[Feedback] Learn from ONI.

[Dart]

This game is often compared with Oxygen Not Included (ONI), but these are 2 fundamentally different games. At the same time I believe MOM can greatly improve its attractiveness and replayability if you analyse what exactly makes ONI so popular and replayable. Please let me present my view on that difference and hopefully inspire MOM devs with ideas for future updates.

Core mechanics.
ONI has several core mechanics that allow players to solve given problems in a very different ways. Those mechanics are also a source of challenges. Examples: gravity (gas / liquid management), temperature (and as result the need for different materials, insulation, etc.), power (the need to produce and deliver power), oxygen (obviously), food. There are also less impactful ones like germs and radiation.
All those mechanics allow players to solve challenges in a very different ways - that creates replaybility and nurtures creativity. For example there are at least 5 ways you can produce oxygen. Numerous ways to generate power. Making Sleet Wheat farm is a considerable challenge that requires a lot of creativity and effort (if you want to make it sustainable).
With MOM I just don't see similar mechanics. Room tags, lighting and food are the only ones coming to my mind. But take, say, food - there are no special requirements to grow a particular plant. It doesn't really matter where do you put your planter box as long as there is light (sun / moon). With rooms it doesn't matter where or how you put furniture or luxury items (as long as requirements are met). And those room tags are now easily "solved" with columns, double floors/walls, etc.
As an idea, you could introduce something like "power" from ONI. A resource that is required to run certain buildings. And in MOM you may have much more variety as you may have specialised elemental powers. What if Dragon Wok requires constant source of Fire power to operate? With this mechanic in place you now may have sources of power that can be researched / built / found as a battle rewards. You can research / build "batteries" to store that power. You can have furniture items that distribute that power to a certain range. And now you may start thinking - hm... may be I need to put this Fire Generator Artifact (which I gained from defeating a Burrowing Lava Thing) between those 2 floors so it can power both my kitchen and this Phoenix Kiss farm. Right now everything in MOM is "powered" by manual labour. This is like if in ONI the only source of electricity would have been the Manual Generators.

Resource scarcity.
In ONI resources are quite limited (at the beginning). That scarcity forces exploration and expansion. Another thing is that resources are consumed by the buildings. So if you will be doing nothing - your dupes will starve or suffocate. (There is also a waste management mechanic, but hey this post is already too big). Different biomes (or starting locations) will give you different sets of resources to work with, forcing you to try different solutions to solve common problems (food / oxygen).
In MOM resources are free (and the same). Even things like stone or iron become a non-issue the moment you build a pig. I just see no incentive to explore / expand. Devs had to introduce that "Corrupted Mana Latern" event to nudge the exploration, but hey, I can still ignore it by creating a House Commons. I am not sure how to solve this issue, to be honest, because you might need "free" resources to counter a constant fog pressure. If they will be limited and you can't find a way to sustainably re-create them - you lose.

Thoughts?

[Ghostlight]

I wish MoM would help me by telling what to do at the very start. ANYTHING would be helpful. I am staring at 4 teachers and I have no clue what to do next. For a game this complex, this is unacceptable.

[n3mes1s]

lol. Whatever... videogames are not for you dude. The game tells you nothing because there is nothing to tell. Its incredibly simple. If you cant get the handle of it without any extensive tutorial... better go find something else as a hobby.

[Wakazu]

GOD PLEASE NO.
ONI is horrible as far as basebuilders go. It is a cumbersome, convoluted mess of a game, it has no safety net, very poor automation, an abomination of an AI that sometimes just stops working for no reason at all, and a complete lack of any info-system, like, ONI is a kind of game you play with a wiki opened on a second monitor.
I mean, if you have fun editing MSExel spreadsheets - then sure, ONI might scratch that itch.
But if you prefer to actualy have fun playing games - stay away from that wreck.
And I sure hope MoM developers WON'T ever take any pages from that game's book.

[Strygald]

Originally posted by Wakazu:

GOD PLEASE NO.
ONI is horrible as far as basebuilders go. It is a cumbersome, convoluted mess of a game, it has no safety net, very poor automation, an abomination of an AI that sometimes just stops working for no reason at all, and a complete lack of any info-system, like, ONI is a kind of game you play with a wiki opened on a second monitor.
I mean, if you have fun editing MSExel spreadsheets - then sure, ONI might scratch that itch.
But if you prefer to actualy have fun playing games - stay away from that wreck.
And I sure hope MoM developers WON'T ever take any pages from that game's book.

personal opinion ONLY, most ONI reviews are positive, like, 97% out of over 100k reviews...

you are obviously in the tiny minority there

Myself, I enjoyed ONI for over 3000 hours, i've gotten bored of MOM after less than 100 hours.. just not even seeing any major updates coming out of this early access

[n3mes1s]

Originally posted by Strygald:

Myself, I enjoyed ONI for over 3000 hours, i've gotten bored of MOM after less than 100 hours.. just not even seeing any major updates coming out of this early access

Agree. I dont really like the art style of ONI at all, but i played it for a long time... its a nice game. And i didnt need any wiki btw. The problem with MoM is that, not only it lacks of end-game content (and by now i guess the devs dont plan to add it at all) but every single update is making the game worst! and there is a terrible lack of balance in resources that the devs keep changing it for no reason at all. Im not completely bored of MoM but im really close to it. One of the things that definitely took one big chunk of my enjoyment has been the new broom racks. I mean wtf is that... we asked for PORTALS since eons ago not something you need a whole room to put it and cant even be used for important things, like the mage's hermitage. These kind of things make me sad because the devs dont really have a clue what they doing.

Depends on the next two updates. Lets see if the devs wake up or they keep destroying this game.

[Steven13527]

I shall ask, are you doing this in the normal difficulty, because in darkness descends the corrupt mana lanterns are a pain in the ass, especially if two of them pop up.. it can basically kill your run if you already explored ahead of time simply because the enemies are too strong for what you have that unless you specialize for a particular area that players will not be able to tell casually because theres no bestiary telling em what to expect.

[Basti]

ONI is so extremely boring. Having to play with spreadsheets, calculator and wiki is beyond dull. I couldn't bring myself to even play 100 hours in that slogfest.
I'm so glad MoM doesn't go down that route. MoM is a different game for a different audience and I hope they keep it that way.

[PyroMancer]

ONI I think appeals to a slightly different audience. It's more focused on factory type base setup as other than the goal of building rockets it's primary concern is on sustainability. You need to manage the income from gysers to support your population while managing their needs and the environment. The ultimate goal is basically to setup a walk away and colony where everything is balanced.

MOM on the other hand is a magic school which you are expect to have a rotating roster of students and teachers. With the creeping fog that is constantly needing to be repelled. So it's not really meant to be a game you setup and forgot. Especially with how different students have different wants and needs.

I don't think MOM should focus resource management/sustainability the way ONI does but instead lean into it's theme. Create more unique challenges for the students/staff. Fill out customizing your wizards. Maybe have portals to mini dungeons to conquer like how some areas of the underground required multiple fights in a row. I think they should focus more on this sort of thing over resource management.