastic201]

Originally posted by Cheshire:

Okay, overractions aside, Gnomes do seem a bit overtuned. I've lost several decent runs to just 1-3 of them rapidly turning the battlefield into an impassable quagmire, that constantly batters down me and my minions.
Area-effect spells are barely a counter, since they regrow the thorns almost as fast as you can place them. And their 1 shield hinders you from effectively focusing them.
A 1-turn cooldown would be quite reasonable, along with a non-cooldown basic attack. It would still leave them with their identity as a field-clogging nuisance.

this. atleast someone gets it. I'm not asking for them to be gutted, they just need to be tuned down a little so I don't get soft locked if I bring the "wrong build". it gets to the point that it's just infinity vs infinity.

Originally posted by Buguinho:

I've had a similar experience with slimes. Rift full of deadly badass enemies promptly dealt with but I failed to notice the humble slime rancher goblin who swiftly flooded the entire screen. Had I just paid more attention or picked up Restless Dead, that run could just have been a win.

Yes, some enemies have annoying skills and can put a hard stop to your run. You need to either prepare, avoid them or accept the odds of losing. It's not hard to deal with gnomes: you can use any form of crowd control (blindness, freeze, stun), swarm them with minions, explode them with AoE. The gnome's actually have only range 4, anything further from that gives you free turns to deal with them.

I just got soft locked by fire slimes on wave 13. this game has a problem with soft locks. I had the spider queen spawning infinite metal spiders with reincarnation am immunity to fire, and the fire slimes spawning infinite fire slimes with immunity to poison and immunity to physical... I'm literally having to abandon multiple runs because the game is breaking itself with wars of literally endless wars attrition.

[killtastic201]

Originally posted by eb:

Originally posted by Chen:

and summoners aren't "bad against gnomes" when most of the summons in the game actually either fly or have AOE damage, it's just that if you decide to use wolves or bears and not get a secondary skill or not check on enemies before entering rift then it's 100% your fault.

You see, I was trying to avoid outright telling them it's their fault, because the kind of player who takes the time to write an angry post demanding that gnomes be nerfed instead of analyzing their mistakes and figuring out how to improve at the game isn't exactly the kind of player that takes kindly to being told it's their fault that they lost. "I was softlocked" is their way of coping with having screwed up in about three or four different ways. In their mind, their choices were perfect and there was nothing they could have done better, and the game just decided that they weren't allowed to win because the developer is mean and deliberately made an unfair game.

Anyway, even wolf can have (kind of) AOE with something like prince of ruin, that would have dealt with the gnomes nicely by absolutely demolishing the thorns (and the gnomes too).

this is the kind of player who refuses to admit when the game has a disgustingly bad design element. this is the kind of player who will be a boot licking worm, to any developer because it's all he knows. the kind of player who can't "think critically" about anything. It's not my fault the game has a problem with soft locking players in infinite wars of attrition. it's nearly happened 3 times in the same run I just finished. slimes with infinite healing, minions that spam shield health onto everything, satyrs that infintely support each other. games are not supposed to softlock you. this game attempts to soft lock you constantly. that should be pretty clear to anyone who's paying attention